Just when you think you've seen it all

[damooster]

…one more thing.

The OP should check out St John Church in McLean. (I see that the OP is from northern VA). They have a Latin Mass on Sundays, and one of the priests there is Father Scalia, the son of the Supreme Court Justice.

Thank you. I know of Fr. Scalia (he was once Parochial Vicar of my home parish) but have not had a chance to attend Mass at St. John the Beloved yet. I do plan on it as I hear he offers the TLM.

 

[BouncingBall]

No offense, Damoose, but I am reading your blog now in another tab.

I remember, when I first became Catholic, that I would check out other parishes. I checked out Blessed Sacrament in Arlington, St Anne in Arlington, St Catherine of Siena out toward Reston, St James in Falls Church. What’s the Scripture from Psalms? “Lord I love to tarry in Thy House” or similar. That’s what you love, and that rocks!

[There’s one big church in Arlington whose ushers wouldn’t let you go sit in a pew if you arrive after Mass began. Sometimes because of my work schedule on Saturdays at the time, that was the only place I could go to Mass! I hated that practice so much, I can still see the “no no no” wagging finger of the usher, and I have erased the name of that church from memory.]

Anyway, from reading your blog, it looks like an IRS-type audit of churches. There’s comment on church design, behavior of the communicants, availability of parking, liturgical decoration and layout of the church building. I got the impression that the only person who should be doing this kind of auditing is Jesus Christ.

Also, a church is not the building, but the people who worship therein. That one church that looks like a camping lodge on the inside may have the most vibrant spiritual life in the northern hemisphere, but we can’t see that from where we’re sitting.

We need to concentrate on hearing the word of God. Maybe you could visit the churches right after Mass is over; that way you can get the spiritual nourishment you need at your home parish and then be a commentator on religious architecture in a different time-frame.

 

[revert_jen]

I’m just laughing at all this. You are doing this ‘tour’ for what appears to be the purpose of finding “liberal” things to complain about at one of the more orthodox dioceses in the country. You may be in for a big suprise if you continue this. However, I truly hope you don’t. I hope that you begin to regularly attend your home parish and find a true apostolate to be a part of instead of looking high and low for things to complain about elsewhere.

Hm. Where did you get this impression of the purpose of the tour? I didn’t see it. Also I’m not at all sure what you are talking about with a “big surprise.” It sounds like some kind of warning, but I can’t see what is about.

Also, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with attending Mass at any parish you want. You seem to be accusing the OP of a lack of charity, which you yourself are failing to show the OP.

Once I saw a story in a bulletin which went something like this:

The person telling the story (Person C) was in a grocery store and standing in line. The cashier was new and having problems with the register. The person in the front of the line (Person A) was calm. The second person in line (Person B) looked at his watch, quietly said “I can’t believe this,” and asked another passing store employee to send someone else to help. Person B was (gasp) buying a pack of cigarettes. Person C was third in line. The point of the story was that Person A was “being Christ-like,” and Person B was “doing bad.”

The problem with this story and its point is that the person telling the story wasn’t being any more Christ-like than Person B. Theoretically (although we have no information on this point, as Person B wasn’t asked about anything), Person B was being selfish and inconsiderate. The nature of the purchase was put into the story to support this point in an undefinable way. Perhaps it was true. Actually, Person B might have been trying to quit, and had gone a long time without one and was going through withdrawal. He might have a bad temper naturally which he was trying hard but unsuccessfully to control. He may have felt that it is reasonable to expect competence from people who are being paid to do a job, and that if the person is too new to be competent, someone should be there to help them. We don’t know, because Person C never spoke to Person B.

What we do know is that Person C was judgmental of Person B, and showed intolerance and lack of understanding. We know about Person C’s motives because of what Person C said in the story. So we have Person C judging Person B for faults that Person B may have been exhibiting, but that Person C was certainly exhibiting in making the judgement. It was a bit ironic.

It also seems to be a bit similar to what is happening here, except that there is a bit more evidence that the OP was judging the teenager, but no evidence that the OP was “looking high and low for things to complain about elsewhere.” Of course now I am like a hypothetical Person D, who is treating Person C the way they are treating Person B and so forth. I admit it, and I’m sorry if I am being unfair.

Perhaps I understand the OP a little more because the experience of the OP where “the person to my left slapped my arm and grabbed my hand” for the Our Father resonates strongly with me. That idea of coercing people to do things they’re uncomfortable with in the name of “community” bothers me on both logical and personal grounds. After that, I might have gone home and been a bit critical in my blog too, if I had a blog.

–Jen

 

[that_name]

My rule of thumb - the dress code at St Peter’s in the Vatican will do for any Parish on earth.

No shorts for men.

No bare shoulders or bare knees for women.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I just do not think it is a good idea for someone to set themselves up as a judge of every parish in their diocese, especially if they neglect building up the community of believers in their own home parish. Mr Moo’s time and effort could better be spent on a hundred other projects than telling us that he doesn’t like the brick exterior of a church built 40 years ago, that parking is tight at St. Mercedes parish, or that he was offended by the clothing by a random teenager he’ll never see again. Even his interpretation oif the hand holding during the Our Father is suspect since he appears to be out to find fault rather than to rejoice in the many, many blessing of the Arlington diocese.

 

[damooster]

I just do not think it is a good idea for someone to set themselves up as a judge of every parish in their diocese, especially if they neglect building up the community of believers in their own home parish. Mr Moo’s time and effort could better be spent on a hundred other projects than telling us that he doesn’t like the brick exterior of a church built 40 years ago, that parking is tight at St. Mercedes parish, or that he was offended by the clothing by a random teenager he’ll never see again.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, so I won’t argue with whether or not you believe I’m spending my time in the most efficient manner. I will say (again), however, that I am involved with the many ministries at my home parish. I’m an active member of the Knights of Columbus (and by active, I mean I help out with all activities), I’m an auxiliary for the Legion of Mary praesidium, I pray the rosary every Tuesday evening with the Pro-Life group, and I attend daily Mass at my home parish. Not trying to be boastful, but I can confidently say that I am just as much involved with my home parish as anyone else.

Even his interpretation oif the hand holding during the Our Father is suspect since he appears to be out to find fault

How is this suspect? I personally hate it when I’m forced to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer. During my journey, there have been a few cases where people offer their hand to me and I smile and politely say “no thank you.” It’s never been a problem anywhere I’ve been, so I’ve never mentioned it in my blogs. But when someone slaps my arm and then forcefully grabs my hand, they are in the wrong and I have every right to be upset. I still tried to pray humbly, but you weren’t there and you don’t know how it all occurred. I’d really like to be afforded the charity that I’m being accused of lacking; like revert_jen has said, many posters in this thread have enjoyed taking verbal pot shots at me, accusing me of something while they themselves don’t know the whole story. I recognized that I failed to act charitably to the teenage girl and the parish; I’d like for you to start doing the same.

rejoice in the many, many blessing of the Arlington diocese.

You don’t seem to understand: I’m doing this because I love the Arlington diocese. I want to worship with my fellow Catholics in this diocese and I want to admire the Catholic architecture with which they are able to worship. Despite a few incidents, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my tour. I’ve met great people along the way, and I will continue to do so.

p.s. When I get home, I plan to post an apology on my blog and to edit the original post.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Let’s keep in mind it’s about intent, not just the appearance. Before any condemnation you should find out this person’s intent. Afterall Up until medieval times, the five points of the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ on the Cross. There is an old Slavik hall here in Cleveland. On the stamped tin ceiling are hundreds of swastikas. The thing is the ceiling was put in at least 30 years before anyone had ever head the term “nazi” and the symbol was just a good luck charm and it remains in place.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

God bless you for your pro-life and Knights activities. I still don’t agree with the stated purpose of the journey, but I don’t need to. I will simply pray for continued blessings on you and on the diocese.

 

[damooster]

God bless you for your pro-life and Knights activities. I still don’t agree with the stated purpose of the journey, but I don’t need to. I will simply pray for continued blessings on you and on the diocese.

Thank you!

 

[puzzleannie]

I know this is a bad answer, but I don’t know what they were changed to, I just know they were changed.

Even though I was forced to hold hands, I closed my eyes and prayerfully sang the Lord’s Prayer. When we got to the line “and lead us not into temptation,” I realized that what I sang was different from those around me. I opened my eyes and looked up to make sure that I had sung the right words, and the woman next to me, who also sang the same words I did, shrugged her shoulders as if to say “beats me.”

It was along the lines of “and lead us not into sinful ways” or something like that. I’m sorry I can’t remember the exact words.

then if you cannot document this, best not to spread the rumor on the internet where, apparently, you have actually identified the parish.

 

[SpaceNeedle]

Helpful future reference: during the Our Father, clasp your hands together, in front of you. My parish does the hand-holding, but many of us prefer to do without. Those hand-holders to our sides can simply lift their upturned palm instead of holding our hand. Most, while occasionally initially surprised/confused, comply and we all move on into the prayer. No big deal.

 

[damooster]

then if you cannot document this, best not to spread the rumor on the internet where, apparently, you have actually identified the parish.

I know the words were changed, but I’ve already stated that I’m going to edit my blog.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\But her willingness to openly wear a pentagram tells you something about the community here.\

**And it’s possible that the t-shirt you found offensive was the only thing she had to wear.

I suggest you consider these verses from James 2:**

2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?**

In short, your comment about her clothes and what you think about her parish tells me more about you than anything else.**

 

[damooster]

In short, your comment about her clothes and what you think about her parish tells me more about you than anything else.

Please read my more recent posts regarding this thread. I have since admitted my own faults, apologized, and edited my blog post.

These continued pot shots at me are unwarranted and exhibit the same lack of charity I am guilty of.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

You’re not lacking charity. In fact, I assume these people believe you are “judging”. I find, however, you are merely stating opinion. It’s not an all out attack like these believe it to be.

It’s perfectly normal for you to be appalled by evil. Even Catholic Answers book explains this.

The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. ~Fulton Sheen

 

[adstrinity]

Alright, I’ve only read the first two pages and I’ve read enough.

To the OP: Don’t you just love when you come online and complain just to vent amongst your fellow Catholics and then you get jumped? I am constantly amazed at how many people click on that “Reply” button just to tell you you are being uncharitable…and they mock you passive-agressively for being uncharitable. Any other forum it’s “firsties”, but not here, no. Here it’s “Holiest”. Whoever can tell you you are missing out on the purpose of the Mass gets the street cred from the forum (or at least, I think that’s what they think).

All that being said, the first thing I noticed about your initial post was, “Woah! A teen helped a woman to her seat? Rock.”

Through this site, and perhaps because of the TLM’s down here, I don’t mind what people wear to church as long as boobs aren’t hanging out and things are fairly form fitting. I’ve always been taught, even when I was going to a full Gospel school, that t-shirts were wrong at Mass, but, meh. I hope these people would want to dress up for God, but, how many of these people know God is truly there? Also, maybe these are the best or most appropriate clothes these people have. You know, I’ve seen denim overalls at a TLM down here. From then on, I’ve learned to not be so judgemental on clothing. Especially since some people on this forum are of the opinion that I sin against God and nature by wearing pants…to Mass no less.

Anyway, where was I? Oh, yes, the heartogram. If it offends you, look at it like a heart over a triangle. Think of it as the Trinity and His Love. I’m not a fan of the band only because I’ve never heard them, but, I like rock, and I like all rock. It’s the only genre I like so chances are I’d like this band.

If one sees HIM’s wikipedia article, one can see that the song mentioned before is entitled, “Your Sweet Six Six Six.” Lyrics are as follows:

There are things you should know
The distance between us seems to grow
But you’re holding on strong
Oh how hard it’s to let go, oh so hard to let go

I’m waiting for your call and I’m ready to take your
six six six in my heart
I’m longing for your touch and I welcome your sweet
six six six in my heart

I’m losing my faith in you
You don’t want it to be true
But there’s nothing you can do
There’s nothing you can do - Yes, I’ve lost my faith in
you

I’m waiting for your call and I’m ready to take your
six six six in my heart
I’m longing for your touch and I welcome your sweet
six six six in my heart

How long we have to wait
For love is fading so slowly
I know it’s too late
Oh my god you’re so lonely

I’m waiting for your call and I’m ready to take your
six six six in my heart
I’m longing for your touch and I welcome your sweet
six six six in my heart
I’m ready for your call and I’m ready to take your six
six six in my heart
I’m longing for your touch and I welcome your sweet
six six six in my heart
In my heart
In my heart
In my heart

 

[Kiechlin]

…one more thing.

The OP should check out St John Church in McLean. (I see that the OP is from northern VA). They have a Latin Mass on Sundays, and one of the priests there is Father Scalia, the son of the Supreme Court Justice.

Or St.Leo’s in Fairfax. Also St. Raymond’s in Springfield

 

[damooster]

To the OP: Don’t you just love when you come online and complain just to vent amongst your fellow Catholics and then you get jumped? I am constantly amazed at how many people click on that “Reply” button just to tell you you are being uncharitable…and they mock you passive-agressively for being uncharitable. Any other forum it’s “firsties”, but not here, no. Here it’s “Holiest”. Whoever can tell you you are missing out on the purpose of the Mass gets the street cred from the forum (or at least, I think that’s what they think).

Yeah, I’m pretty surprised at the comments I’ve received both on this thread and in my PM inbox, but I can only pray for them. They’re going to think whatever they want to think about me.

I did, however, get the greatest email from a parishioner of the parish I talked about. She has taught me the greatest lesson of all this, and she did it with civility and grace. I hope it wears off on me!

 

[iamrefreshed]

I am continuing my journey (attempt to attend Mass at every parish in the diocese, see link in signature) and today I went to a notoriously progressive parish. As always, I try to just concentrate on Mass so that I can participate fully, so I did not think about everything I had heard about this particular parish.

Right after Mass started, this young teenager with purple hair was seen walking down the center aisle, helping an elderly woman. They sat down in the front row.

The hair did not distract me, but the large pentagram on her t-shirt did. It was on a black background and the top tips were curved to make it look like a heart. But there is no doubt that it was a pentagram.

Let me say it again for those of you who may not have caught on: a teenage girl showed up for Mass today with a pentagram on her t-shirt.

Certainly, one person should not be responsible for the condemnation of an entire group. But her willingness to openly wear a pentagram tells you something about the community here. Had this been another parish, I guarantee she would not have worn that shirt. This type of thing is apparently accepted at this parish.

p.s. And everything I had heard about this parish was true. They even changed the words of the Lord’s Prayer.

Rather than making assumptions and offering critiques for every parish you visit why don’t you spend the time helping the needy or something?

Maybe you could visit all the major league baseball parks instead?

 

[damooster]

Rather than making assumptions and offering critiques for every parish you visit why don’t you spend the time helping the needy or something?

Maybe you could visit all the major league baseball parks instead?

sigh

Maybe you could read the rest of the thread before making assumptions about me and my goal.