Just when you think you've seen it all

[jmcrae]

Let me say it again for those of you who may not have caught on: a teenage girl showed up for Mass today with a pentagram on her t-shirt.

I once saw a school video with Donald Duck in it that had pentagrams in it. (It was on the subject of Geometry.)

Donald Duck is a Satanist!!

 

[damooster]

What were these words?

I know this is a bad answer, but I don’t know what they were changed to, I just know they were changed.

Even though I was forced to hold hands, I closed my eyes and prayerfully sang the Lord’s Prayer. When we got to the line “and lead us not into temptation,” I realized that what I sang was different from those around me. I opened my eyes and looked up to make sure that I had sung the right words, and the woman next to me, who also sang the same words I did, shrugged her shoulders as if to say “beats me.”

It was along the lines of “and lead us not into sinful ways” or something like that. I’m sorry I can’t remember the exact words.

 

[katrntogo]

I’m not even going to point out the different types of people that help out the elderly. Just because you help an elderly person, it does not mean you are a good person.

Just a thought, but perhaps you should take a look at your own heart before casting aspersions… Jesus did not condemn the adulterous woman & I try to live by that maxim as I am so very far from perfect…so no, I am not condemning you, just trying to open your eyes to how it appears from your posts.

 

[Philomeena]

I am continuing my journey (attempt to attend Mass at every parish in the diocese, see link in signature) and today I went to a notoriously progressive parish. As always, I try to just concentrate on Mass so that I can participate fully, so I did not think about everything I had heard about this particular parish.

Right after Mass started, this young teenager with purple hair was seen walking down the center aisle, helping an elderly woman. They sat down in the front row.

The hair did not distract me, but the large pentagram on her t-shirt did. It was on a black background and the top tips were curved to make it look like a heart. But there is no doubt that it was a pentagram.

Let me say it again for those of you who may not have caught on: a teenage girl showed up for Mass today with a pentagram on her t-shirt.

Certainly, one person should not be responsible for the** condemnation of an entire group**. But her willingness to openly wear a pentagram tells you something about the community here. Had this been another parish, I guarantee she would not have worn that shirt. This type of thing is apparently accepted at this parish.
p.s.** And everything I had heard about this parish was true. They even changed the words of the Lord’s Prayer**.

Please re-read your original post-especially the bolded parts (if I did that correctly). Look at your choice of words. Can you honestly say that it does not sound presumptuous, judgmental and gossipy? Do you think it is kind that you have called out this parish publicly by linking your blog to this public forum?
Did you really want this teen barred at the door? Do you think she would have come back to the Catholic Church had she been turned away for her shirt? Do you have teens yourself? Again, I would have been uplifted that even such an “out there” looking girl had come to mass to worship our Lord.

 

[damooster]

and you know for a fact she is a member of that parish, is wearing this shirt specifically to broadcast her embrace of its negative connotation

I made no claims suggesting that she was purposely being defiant. All I said was she was wearing a pentagram to Mass. Even out of ignorance, this is a serious matter.

that she is encouraged or allowed to wear such clothing by the pastor, catechist, school, or anyone in the parish.

Of course she was allowed. No one stopped her or said anything to her!

does your usual parish have ushers at the door to enforce the dress code?

Yep.

liturgical abuse is an offense by the presiding priest which is illicit or which invalidates the Eucharist. the actions of the congregants, no matter how disturbing, do not constitute abuse. who says different words to the OF? priest? some people? cantor and choir? all the people? which words? different how? the one real problem you don’t even describe. and if in your entire experience there the only negative was a kid helping an elderly lady, you must have strict standards indeed.

The pastor is responsible for the spiritual welfare of his parish, and this includes minimizing liturgical abuse. I don’t expect pastors to stop Mass to correct parishioners, but I certainly don’t expect them to participate in these abuses. During the Lord’s Prayer, the celebrant, altar servers, and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion joined hands around the altar. Stopping abuses is one thing. Helping to promote them is a completely different thing.

You’ve got me all wrong. I didn’t come here to harp about all of the abuses I witnessed today. I mentioned the pentagram because whether it was deliberate or out of ignorance, a pentagram should not have found it’s way into a Catholic Church, and just mere feet from the Eucharist. Had a dress code been enforced, this t-shirt would have never made it in to the sanctuary. Had there been some respect for our Savior and the Mass, the girl would have never showed up to Mass in a t-shirt in the first place.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I dont think the decided to take a pentacle ()downward pointing pentagram), and turn it into a hear, I think they took a pentagram, and decided that you cant have an upside down heart

Hon, I think the name of the band, HIM (His Infernal Majesty), is not named as such for no reason at all. I’m pretty certain they knew the symbol. Just look at the songs they have…666, etc leads me to believe they did it on purpose.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I’m just laughing at all this. You are doing this ‘tour’ for what appears to be the purpose of finding “liberal” things to complain about at one of the more orthodox dioceses in the country. You may be in for a big suprise if you continue this. However, I truly hope you don’t. I hope that you begin to regularly attend your home parish and find a true apostolate to be a part of instead of looking high and low for things to complain about elsewhere.

You’re accusing her of doing something she isn’t. She is merely going to every parish in her diocese to see what each is like. She expressed that she was trying to focus on the Mass and not the liberal. She says this plainly in her first post.

If you’ve ever seen a HIM sweater, you’d know that you can’t miss the symbol.

 

[Philomeena]

Had there been some respect for our Savior and the Mass, the girl would have never showed up to Mass in a t-shirt in the first place.

Again, presumptuous. Just because she doesn’t show respect in the same way you do does not make her without respect for our Savior. And I find it hard to believe you have bouncers at your parish who enforce dress code. If so, that is the most horrible thing I have ever heard. I am so thankful for this girl that she does not go to your parish-I would hate for a teen to be turned away from church for his or her dress. Chances are she would never come back. Compassion, charity, benefit of the doubt-all good things.

 

[damooster]

Why exactly are you visiting every parish in your diocese?

I love Catholic architecture and so I wanted to see what kind of buildings, icons, etc. other parishes in the diocese exhibit. I also love the fact that I can go to any Catholic Church and worship, so I wanted to worship with all of the Catholics in my diocese.

How exactly did they change the words to the Lord’s Prayer?

The Lord’s Prayer was sung, and unfortunately I don’t remember the exact words they used. All I remember is that my eyes were closed as I wanted to concentrate on the prayer, and when I got to the part “and lead us not into temptation,” what I sang was different then the people around me. I opened my eyes and the woman to my right, who I heard sing the same words I did, looked at me and kind of just shrugged like “I don’t know, beats me.” After that, I did not finish the prayer because I was embarrassed.

You know, you link your website about your journey so we now know the name, address, pastor, etc. of these parishes that you are visiting and critiquing. Please be 100% sure before you make negative comments.

Up until today, I have not critiqued any of the parishes despite some of the things I’ve witnessed. It’s still not my intention, but I was so frustrated today that I had to voice it in my blog. Regardless, I stand by everything I’ve written. I’m not looking to start trouble, but I will defend what I’ve done.

Isn’t it hard to feel part of the community of your own parish when you are visting others every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation? I just dont understand -not that it is my business to understand-but you are making negative comments about parishes on your blog and then linking to your blog on a public forum. It just seems to lend itself to making comparisons and judgments.
I would be so distracted, but that is just me.

I attend daily Mass at my home parish, and I still stay involved with all of the ministries I’ve joined like the Knights of Columbus, Legion of Mary, and Pro-Life groups. And if you read my other posts, you’ll notice that none of them include anything negative. I simply included the negative stuff today because I was upset about what I had witnessed. The norm is not to mention only the negative things.

I would have felt very hopeful about a teen who may or may not be dressed appropriately, being at mass, accompanying an elderly person, sitting up front. I am so thankful no one made her feel unwelcome at church because of her dress.

I disagree, but to each his own I guess.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

You’re accusing her of doing something she isn’t. She is merely going to every parish in her diocese to see what each is like. She expressed that she was trying to focus on the Mass and not the liberal. She says this plainly in her first post.

If you’ve ever seen a HIM sweater, you’d know that you can’t miss the symbol.

I make my comment based on going to the website and reading what is actually written there about the visits. And I stand very firmly behind my suggestion that she stop the church-hopping and comparisions and find a true apostolate in her home parish.

The teen’s shirt is too bad, but really not the point.

 

[damooster]

I’m just laughing at all this. You are doing this ‘tour’ for what appears to be the purpose of finding “liberal” things to complain about at one of the more orthodox dioceses in the country. You may be in for a big suprise if you continue this. However, I truly hope you don’t. I hope that you begin to regularly attend your home parish and find a true apostolate to be a part of instead of looking high and low for things to complain about elsewhere.

Ma’am, I’m not doing this tour to find things to nit pick about. If you read through my blog, you’ll notice that prior to today, I had not said one negative thing about any parish that I’ve visited.

My two reasons for wanting to take this journey are:

1. To see where others are able to worship because I am fascinated with Catholic architecture, designs, icons etc.
2. The idea that I can worship along with other Catholics, no matter where I am, is something that originally drew me to the Church. So, I wanted to take advantage of this opportunity to worship with all of the Catholics in my diocese.

 

[crazzeto]

Personally, I think one should always do their best to dress nicely for mass. It’s quite correct that one shouldn’t judge another based upon such limited information, it’s also true that the fact that she was helping an old lady speaks volumes about her character. But at the same time, the celebration of the mass very much reminds us of a marriage celebration, i.e. the wedding feast of the lamb. And what did the Lamb of God say about proper dress and weddings?

11 And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. 12 And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. 13 Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

I.E. one should always be appropriatly prepared for the occation in which they are entering. The man here was thrown in to gehena because he was unprepared for the wedding feast to which he was invited. This young lady should be doing the same. When you’re out with your friends, dress however you want (with in reason, or at least with in the guidlines set by your parents). If you’re going to a more formal occation, such as Sunday Mass then one should dress appropriatly. Loud clothing, particularly the type which will reasnobly cause a scandle (no offence to anyone here, but it’s reasnoble to assume in our culture that wearing a pentegram of any kind to mass will in fact cause scandle as it did here) should be avoided.

 

[damooster]

I make my comment based on going to the website and reading what is actually written there about the visits. And I stand very firmly behind my suggestion that she stop the church-hopping and comparisions and find a true apostolate in her home parish.

The teen’s shirt is too bad, but really not the point.

I’m a guy!

And please show me where I’ve said negative or questionable things about the other parishes I’ve visited. Maybe my blog about this parish was uncharitable, but I don’t believe I was harsh with any of the other parishes.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I make my comment based on going to the website and reading what is actually written there about the visits. And I stand very firmly behind my suggestion that she stop the church-hopping and comparisions and find a true apostolate in her home parish.

The teen’s shirt is too bad, but really not the point.

So have I.

This blog is more on the objective side than filled with complaints. If anything, I would say he is fairly upbeat, which is more than I can say about how I’d feel if I had to attend Mass at a super liberal parish. It’s a diary or sorts, why can’t he have an opinion?

 

[damooster]

So have I.

This blog is more on the objective side than filled with complains. If anything, I would say he is fairly upbeat, which is more than I can say about how I’d feel if I had to attend Mass at a super liberal parish. It’s a diary or sorts, why can’t he have an opinion?

I’m a guy but thanks for the defense lol!

Edit: Sorry, you fixed it before I posted.

 

[MaryandJoseph]

This might have been stated before, and if it has, forgive me.

But as a mother of a 16 year old, I know the struggles that some parents go through in getting their children to attend Mass. The fact that this young lady was there is a wonderful thing. I believe with my whole heart that God can speak to even the most hardened and cold and lost of hearts, if only we give Him the chance.

Though this shirt was wrong to wear at Mass and maybe the priest should AFTER Mass point this out to her, in a very kind and loving way I might add, at least she was there and as such, the opportunity for her to hear the word of God and experience His love was made all the easier.

Take this as an opportunity to pray for her and all the young people who are trying to find their way. Ya never know, God may be using this young lady as a way of making You a Saint.

 

[BouncingBall]

Just wanted to chime in.

I’m a convert from the Baptist tradition. I remember having to dress up for Sunday School and church in my “sunday best.” I’m a bit of a tomboy so I disliked having to wear prissy dresses and uncomfortable patent leather shoes. Anyways, the tradition was to dress up for church. So everyone in all dressed up in church; ain’t everyone a nice person. Some of the meanest folk on earth are church folk, while wearing new dresses and stylish hats and classic suits. So when I began going to Mass during my RCIA months, I was taken aback about how the parishioners could wear anything to Mass! Even jeans, t-shirts! Totally my kind of Church, LOL. Ask me if I have ever dressed up again for Mass (excluding Easter and Christmas). Of course, I would never wear a miniskirt or halter to Mass. Or ever. LOL.

We don’t know the circumstances of the girl with purple hair. Maybe she wasn’t planning on going to that Mass until the last minute. Why would she help a random old lady to Mass? It’s probably her relative who needed a lift at the last minute. The OP must live in a warm climate because it’s winter now and the girl would have been wearing a coat over her t-shirt. Also, how could the OP see the t-shirt? The girl was sitting in the front row. Does the OP have a periscope? I can’t see the front of people’s t-shirts when they walk past me from behind. Is the OP sitting in the front row and scoping the communicants as they walk in? The only times I can see that the OP saw the girl’s shirt would have been as an usher, or during the “peace be with you”, or after the girl took communion. Now the purple hair, that’s another story. You could see that from Castelgandolfo, lol.

While visiting Rome one August, speaking of Castelgandolfo, I noticed that the ushers (if there is one available) won’t let women into the church unless their shoulders are covered.

 

[BouncingBall]

…one more thing.

The OP should check out St John Church in McLean. (I see that the OP is from northern VA). They have a Latin Mass on Sundays, and one of the priests there is Father Scalia, the son of the Supreme Court Justice.

 

[damooster]

This might have been stated before, and if it has, forgive me.

But as a mother of a 16 year old, I know the struggles that some parents go through in getting their children to attend Mass. The fact that this young lady was there is a wonderful thing. I believe with my whole heart that God can speak to even the most hardened and cold and lost of hearts, if only we give Him the chance.

Though this shirt was wrong to wear at Mass and maybe the priest should AFTER Mass point this out to her, in a very kind and loving way I might add, at least she was there and as such, the opportunity for her to hear the word of God and experience His love was made all the easier.

Take this as an opportunity to pray for her and all the young people who are trying to find their way. Ya never know, God may be using this young lady as a way of making You a Saint.

Re-reading my original post, I realize that I was pretty stern and unfair. I am grateful that she attended Mass. I’m not a parent, but if teenagers are anything like me and my sisters were when we were teenagers, I can understand how her going to Mass is a small victory. I think everything that I witnessed yesterday caused me to unfairly blast her. I’ve since prayed for her and for myself. I also plan on changing my unfavorable blog post.

Thank you for kindly sharing your opinion with me. I think we could all learn from you.

 

[damooster]

.Also, how could the OP see the t-shirt? The girl was sitting in the front row. Does the OP have a periscope? I can’t see the front of people’s t-shirts when they walk past me from behind. Is the OP sitting in the front row and scoping the communicants as they walk in? The only times I can see that the OP saw the girl’s shirt would have been as an usher, or during the “peace be with you”, or after the girl took communion.

At the beginning of Mass, the Lector invited everyone to stand and greet everyone around us. That’s when I first saw the t-shirt (I was near the front myself). I later saw it after Holy Communion because she was stretching right in front of me while I was kneeling to pray.