Just when you think you've seen it all

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damooster

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I am continuing my journey (attempt to attend Mass at every parish in the diocese, see link in signature) and today I went to a notoriously progressive parish. As always, I try to just concentrate on Mass so that I can participate fully, so I did not think about everything I had heard about this particular parish.

Right after Mass started, this young teenager with purple hair was seen walking down the center aisle, helping an elderly woman. They sat down in the front row.

The hair did not distract me, but the large pentagram on her t-shirt did. It was on a black background and the top tips were curved to make it look like a heart. But there is no doubt that it was a pentagram.

Let me say it again for those of you who may not have caught on: a teenage girl showed up for Mass today with a pentagram on her t-shirt.

Certainly, one person should not be responsible for the condemnation of an entire group. But her willingness to openly wear a pentagram tells you something about the community here. Had this been another parish, I guarantee she would not have worn that shirt. This type of thing is apparently accepted at this parish.

p.s. And everything I had heard about this parish was true. They even changed the words of the Lord’s Prayer.
 
I’m going to guess that was a band sweatshirt. The Finnish band HIM has that symbol representing the band. They call it a heart-a-gram. It’s a weird type of love rock band. I’m not a fan of their music, but I’ve heard it before. It’s mostly love type songs.
 
DihydrogenOxide said:
I’m going to guess that was a band sweatshirt. The Finnish band HIM has that symbol representing the band. They call it a heart-a-gram. It’s a weird type of love rock band. I’m not a fan of their music, but I’ve heard it before. It’s mostly love type songs.
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I found the band on Wikipedia and the “heartagram” that they describe is the exact same one I saw on the shirt.

Still, a pentagram is a pentagram no matter how you try to transform it.
 
It’s a strange sort of band. I am assuming they are atheistic. They seem to think they can use whatever symbol and it won’t matter, since the evil one is “not real”, in their belief.

The band itself seems to be fairly benign, though. The girl probably just thinks it is a heart star. I’m sure she probably didn’t think of it as an actual demonic symbol and take it to Mass. She is most likely a “scene” or “goth” type trying to be trendy by wearing a heart on a band t-shirt.
 
Im not trying to start something, but it seems as though you are saying that the pentagram itself is evil, which is not true
I will agree that it is most often associated with paganism, and the occult, but a symbol is only a symbol.
The pentagram was often used by early christians to depict the five wounds of Christ, and the 5 joys of mary, and many other things.
It was also used as the oficial seal of Jerusalem for a time.
It is also a geometrical miracle,I would definitely get a golden ratio shirt with a pentagram on it, of course it would seem weird to you, but i like math 😛
I would alos like to say that someone may do something that seems unusual, but not until further examination does it make sense, LIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEE:
STATUES
many people accuse catholics of idolotry because we ‘pray to statues’ but it only seems as though we do (and rightfully so) but untill you discover the true meaning, you should not judge.
 
GrahamAPhone said:
Im not trying to start something, but it seems as though you are saying that the pentagram itself is evil, which is not true
I will agree that it is most often associated with paganism, and the occult, but a symbol is only a symbol.
The pentagram was often used by early christians to depict the five wounds of Christ, and the 5 joys of mary, and many other things.
It was also used as the oficial seal of Jerusalem for a time.
It is also a geometrical miracle,I would definitely get a golden ratio shirt with a pentagram on it, of course it would seem weird to you, but i like math 😛
I would alos like to say that someone may do something that seems unusual, but not until further examination does it make sense, LIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEE:
STATUES
many people accuse catholics of idolotry because we ‘pray to statues’ but it only seems as though we do (and rightfully so) but untill you discover the true meaning, you should not judge.
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Yes, but the one that is being referred to that looks like the heart-a-gram, the downward pointing pentagram, is the symbol of the Church of satan, as it is the opposite and a mockery of the Christian symbol depicting the 5 wounds of Christ.
 
damooster said:
Right after Mass started, this young teenager with purple hair was seen walking down the center aisle, helping an elderly woman. They sat down in the front row.

Certainly, one person should not be responsible for the condemnation of an entire group.
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To me, what is important is that she was helping the elderly woman, that speaks volumes for her character. As to the shirt, it appears it is a rock band symbol from what the other posters say, so I would think that she had the shirt on because she is a fan or wants to be cool instead of trying to be satanic - she may not even know what a pentagram is. It seems you are condemning them. I’m glad that a teenager is in church, helping.

Just my 2 cents…
 
Hair color and wardrobe aside, what concerns me is that the parish changed the words to the Pater Noster. That is really bad and a far greater infraction.
 
damooster said:
Right after Mass started, this young teenager with purple hair was seen walking down the center aisle, helping an elderly woman. They sat down in the front row.

.
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Why not focus on the positive? This teenager helped an elderly woman to mass and sat in the front with her.

Optimism versus pessimism.

A shape is JUST a shape. No more. No less.😉

(Spoken as the mother of a teen boy who for many years wore his hair long and like black leather and sunglasses. People who did not know him assumed he was into drugs and drinking. Nothing was farther from the truth.)

Don’t judge.
 
damooster said:
I am
Let me say it again for those of you who may not have caught on: a teenage girl showed up for Mass today with a pentagram on her t-shirt.

.
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and you know for a fact she is a member of that parish, is wearing this shirt specifically to broadcast her embrace of its negative connotation, that she is encouraged or allowed to wear such clothing by the pastor, catechist, school, or anyone in the parish. does your usual parish have ushers at the door to enforce the dress code?

liturgical abuse is an offense by the presiding priest which is illicit or which invalidates the Eucharist. the actions of the congregants, no matter how disturbing, do not constitute abuse. who says different words to the OF? priest? some people? cantor and choir? all the people? which words? different how? the one real problem you don’t even describe. and if in your entire experience there the only negative was a kid helping an elderly lady, you must have strict standards indeed.
 
Why exactly are you visiting every parish in your diocese?
How exactly did they change the words to the Lord’s Prayer?
You know, you link your website about your journey so we now know the name, address, pastor, etc. of these parishes that you are visiting and critiquing. Please be 100% sure before you make negative comments.
Isn’t it hard to feel part of the community of your own parish when you are visting others every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation? I just dont understand -not that it is my business to understand-but you are making negative comments about parishes on your blog and then linking to your blog on a public forum. It just seems to lend itself to making comparisons and judgments.
I would be so distracted, but that is just me.

I would have felt very hopeful about a teen who may or may not be dressed appropriately, being at mass, accompanying an elderly person, sitting up front. I am so thankful no one made her feel unwelcome at church because of her dress.
 
DihydrogenOxide said:
Yes, but the one that is being referred to that looks like the heart-a-gram, the downward pointing pentagram, is the symbol of the Church of satan, as it is the opposite and a mockery of the Christian symbol depicting the 5 wounds of Christ.
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I dont think the decided to take a pentacle ()downward pointing pentagram), and turn it into a hear, I think they took a pentagram, and decided that you cant have an upside down heart 😛
 
katrntogo said:
To me, what is important is that she was helping the elderly woman, that speaks volumes for her character.
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I’m not even going to point out the different types of people that help out the elderly. Just because you help an elderly person, it does not mean you are a good person.
As to the shirt, it appears it is a rock band symbol from what the other posters say, so I would think that she had the shirt on because she is a fan or wants to be cool instead of trying to be satanic - she may not even know what a pentagram is.
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I can only hope and pray that she was not trying to be satanic. But Mass is not a place to show your support for a heavy metal band.
It seems you are condemning them. I’m glad that a teenager is in church, helping.
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Just my 2 cents…
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I was condemning the apparent parental consent of the teenager to wear the shirt.
 
damooster said:
I’m I was condemning the apparent parental consent of the teenager to wear the shirt.
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and from this apparently you condemn an entire parish, her leadership and her parishioners. congratulations on being gifted from on high with the ability to make such judgements.
 
benedictgal said:
Hair color and wardrobe aside, what concerns me is that the parish changed the words to the Pater Noster. That is really bad and a far greater infraction.
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Absolutely. Charity would make me suggest that the pentagram was possibly just invincible ignorance.

No priest can claim that about changing the words of the Pater Noster, however.
 
I’m just laughing at all this. You are doing this ‘tour’ for what appears to be the purpose of finding “liberal” things to complain about at one of the more orthodox dioceses in the country. You may be in for a big suprise if you continue this. However, I truly hope you don’t. I hope that you begin to regularly attend your home parish and find a true apostolate to be a part of instead of looking high and low for things to complain about elsewhere.
 
I was condemning the apparent parental consent of the teenager to wear the shirt.

Actually, you said she would not feel comfortable dressed that way in YOUR parish-it sounded like you were condemning the whole parish. And you ended your first post by saying that everything you had heard about that parish was true. That sounds like gossip-or at least listening to it.
Why are you condmening anyone? And at mass of all places!
 
:QUOTE=Mrs Sally;6181820]I’m just laughing at all this. You are doing this ‘tour’ for what appears to be the purpose of finding “liberal” things to complain about at one of the more orthodox dioceses in the country. You may be in for a big suprise if you continue this. However, I truly hope you don’t. I hope that you begin to regularly attend your home parish and find a true apostolate to be a part of instead of looking high and low for things to complain about elsewhere.

👍
 
OraLabora said:
Absolutely. Charity would make me suggest that the pentagram was possibly just invincible ignorance.

No priest can claim that about changing the words of the Pater Noster, however.
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But we still have not heard how the words were changed (despite several requests for this) -The alleged changing of the words is hearsay. Frankly, it is worse than that because his blog links this public forum to the exact parish.
 
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