Justice or Vengeance

[As_for_my_House]

Hi Everyone,

In a previous post, I explained that my mother has died. She died without a will.
Her home is in very poor condition but in a good area of the city and probably has some value. I’m guessing about $40,000.00 though homes on her block go for about 95,000.00.

Here is my problem. I know that the abuse that my brother and his grown children inflicted on mom while living off her like parasites was the main contributing factor that caused her to become so depressed that she did not take care of a medical condition that was treatable had she gotten medical attention when the condition started.

Though out the 3 weeks before she died, he continued to abuse her telling her that he wished she would died. He said this the day she did die.

Over the 17 years that he has lived off my mother, he has continually blamed her for not coming over to his house in another state to raise his 3 children after the mother of the children tried to commit suicide and finally left him for her own sanity. Because he would not pay his bills and mortgage, he ended up loosing his house. * This* he blamed on my mother.

My mother took him in even before he lost his house but he refused to sell his house to catch up on the debt.
At some point he got it in his head that my mother owed him a house, saying that if only she’d have come over to live with him he’d have kept his house.

Somehow in these past 4 years my brother got a very large settlement from a pension lawsuit.It is enough to buy at least two houses.

From our teen years on my brother has hurt all his siblings physically, emotionally and sexually.My sister was molested and raped from age 4 to 16. He stabbed me with a butter knife at age 18, I moved out of the house. He threw my brother through a window and he is permanently scared. When my younger brother was severely depressed and suicidal, my brother would taunt him and tell him to kill himself. This is just a sampling of the things he has done, all things he got away with.

Now he wants my mother’s house. It rightly belongs to the 4 of us but the house isn’t worth much and the only one who has money to do the filings (administrator of the estate is 500.00 ) just to start, is me. In this city my brother has squatters rights. So should he refuse to move out and he will refuse, I would have to pay legal fees as well just to get him out of there.

It all sound possible if the house is worth 40,000.00 The problem is that the back brick wall of the house has pulled about 3 inches away from the molding and the floor and is possibly on its way to collapsing so the house may have to be condemned. I would like to have it condemned, if it would get him out of there.

Now the justice or vengeance question. The thought of letting my brother have or even buy the house causes me so much anger that it makes me sick. Yet I know that it could be my anger that is keeping me from just walking away from this mess. I also want justice for my sibling because they are poor and the money , if I could get any out of selling the house, would greatly help them. But I am so angry. I just want him to* not *get my mom’s house!

Am I seeking justice or revenge? Any thoughts about this situation?

 

[Xantippe]

Hi Everyone,

In a previous post, I explained that my mother has died. She died without a will.
Her home is in very poor condition but in a good area of the city and probably has some value. I’m guessing about $40,000.00 though homes on her block go for about 95,000.00.

Here is my problem. I know that the abuse that my brother and his grown children inflicted on mom while living off her like parasites was the main contributing factor that caused her to become so depressed that she did not take care of a medical condition that was treatable had she gotten medical attention when the condition started.

Though out the 3 weeks before she died, he continued to abuse her telling her that he wished she would died. He said this the day she did die.

Over the 17 years that he has lived off my mother, he has continually blamed her for not coming over to his house in another state to raise his 3 children after the mother of the children tried to commit suicide and finally left him for her own sanity. Because he would not pay his bills and mortgage, he ended up loosing his house. * This* he blamed on my mother.

My mother took him in even before he lost his house but he refused to sell his house to catch up on the debt.
At some point he got it in his head that my mother owed him a house, saying that if only she’d have come over to live with him he’d have kept his house.

Somehow in these past 4 years my brother got a very large settlement from a pension lawsuit.It is enough to buy at least two houses.

From our teen years on my brother has hurt all his siblings physically, emotionally and sexually.My sister was molested and raped from age 4 to 16. He stabbed me with a butter knife at age 18, I moved out of the house. He threw my brother through a window and he is permanently scared. When my younger brother was severely depressed and suicidal, my brother would taunt him and tell him to kill himself. This is just a sampling of the things he has done, all things he got away with.

Now he wants my mother’s house. It rightly belongs to the 4 of us but the house isn’t worth much and the only one who has money to do the filings (administrator of the estate is 500.00 ) just to start, is me. In this city my brother has squatters rights. So should he refuse to move out and he will refuse, I would have to pay legal fees as well just to get him out of there.

It all sound possible if the house is worth 40,000.00 The problem is that the back brick wall of the house has pulled about 3 inches away from the molding and the floor and is possibly on its way to collapsing so the house may have to be condemned. I would like to have it condemned, if it would get him out of there.

Now the justice or vengeance question. The thought of letting my brother have or even buy the house causes me so much anger that it makes me sick. Yet I know that it could be my anger that is keeping me from just walking away from this mess. I also want justice for my sibling because they are poor and the money , if I could get any out of selling the house, would greatly help them. But I am so angry. I just want him to* not *get my mom’s house!

Am I seeking justice or revenge? Any thoughts about this situation?

If it’s worth $40k and there are four of you, that’s only $10k each, even under the best possible circumstances (no legal expenses, etc.).

Talk to a lawyer, an accountant, and a counselor. I suspect that financially speaking, this is not worth fighting. (And there may be some tax nuances.) But work with a counselor on separating the emotional side of this from the financial side.

Even if the three of you give him the house, he’s not going to be able to hold onto it (taxes, maintenance, etc.). It’s just a matter of time before he loses it, just like he lost the other house. I would save my intestinal fortitude for telling him “no” when he comes round asking for money to save it.

One option that comes to mind is that you siblings could give your shares of the house to his adult children. That’s potentially a really sticky situation, but it is an option and it might make you feel less mad than signing it over to him and it has the virtue that it lessens his hold over them.

Anyway, talk to a lot of experts before doing anything and don’t give anything to anybody without making sure they actually want it.

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

**I don’t think you are seeking justice or vengeance. Actually what I am wondering is why you are not seeking peace. **

You mentioned in another post that your brother was extremely violent and volatile and was a gun owner and had recently threatened you. He is a pedophile, a rapist and also seems extremely sadistic.

**I guess you could sit down with pen and paper, figure out how much it might cost to fix the foundation, and probably a lot more that is falling apart in the home, then guess what it is going to cost you to evict your brother with an attorney. When that is done, divide by four and you have your final number. Probably a few thousand dollars. **

Does your sister want to face her rapist and abuser for that kind of money? Is she or your brother up to facing this madman?

Your brother will get your mom’s house, all of it. Your brother **will **get her money, and her belongings, all of them. Your brother **will **get all he wants, and your brother thinks this will make him happy. Your brother is a very sick man I would stay away from him. This situation seems like it has nothing but misery written all over it. Ask Jesus to bring you the peace you are seeking, no peace can come from this situation, I really believe that, even if you “win” and get the house from him you really won’t “win” because you will have no peace but you already knew that.

So sorry you are going through this.

Right.

 

[mommy_k]

Yes, what Monicad said.

Abusive people like this do not give up, and create hell for anyone who stands in thier way… They enjoy doing this. It a game to be won, and they will set out to destroy you.

Even if you had the money to sue him, or evict him — the actions he takes would escalate, and in this case, you will not just be inheriting a house–you will be inheriting a huge problem. i am sorry you are going through this.

:console:

 

[As_for_my_House]

I have a temperament (melancholic) that is hypersensitive to injustice. I’ve always been a person to speak up and defend the down trodden. Unfortunately, I am also easily discouraged, especially when I am doing something just for myself.

My temperament is driving me to once and for all seek restitution for all that my brother has done. The grief that I am experiencing over my mothers death is causing me to loose control of my emotions.

I barely sleep, I barely eat, I can’t enjoy any distractions. I am forgetting things. Mailing bills to the wrong vendors at work. Driving past my turns on the road. Yes it’s only been 3 weeks.

On the plus side, I have been given great consolations from our Lord that mom is throwing him out, not having a will… I have great peace with my relationship with my mother but I mourn her life. It was such a sad one!

I know that Our Lord with carry me through this but I seek justice and honestly I’m not really worried about peace right now.

My brother is also a coward. And the only thing that ever held me back from him is my mother’s hand.

I will consider your good counsel because I know I am a little insane right now. I will pray my rosary (which I am terrible at) and try to get myself to Adoration, my greatest hour of peace other than the Mass and Eucharist.

 

[mommy_k]

I have a temperament (melancholic) that is hypersensitive to injustice. I’ve always been a person to speak up and defend the down trodden. Unfortunately, I am also easily discouraged, especially when I am doing something just for myself.

My temperament is driving me to once and for all seek restitution for all that my brother has done. The grief that I am experiencing over my mothers death is causing me to loose control of my emotions.

I barely sleep, I barely eat, I can’t enjoy any distractions. I am forgetting things. Mailing bills to the wrong vendors at work. Driving past my turns on the road. Yes it’s only been 3 weeks.

On the plus side, I have been given great consolations from our Lord that mom is throwing him out, not having a will… I have great peace with my relationship with my mother but I mourn her life. It was such a sad one!

I know that Our Lord with carry me through this but I seek justice and honestly I’m not really worried about peace right now.

My brother is also a coward. And the only thing that ever held me back from him is my mother’s hand.

I will consider your good counsel because I know I am a little insane right now. I will pray my rosary (which I am terrible at) and try to get myself to Adoration, my greatest hour of peace other than the Mass and Eucharist.

Yes, you need time to heal from your grief. So let the court decide for now to divide the house, include any fees you pay on the estate-so you get reimbursed.

This will not happen overnight, and it will give you a chance to recover a bit before proceeding with anything else. Take one day at a time-don’t let this eat at you.

 

[styrgwillidar]

You need to talk to a lawyer and find out what your liability is as well. If the house gets condemned, who pays for tearing it down? Clearing the lot? Disposing of materials? Hazmat issues? If the house has to be demolished, what’s it gonna cost to build a new one and how long will it take? Can you cover the expense including property taxes. (BTW- are you sure your Mom was able to keep up on all the taxes?) It might be cheaper in the long run to relinquish any interest in the house.

When I was in my 20’s I acquired a 1955 Oldsmobile, in excellent condition with all the original parts and virtually no rust. I was going to restore it myself, but I’d just started in the Navy and didn’t have much spare time, would have had to store it while on deployment etc. My Mom convinced me to ‘help out’ a neighbor’s son by having him get the restoration completed while paying him for work he did, and for arranging work getting done via various shops. Anyway, disaster. Story after story about delays at different shops…
I ended up just signing the car over to him to get off the title and ensure I wouldn’t be liable for anything involving the car in the future. Was I taken? Yes. Was it unfair/unjust? Yes. Some times you have to know when to walk away vice continuing to sink time, emotion, funds and other resources into an effort.

Forgiveness sometimes can be more about attaining peace for yourself by letting go, freeing yourself from the past, than it is about any kind of redemption or new start by the person you’re forgiving. This might be the time its better for you mentally, spiritually and emotionally to forgive and sever ties with your brother vice engage in a protracted, ugly, and emotionally draining struggle.

ETA: I think you’re seeking justice. Unfortunately, simply getting him out of the house is not going to achieve justice for all the things he’s done.

 

[Xantippe]

Y**ou need to talk to a lawyer and find out what your liability is as well. If the house gets condemned, who pays for tearing it down? Clearing the lot? Disposing of materials? Hazmat issues? If the house has to be demolished, what’s it gonna cost to build a new one and how long will it take? Can you cover the expense including property taxes. (BTW- are you sure your Mom was able to keep up on all the taxes?) It might be cheaper in the long run to relinquish any interest in the house. **

When I was in my 20’s I acquired a 1955 Oldsmobile, in excellent condition with all the original parts and virtually no rust. I was going to restore it myself, but I’d just started in the Navy and didn’t have much spare time, would have had to store it while on deployment etc. My Mom convinced me to ‘help out’ a neighbor’s son by having him get the restoration completed while paying him for work he did, and for arranging work getting done via various shops. Anyway, disaster. Story after story about delays at different shops…
I ended up just signing the car over to him to get off the title and ensure I wouldn’t be liable for anything involving the car in the future. Was I taken? Yes. Was it unfair/unjust? Yes. Some times you have to know when to walk away vice continuing to sink time, emotion, funds and other resources into an effort.

Forgiveness sometimes can be more about attaining peace for yourself by letting go, freeing yourself from the past, than it is about any kind of redemption or new start by the person you’re forgiving. This might be the time its better for you mentally, spiritually and emotionally to forgive and sever ties with your brother vice engage in a protracted, ugly, and emotionally draining struggle.

ETA: I think you’re seeking justice. Unfortunately, simply getting him out of the house is not going to achieve justice for all the things he’s done.

Yes.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Yes.

Another thought-- as a squatter with you as joint owners, could he demand you pay for repairs jointly? Put you in the position that not only he’s in the house, but you’re on the hook for repairs that will only benefit him and give him control over you. You might be able to demand he leave as a condition of doing the repairs, but I’m no lawyer.

Seriously, get a lawyer, signing it over to him might be cheapest in the long run.

 

[Xantippe]

Another thought-- as a squatter with you as joint owners, could he demand you pay for repairs jointly? Put you in the position that not only he’s in the house, but you’re on the hook for repairs that will only benefit him and give him control over you. You might be able to demand he leave as a condition of doing the repairs, but I’m no lawyer.

Seriously, get a lawyer, signing it over to him might be cheapest in the long run.

Ay yay yay.

Also, come to think of it, what if he doesn’t shovel the walk (what are the odds?) and there’s a slip-and-fall in front of the house that the four of you jointly own?

 

[As_for_my_House]

Another thought-- as a squatter with you as joint owners, could he demand you pay for repairs jointly? Put you in the position that not only he’s in the house, but you’re on the hook for repairs that will only benefit him and give him control over you. You might be able to demand he leave as a condition of doing the repairs, but I’m no lawyer.

Seriously, get a lawyer, signing it over to him might be cheapest in the long run.

The good part is though I am entitled to 1/4 of the house, I have not filed for administrator duties, so I don’t own it. I was hoping to have a “we buy your house in any condition” person come out take a look and give me an offer. If he thought that there were serious problems then I would look to have it condemned. if not I would petition to become administrator, hoping that an offer of some money would get my brother out of the house.

My other brother lives only around the corner from my mothers house with his 15 year old daughter. His daughter would spend a great deal of her free time w my mother but she also likes to visit the 2 babies that live with their teen mom(now 21) at moms house. My dangerous brother is nice to her. I think he is grooming her for whatever sick pleasure he gets out of treating her well.
I have theories about why he has chosen her to be nice to but none are good, mainly he has been able to convince her that he is not such a bad guy. ** This is why I keep thinking that I can’t walk away. **

I have been bringing her to my house every weekend but I can’t keep this up. I can’t convince her that she should not be over there in the house w him. Her father agrees but he suffers from mental illness and so does her mom, he doesn’t have much influence over her. She has often taken the role of only adult in her home at times. She is a very good girl, number two student in her high school . Still she is only a kid, very innocent and does not know the whole story about her uncle.She thinks that we are being mean to make them move. I want her to understand but I don’t want to tell her about the rapes. She does know about the violence but has been groomed to think that everyone deserved it.

 

[Xantippe]

The good part is though I am entitled to 1/4 of the house, I have not filed for administrator duties, so I don’t own it. I was hoping to have a “we buy your house in any condition” person come out take a look and give me an offer. If he thought that there were serious problems then I would look to have it condemned. if not I would petition to become administrator, hoping that an offer of some money would get my brother out of the house.

My other brother lives only around the corner from my mothers house with his 15 year old daughter. His daughter would spend a great deal of her free time w my mother but she also likes to visit the 2 babies that live with their teen mom(now 21) at moms house. My dangerous brother is nice to her. I think he is grooming her for whatever sick pleasure he gets out of treating her well.
I have theories about why he has chosen her to be nice to but none are good, mainly he has been able to convince her that he is not such a bad guy. ** This is why I keep thinking that I can’t walk away. **

I have been bringing her to my house every weekend but I can’t keep this up. I can’t convince her that she should not be over there in the house w him. Her father agrees but he suffers from mental illness and so does her mom, he doesn’t have much influence over her. She has often taken the role of only adult in her home at times. She is a very good girl, number two student in her high school . Still she is only a kid, very innocent and does not know the whole story about her uncle.She thinks that we are being mean to make them move. I want her to understand but I don’t want to tell her about the rapes. She does know about the violence but has been groomed to think that everyone deserved it.

Telling your niece about the rape may be the only way to keep her safe from her uncle.

Talk to her parents and your sister that was a victim, clear it with them, and then make sure she knows.

This is quite a separate issue from the house itself and there’s no need to mix up the two things.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

The good part is though I am entitled to 1/4 of the house, I have not filed for administrator duties, so I don’t own it. I was hoping to have a “we buy your house in any condition” person come out take a look and give me an offer. If he thought that there were serious problems then I would look to have it condemned. if not I would petition to become administrator, hoping that an offer of some money would get my brother out of the house.

My other brother lives only around the corner from my mothers house with his 15 year old daughter. His daughter would spend a great deal of her free time w my mother but she also likes to visit the 2 babies that live with their teen mom(now 21) at moms house. My dangerous brother is nice to her. I think he is grooming her for whatever sick pleasure he gets out of treating her well.
I have theories about why he has chosen her to be nice to but none are good, mainly he has been able to convince her that he is not such a bad guy. ** This is why I keep thinking that I can’t walk away. **

I have been bringing her to my house every weekend but I can’t keep this up. I can’t convince her that she should not be over there in the house w him. Her father agrees but he suffers from mental illness and so does her mom, he doesn’t have much influence over her. She has often taken the role of only adult in her home at times. She is a very good girl, number two student in her high school . Still she is only a kid, very innocent and does not know the whole story about her uncle.She thinks that we are being mean to make them move. I want her to understand but I don’t want to tell her about the rapes. She does know about the violence but has been groomed to think that everyone deserved it.

That is scary. For the sake of her safety I would tell her about the rapes. My mother told me about herself being raped by a relative when I was maybe 11 or 12 and for nowhere near as good of a reason as you have. Actually I was somehow able to guess and she confirmed that my guess was correct. Your niece sounds like she is quite mature, I think she can handle knowing the truth. I was nowhere near mature at 11 or 12 and I was able to handle it. It did not scar me. It did not make me hate the man that did that to my mother either. It happened a long time ago, I let it go just like I want God to forgive me for my trespasses. Really, think about it. I do not think it counts as detraction if knowing the truth can potentially keep her away from this sick man.

I would also tell that man that if he were to do anything to that young girl that I would do absolutely everything in my power to make sure he is arrested and convicted for his crime. I would tell him that I will do all I can to make sure that he will not get away with it.

 

[Xantippe]

**What will upset your niece more, hearing about the rapes or being raped herself? **

This is why you need to tell her and NOW. She is being groomed by this man and no one is telling her that he raped his sister for years? Tell her now, it will shock and sicken her yes, but it won’t shock and sicken her as much as what he is planning on doing to her and you know it.

Right.

 

[mommy_k]

I am sorry you have so many things going on in your life right now.

Of course you want to warn your neice to stay away from your brother, however, if her parents are well enough mentally to raise her, they should be included in the conversation, and they should be reminded of this to further protect her. If they are not capable of understanding this, your niece needs a competant guardian at this age-she is a minor.

As for your brother-I know the pain you are feeling is severe. You need time to heal before proceeding and it should be taken on when your feelings are not as raw.

I would work on that, because as you know, holding on to these feelings will end up hurting you more then him in the long run.

 

[As_for_my_House]

I will consider telling her but only with her parents and my sisters consent.

 

[Xantippe]

I will consider telling her but only with her parents and my sisters consent.

That’s fair.

If they don’t want you sharing the whole story with her, I wonder if it would be acceptable to them if you mentioned that you know that he has repeatedly raped a girl her age in the past. Also, if two family members told the same story, it might be more convincing to her. At the very least, it will make her less vulnerable to him and less trusting, even if she doesn’t 100% believe you.

In fact, it’s such a serious issue and the danger is so imminent that I would be tempted to tell her that he is a rapist even without permission from her parents.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I will consider telling her but only with her parents and my sisters consent.

Well, I hope they agree or tell her themselves. In fact, you can push that they be the ones to tell her. It can protect her. Even if they say no, I would still tell your brother that I will be his worst nightmare legally if he does anything to that girl.In fact, I would tell her anyways, but that is just me. The danger is bad enough. Nobody can tell you what to do. Good luck and God bless

 

[As_for_my_House]

Well, I hope they agree or tell her themselves. In fact, you can push that they be the ones to tell her. It can protect her. Even if they say no, I would still tell your brother that I will be his worst nightmare legally if he does anything to that girl.In fact, I would tell her anyways, but that is just me. The danger is bad enough. Nobody can tell you what to do. Good luck and God bless

I’m assuming you are a guy. I’m a 55 year old woman and my brother has guns, (not for hunting either). I can’t be anyone’s nightmare unless I’m willing to get a gun and go Clint Eastwood on him. The city police are terribly laid back when it comes to domestic affairs.

I over the year, I have tried to help my mother, and siblings go to the proper authorities. No one feels safe when a hate filled person owns guns.

One story I have to point this out, is about the day his oldest daughter brought her boyfriend to visit for Christmas. My brother took a bullet and put it in a small gift bag and gave it to him. He told him" this is what’s going to happen to you, if anything happens to my daughter". I wanted the boyfriend to report the incident to the police. My brother claimed that it was just a joke. The boyfriend never came around again.

If I could just find a way to get him out of that house…

 

[Xantippe]

I’m assuming you are a guy. I’m a 55 year old woman and my brother has guns, (not for hunting either). I can’t be anyone’s nightmare unless I’m willing to get a gun and go Clint Eastwood on him. The city police are terribly laid back when it comes to domestic affairs.

I over the year, I have tried to help my mother, and siblings go to the proper authorities. No one feels safe when a hate filled person owns guns.

One story I have to point this out, is about the day his oldest daughter brought her boyfriend to visit for Christmas. My brother took a bullet and put it in a small gift bag and gave it to him. He told him" this is what’s going to happen to you, if anything happens to my daughter". I wanted the boyfriend to report the incident to the police. My brother claimed that it was just a joke. The boyfriend never came around again.

If I could just find a way to get him out of that house…

The house isn’t the problem.