Justified by Faith Alone cf. James 2:24

[mackbrislawn]

The fact Catholics believe my scenarios pleases me!!! Others on this forum have indicated otherwise.

There is no difference but Protestant don’t believe that will be said to them. Jesus will say “YOU HAVE SAVING FAITH. PLEASE COME IN.”

The proof James speaks of is for our understanding that works are a result of authentic faith. Works are a natural fruit of saving faith.

Good, we’re starting to understand.

But, how does Jesus know you have saving faith and therefore lets you in? Because of the works you have done!

Either way, works are essential for admission to heaven.

 

[JustaSinner]

JustaSinner, as long as one professes that we are saved by Grace, through Faith, Working in Love, Catholic’s say Amen. Faith is never separated from works of Charity. I think you are saying this above. That’s why of Faith, Hope and Love, the greatest is Love. Every time scripture speaks of our standing before God, including St. Paul, we are judged by our works. Hence, James says we are saved by Works, NOT by Faith Alone (the only time in the bible those two words are ever used).

As to the use of the term faith alone–there are multiple legitimate senses of the term. 1. The singular nature of the instrument of faith in justification, namely, faith in Christ alone is the means of justification, which is why many of the Church fathers use the term “sola fide” in reference to Paul’s use of the term. 2. A dead faith which is alone, devoid of love, hope, etc. Obviously, the reformers use “faith alone” in the 1st sense, while James uses it in the 2nd sense.

As to our future judgment being based on works, this is a fundamental truth that the reformers embraced. They speak of the judgment of our works, not only as a test of whether we had saving faith, but also affirm the truth that God rewards our good works both with eternal riches and blessings and with eternal life itself. They note, of course, that the reward of eternal life for good works is based on God’s free promise in Christ apart from the strict deserving of our works (Christ, received by faith, and His perfect life and death, are the true meritorious cause for the reward). According to strict deserving even our good works would condemn us before the Awesome Holiness of God as Bernard of Clairvaux and other pre-reformation teachers of the Church note, because of the taint of the flesh in all that we say, think and do.

God Bless.

 

[JustaSinner]

I would ask you to cite who in 1500 years of Christian history before Father Luther first espoused this interpretation of St. Paul?

While the doctrine of justification by faith alone certainly underwent significant development during the reformation [note my use of the very Catholic doctrine of “development of doctrine” ], it is ultimately a doctrine that is rooted firmly in the Scriptures and in the historic teachings of the Church.

Hugo of St. Victor (c. 1096 – 11 February 1141), in quaest. circa Epist. ad Rom. quazst. 101, in discussing the words “Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness”:

If man had not sinned, he would have possessed every kind of righteousness, which consists in every kind of fulfilling of God’s commands.-—But after, and on account of sin, man could not acquire that perfect righteousness to which eternal happiness is deservedly due; but God of his grace gives faith to man, which he likewise reckons, through the same grace, in room of that perfection, just as if he were possessed of an entire righteousness.

Here are few key “justification by faith alone” points drawn from the historic teachings of the Church:

1. The remission of sins causes us to have perfect forensic righteousness so that those who have not fulfilled the Righteous Law of God (i.e. everyone) are reckoned as though they had. As Augustine says: “All the commandments of God are fulfilled when that which is not done is forgiven.” (Retractions Book 1, 19:3). Of course, this is true because the remission of sins is the covering of our unrighteousness with Christ’s perfectly righteous Blood.

and

1. The very imperfect nature of our infused intrinsic righteousness, which leaves us condemned rather than justified apart from the covering of Christ’s Blood (i.e. our only hope is the mercy of Christ’s alien/extrinsic righteousness, since our intrinsic righteousness is tainted or a “filthy rag” and “mere unrighteousness” if strictly judged as Bernard of Clairvaux notes:

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. But what can all our righteousness be before God? Shall it not, according to the prophet, be viewed as a filthy rag: and, if it be strictly judged, shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency ? What, then, shall it be concerning sins, when not even our righteousness itself can answer for itself ? Wherefore, vehemently exclaiming with the prophet, Enter not into judgment with thy servant, O Lord, let us, with all humility, flee to mercy; which alone can save our souls" Feast of All Saints Sermon 1

and

1. That “faith alone” is the means by which we obtain the perfect forensic/extrinsic righteousness of the remission of sins:
   Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384) commenting upon 1 Cor. 1:4b:“God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone (sola fide) he receives the forgiveness of sins."

 

[JustaSinner]

[Continued]

The Anglican Homily on Justification notes further:

Because all men be sinners and offenders against God, and breakers of his law and commandments, therefore can no man by his own acts, works, and deeds (seem they never so good) be justified, and made righteous before God: but every man of necessity is constrained to seek for another righteousness or justification, to be received at God’s own hands, that is to say, the forgiveness of his sins and trespasses, in such things as he hath offended. And this justification or righteousness, which we so receive of God’s mercy and Christ’s merits. embraced by faith, is taken, accepted and allowed of God, for our perfect and full justification.

…And Saint Ambrose [Ambrosiaster], a Latin Author, saith these words, This is the ordinance of God, that they which believe in Christ, should be saved without works, by faith only, freely receiving remission of their sins. Consider diligently these words, Without works by faith only, freely we receive remission of our sins. What can be spoken more plainly, then to say, That freely without works, by faith only we obtain remission of our sins? These and other like sentences, that we be justified by faith only, freely, and without works, we do read oft times in the most best and ancient writers. As beside Hilary, Basil, and Saint Ambrose before rehearsed, we read the same in Origen, Saint Chrysostom, Saint Cyprian, Saint Augustine, Prosper, Oecumenius, Phocius, Bernardus, Anselm, and many other Authors, Greek, and Latin. Nevertheless, this sentence, that we be justified by faith only, is not so meant of them, that the said justifying faith is alone in man, without true repentance, hope, charity, dread, and the fear of God, at any time and season…

Finally, On the awesome truth of seeking and resting in the mercy and merits of Christ for Salvation rather than the deserving due to our own faithfulness, Anselm says in his instructions to those near the point of death:

Come, then, while life remains in you. In his death alone place your whole trust; in nothing else place any trust;….with this alone cover yourself wholly; and if the Lord your God wills to judge you, say: Lord, between your judgment and me I present the death of our Lord Jesus Christ; in no other way can I contend with you. And if he shall say that you are a sinner, say: Lord, I interpose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my sins and you. If he should say that you deserve condemnation, say: Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my evil deserts and you, and his merits I offer for those which I ought to have and have not. If he says that he is angry with you, say: Lord, I oppose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between your wrath and me. And when you have completed this, say again: Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and you.

 

[JustaSinner]

How can you speak of salvation by faith alone if your works play a role in your salvation, in this case the possibility of losing salvation?

This gets down to the question of what the term “faith alone” means. Works may certainly be said to play a role inasmuch of they are inseparable from a saving faith (and the role of works is especially pronounced in regards to sanctification vs. forensic justification), yet the doctrine of faith alone insists that in a very important sense, works have no role in salvation. I’ll let the the Anglican Homily on Justification do the rest of the talking on this matter:

But justification is the office of God only, and is not a thing which we render unto him, but which we receive of him: not which we give to him, but which we take of him, by his free mercy, and by the only merits of his most dearly beloved Son, our only Redeemer, Saviour, and Justifier Jesus Christ: so that the true understanding of this doctrine, We be justified freely by faith without works, or that we be justified by faith in Christ only, is not, that this our own act, to believe in Christ, or this our faith in Christ, which is within us, doth justify us, and deserve our justification unto us (for that were to count ourselves to be justified by some act or virtue that is within ourselves) but the true understanding and meaning thereof is, that although we hear God’s word, and believe it, although we have faith, hope, charity, repentance, dread, and fear of God within us, and do never so many works thereunto: yet we must renounce the merit of all our said virtues, of faith, hope, charity, and all other virtues and good deeds, which we either have done, shall do, or can do, as things that be far too weak and insufficient, and imperfect, to deserve remission of our sins, and our justification, and therefore we must trust only in God’s mercy, and that sacrifice which our high Priest and Saviour Christ Jesus the son of God once offered for us upon the Cross, to obtain thereby God’s grace, and remission, as well of our original sin in Baptism, as of all actual sin committed by us after our Baptism, if we truly repent, and turn unfeignedly to him again. So that as St. John Baptist, although he were never so virtuous and Godly a man, yet in this matter of forgiving of sin, he did put the people from him, and appointed them unto Christ, saying thus unto them, Behold, yonder is the lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world: even so, as great and as Godly a virtue as the lively faith is, yet it putteth us from itself, and remitteth or appointeth us unto Christ, for to have only by him remission of our sins, or justification. So that our faith in Christ (as it were) saith unto us thus (Jn 1), It is not I that take away your sins, but it is Christ only, and to him only I send your for that purpose, forsaking therein all your good virtues, words, thoughts, and works, and only putting your trust in Christ.

IT hath been manifestly declared unto you, that no man can fulfil the Law of God, and therefore by the law all men are condemned: whereupon it followeth necessarily, that some other thing should be required for our salvation then the law: and that is, a true and a lively faith in Christ: bringing forth good works, and a life according to God’s commandments.

I’m out at least until tomorrow evening or the weekend (if not later). Thanks for the discussion.

 

[LatinRight]

Good, we’re starting to understand.

But, how does Jesus know you have saving faith and therefore lets you in? Because of the works you have done!

Either way, works are essential for admission to heaven.

**God bless Mackbrislawn and every readers of the CAF.

We enter to heaven by Grace alone, by Faith alone, Apart from works!!! **

Anything less is the Galatians Heresy, we can contribute NOTHING to our free gift of salvation. – For God’s chosen sons and daughters/elect, heaven is God’s free gift, apart from works.

There is only ONE CONDITION to enter through the Pearly Gate, someone must be among God’s elect from all eternity!!!

**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE *Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

**THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):**

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

Rom.4:5-6
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.

1 Cor.3:12-15;
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15** If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss** but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

As we see above; if some ones all works rejected by God, still allowed entry to heaven.

To enter to heaven work is NOT A CONDITION.

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE? by James Akin

Quote: “In fact, in TRADITIONAL WORKS OF CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, one regularly encounters the statement that FORMED FAITH IS JUSTIFYING FAITH. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.

**Sola fide formata = FORMED FAITH ALONE
THE COMPOSITE OF GOD’S GIFT OF FORMED FAITH:

a. BELIEF (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)

b. HOPE (Unconditional TRUST in God.)

c. CHARITY (Unconditional LOVE for God.)**

Quote: 7. On the subject of the kind of justification discussed in James 2:24, Trent quotes this verse only once and then applies it to progressive, not initial justification, so one does not have to do good works to get into a state of justification; good works are fruits of the state of justification, not causes for entering it.

The fact this passage does not refer to initial justification should be obvious since the justification of Abraham it refers to occurred years after Abraham was first justified by faith in Genesis 12, when By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go (Heb. 11:8).

Thus James 2:24 refers to later, progressive justification, by which one grows in righteousness, not initial justification, when ones sins are forgiven. End quote.

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan

Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS.

ANNEX TO THE OFFICIAL COMMON STATEMENT

C. Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25).

D. "Whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it“ (JD 25).

1. The doctrine of justification is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith. No teaching may contradict this criterion. In this sense, the doctrine of justification is an "indispensable criterion which constantly serves to orient all the teaching and practice of our churches to Christ“ (JD l8).

AS WE SEE ABOVE

Heaven is God’s free gift for us God’s chosen sons and daughters/elect.

We enter to heaven:
"By grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25).

Our good works is NOT A CONDITION (Rom.4:4-6; 1 Cor.3:12-15) to enter heaven.

Our good works/supernatural works is the condition that we have rewards in heaven.

In fact, our position and glory in heaven is determined by God according to the outcome of the judgment of our works.

We all should do as much supernatural works as we can, but our good works is NOT a condition for us to enter to heaven.

If we say: No works, No heaven, that is our rejection of God’s free gift of heaven!!!

**Of course, we all should do as much supernatural works as we can.
**

When we will all agree with the above teachings of the Catholic Church and with the Scripture, we will agree with each other.

God bless Mackbrislawn and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[JonNC]

I believe the fuller quote is important:

*James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.*

As a Protestant, who believes in the historic doctrine of sola fide, I believe that my fellow Protestants often twist themselves in exegetical knots trying to make James only speak of the “evidence” of justification. While the passage does speak of works as providing evidence of faith, it seems clear to me that he is giving works a substantive role in “justification” itself. James makes clear that works “justify” inasmuch as without them faith is a dead and useless instrument for the purpose of justification. Paul says the same, “faith which worketh (or, “is effectual”) by love” Galatians 5:6.

Paul makes clear that faith alone is the instrument by which we stand justified before God. However, this faith is necessarily and always accompanied by love/good works. Luther himself notes the following on Galatians 5:6 in his Commentary on Galatians:
Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love.
Faith must of course be sincere. It must be a faith that performs good works through love. If faith lacks love it is not true faith. Thus the Apostle bars the way of hypocrites to the kingdom of Christ on all sides. He declares on the one hand, “In Christ Jesus circumcision availeth nothing,” i.e., works avail nothing, but faith alone, and that without any merit whatever, avails before God. On the other hand, the Apostle declares that without fruits faith serves no purpose. To think, “If faith justifies without works, let us work nothing,” is to despise the grace of God. Idle faith is not justifying faith.
studylight.org/commentaries/mlg/galatians-5.html

The traditional Anglican treatment on Justification by Faith Alone (Book of Homilies I, Homily on Justification) likewise notes how after justification, living contrary to Christ causes apostasy from our salvation in Christ:
“Our office is not to pass the time of this present life unfruitfully and idly after we are baptized or justified, not caring how few good works we do to the glory of God and profit of our neighbors. Much less is it our office, after that we be once made Christ’s members,
to live contrary to the same, making our selves members of the devil, walking after his incitements, and after the suggestions of the world and the flesh, whereby we know that we do serve the world and the devil, and not GOD.” anglicanlibrary.org/homilies/bk1hom03.htm

Or, as the Anglican reformer Latimer affirms the necessity of the justified walking in obedience vs. disobedience:
"I put the case, Joseph had not resisted the temptations of his master’s wife, but had followed her, and fulfilled the act of lechery with her ; had weighed the matter after a worldly fashion, thinking, “I have my mistress’s favour already, and so by that mean I shall have my master’s favour too ; nobody knowing of it.”…And that man or woman that committeth such an act, loseth the Holy Ghost and the remission of sins ; and so becometh the child of the devil, being before the child of God. For a regenerate man or woman, that believeth, ought to have dominion over sin ; but as soon as sin hath rule over him, he is gone: for she leadeth him to delectation of it, and from delectation to consenting, and so from consenting to the act itself. Now he that is led so with sin, he is in the state of damnation, and sinneth damnably. And so ye may perceive which be they that sin deadly, and what is the deadly sin; namely, that he sinneth deadly that wittingly falleth in sin: therefore it is a perilous thing to be in such an estate, to be in the state of damnation and everlasting perdition.”[THE SIXTH SERMON, PREACHED ON THE FIRST SUNDAY IN ADVENT, 1552, BY MASTER HUGH LATIMER]

Luther likewise states:
“29. Therefore, saints must, by a vigorous and unceasing warfare, subdue their sinful lusts if they would not lose God’s grace and their faith. Paul says in Romans 8, 13: “If ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” In order, then, to retain the Spirit and the incipient divine life, the Christian must contend against himself.”
orlutheran.com/html/mlseco31.html

Luther unfortunately embraced a popular scholarly opinion of the day shared by his primary Catholic opponent, Cardinal Cajetan–namely that James was not a fully canonical book. Consequently, he allowed his dislike of James’ terminology to obscure the substantive agreement he had with the teaching of the Book of James.

Well said.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Okay, so a Catholic dies and arrives at the pearly gates, and St. Peter says, show me your works so I can let you into heaven.

A Protestant dies and arrives at the pearly gates, and St. Peter says, show me your works that prove you have saving faith.

What is the difference?

Not much.

Jon

 

[ajcstr]

The proof James speaks of is for our understanding that works are a result of authentic faith. Works are a natural fruit of saving faith.

And the absence of works is the absence of a saving faith so works are a key part of justification which requires a saving faith.

 

[Cathoholic]

drblank1 concerning an adulterer (parenthetical addition mine for clarity):

If that (adulterer) man was selected/elected as defined in Romans 8:30, an authentic, born-again, regenerated-by-God Christian, then yes. He will go to Heaven.

St. Paul (in 1st Corinthians 6) concerning adulterers:

Do not deceive yourselves. NO ADULTERER will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

NOT St. Paul:

Well I guess adulterers will go to heaven even without repentance (after all. You are justified by faith ALONE) as long as they were selected/elected as defined in Romans 8:30.

 

[JustaSinner]

Hello Cathoholic,

While I’m not Calvinist on my understanding of perseverance (as will be obvious from my prior posts in this thread), I would note that the traditional Calvinist view is distinguishable from the position maintained by Dr. Blank.

The traditional Calvinist view insists that perseverance to death in obedience to Christ is essential for entering glory (which includes, necessarily, repentance from serious sins prior to death–as the many notable Calvinist’s point out). In fact, the traditional Calvinist view tracks closely (in its understanding of perseverance in holiness) with the Augustinian understanding of the gift of final perseverance given exclusively and irrevocably to the elect.

Here’s the notable Calvinist theologian John Owens comments, for instance, on the works of mortification/sanctification being the necessary means of inhering eternal life:

That what I have of direction to contribute to the carrying on of the work of mortification in believers may receive order and perspicuity, I shall lay the foundation of it in those words of the apostle, Rom. viii. 13, “If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body you shall live;” and reduce the whole to an improvement of the great evangelical truth and mystery contained in them.
…
Now, the connection and coherence of things being manifold, as of cause and effect, of way and means and the end, this between mortification and life is not of cause and effect properly and strictly, — for “eternal life is the gift of God through Jesus Christ,” Rom. vi. 23, — but of means and end. God has appointed this means for the attaining that end, which he has freely promised. Means, though necessary, have a fair subordination to an end of free promise. A gift, and procuring cause in him to whom it is given, are inconsistent. The intendment, then, of this proposition as conditional is, that there is a certain infallible connection and coherence between true mortification and eternal life: if you use this means, you shall obtain that end; if you do mortify, you shall live. And herein lies the main motive unto and enforcement of the duty prescribed.
…
Assuredly, he that pleads in the most secret reserve of his heart that he is freed from the condemning power of the law, thereby secretly to countenance himself in giving the least allowance unto any sin or lust, is not able, on gospel grounds, to manage any evidence, unto any tolerable spiritual security, that indeed he is in a due manner freed from what he so pretends himself to be delivered. (Of the Mortification of Sin in Believers)

faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/spiritualformation/texts/owen_mortificationofsin.pdf)

Or, as Jonathan Edwards, another notable Calvinist and firm believer in sola fide, says:

Here, if I may humbly express what seems evident to me, though faith be indeed the condition of justification so as nothing else is, yet this matter is not clearly and sufficiently explained by saying that faith is the condition of justification, and that because the word seems ambiguous, both in common use, and also as used in divinity. In one sense, Christ alone performs the condition of our justification and salvation. In another sense, faith is the condition of justification, and in another sense, other qualifications and acts are conditions of salvation and justification too.

…For there are many things that accompany and flow from faith, with which justification shall be, and without which, it will not be, and therefore are found to be put in Scripture in conditional propositions with justification and salvation, in multitudes of places. Such are love to God, and love to our brethren, forgiving men their trespasses, and many other good qualifications and acts. And there are many other things besides faith, which are directly proposed to us, to be pursued or performed by us, in order to eternal life, which if they are done, or obtained, we shall have eternal life, and if not done, or not obtained, we shall surely perish. And if faith was the only condition of justification in this sense, I do not apprehend that to say faith was the condition of justification, would express the sense of that phrase of Scripture, of being justified by faith.(Sermon on Justification by Faith Alone)

biblebb.com/files/edwards/justification.htm

Finally, as the Calvinist Thomas Watson summarizes it:

The soul being so precious, and salvation so glorious—it is the highest point of prudence to make preparations for the eternal world. It is beyond all dispute, that there is an inheritance in light; and it is most strenuously asserted in Holy Scripture that there must be a fitness and suitability for it (Col. 1:12). If anyone asks, “Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord?” the answer is, “He who has clean hands, and a pure heart” (Psalm 24:4). (The Godly Man’s Picture)

gracegems.org/Watson/godly_mans_picture1.htm

I may be unavailable for a week or so, but have a good Lord’s Day everyone.

 

[JustaSinner]

Before I take my leave for the next week or more, a few more memorable quotes from Thomas Watson on the necessity of holiness for Salvation:

He has the same judgment as God; he thinks of things as God does; he has a Godlike disposition; he “partakes of the divine nature” (2Pet. 1:4). A godly man bears both God’s name and image;godliness is God-likeness. It is one thing to profess God, another thing to resemble him. A godly man is like God in holiness. Holiness is the most brilliant pearl in the King of Heaven’s crown: “glorious in holiness” (Exod. 15:11). God’s power makes him mighty; his mercy makes him lovely; but his holiness makes him glorious. The holiness of God is the intrinsic purity of his nature and his abhorrence of sin. A godly man bears some kind of analogy with God in this. He has the holy oil of consecration upon him: “Aaron the saint of the Lord” (Psa. 106:16). Holiness is the badge and mark of Christ’s people: “The people of your holiness” (Isa. 63:18). The godly are a holy as well as a royal priesthood (1Pet. 2:9). Nor do they have only a frontispiece of holiness, like the Egyptian temples which were only fair outside; but they are like Solomon’s temple, which had gold inside. They have written upon their heart, “Holiness to the Lord.” The holiness of the saints consists in their conformity to God’s will, which is the rule and pattern of all holiness.

Holiness is a man’s glory. Aaron put on garments “for glory and for beauty” (Exod. 28:2). So when a person is invested with the embroidered garment of holiness, it is for glory and beauty. The goodness of a Christian lies in his holiness, just as the goodness of the air lies in its clarity, and the worth of gold lies in its purity.
…
Use 1: How can those who are unlike God be reputed to be godly? They have nothing of God in them, not one shred of holiness. They call themselves Christians, but blot out the word holiness; you may as well call it day at midnight.

…Does the apostle not say that “without holiness no man shall see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14)? Those who bless themselves in their unholiness had best go ring the bells for joy, that they shall never see God.
…
Holiness is that alone, which God is delighted with…Holiness is God’s stamp and impress; if he does not see this stamp on us, he will not own us. (Godly Man’s Picture, 1666AD)

onthewing.org/user/Watson%20-%20The%20Godly%20Man%27s%20Picture.pdf

 

[Cathoholic]

In post 782 (here) Debbie Kono asked EXPLICITLY about a “church leader” who became and unrepentant adulterer. He of course by definition, dies unrepentant in that state of adultery in this hypothetical.

St. Paul just as explicitly warns us . . . . not to deceive ourselves in this scenario.

St. Paul says these adulterers WILL NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

drblank1 thinks this adulterer gets to go to Heaven anyway, as long as he had “faith” (because after all, you are justified by faith ALONE right drblank1?) citing Ephesians 1:4-5 (which ironically does not directly even mention the word “faith” in those verses but DOES mention “love” and how we should be “holy” and “blameless”!).

EPHESIANS 1:4-5 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. 5 He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will . . .

drblank1 also appealed to Romans 8 to attempt to put forth the tradition of Once Saved, Always Saved.

Specifically Romans 8:29, which ALSO does NOT mention the word “faith” and specifically says these predestined individuals are CONFORMED in the image of Christ (recall Adam and Eve and all mankind are made in the IMAGE and likeness of God too but Adam and Eve threw Paradise away anyway).

And we are predestined to be “conformed” to “the image of Christ” too.

• Predestined to be “conformed in the image of Christ”
• Not predestined to lack the free will to reject eternal life despite being “conformed in the image of Christ”

But drblank1 pretends that says: we are predestined to “persevere” in this “conformity” to “the image of Christ” even if we freely choose not to (but the verse never says that).

And there is NO MENTION here of “faith” (I agree “faith” is implicit. But so are other things that don’t fit into an invention of faith ALONE, such as “hope” which IS explicitly mentioned how we get saved in Romans 8:24) and obedience (“works” done in GRACE).

“Faith” isn’t even mentioned in the verses drblank1 appeals to!

ROMANS 8:29 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE of his Son, in order that he MIGHT be the first-born among many brethren.

And drblank1 IGNORES just a few verses earlier in Romans 8:17 telling us we are co-heirs with Christ . . . . PROVIDED WE . . . . (what?) . . . .

PROVIDED we have “faith ALONE”?

No! (If you go and look, you won’t even find the word “faith” or “believe” or “belief” even mentioned in Romans 8. Anywhere!

Yet drblank1 wants you to gamble your soul on his invented tradition of men that makes void the Word of God and pretend it does!

Back to Romans 8:17 . . . .

We are co-heirs with Christ . . . . PROVIDED WE . . . . (what?) . . . .

. . . . . Provided we suffer WITH Him in order that we MIGHT be glorified with Him.

ROMANS 8:17 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

If ever St. Paul had a chance to say we are saved by faith ALONE, Romans 8:17 would be it.

NOT ROMANS 8:17 (but a phantom verse) 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we have faith ALONE in him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

Yet St. Paul doesn’t say that (but drblank1 does).

NOT ROMANS 8:17 (but a drblank1 phantom verse) 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we have faith ALONE him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

And I guarantee if St. Paul would have talked about “faith” here in any sense (but he would NEVER say we are saved by faith ALONE) I guarantee we’d be hearing no end from drblank1 and others how this really shows faith ALONE (when it wouldn’t).

These are the kinds of stretches of the imagination the faith ALONE crowd NEEDS to go to, in order to prop up this pestilent false doctrine of justification by faith ALONE that has tickled the ears of so many.

Don’t buy into it.

There is NOT ONE VERSE that says we are justified by faith ALONE.

But the faith ALONE tradition followers have built a whole house of cards with this sand foundation.

Please don’t buy into it.

 

[Cathoholic]

JustaSinner:

While I’m not Calvinist on my understanding of perseverance (as will be obvious from my prior posts in this thread), I would note that the traditional Calvinist view is distinguishable from the position maintained by Dr. Blank.

The traditional Calvinist view insists that perseverance to death in obedience to Christ is essential . . .

Yep.

Aside from Calvinism vrs. various non-Calvinist Bible ONLY treatments of this, I grew up frequenting Baptist theology including Sunday services, Sunday School, youth group, youth camp (although I always remained Catholic) and they’d just say . . . . .

. . . “Well. This adulterer guy was never REALLY SAVED in the first place.” (So much for all that “assurance”).

He was never saved in the first place despite him thinking he was and everybody else thought he was.

OR others would say . . .

. . . . "Yes. He commits adultery but since he accepted Jesus into his heart as “personal Lord and Savior” this is merely “backsliding”.

He is saved anyway they would say (which is the kind of non-sense that drblank1 has been taught somewhere along the way).

Yet St. Paul EXPLICITLY says (with emphasis mine) . . . . .

1st CORINTHIANS 6:9-10b 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals . . . will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Cathoholic]

My bad.

I had drblank1 as appealing to Romans 8:29.

drblank1 said Romans 8:30 (which ALSO doesn’t mention “faith”).

ROMANS 8:30 30 And those whom he predestined he also CALLED; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

I already showed how this being “glorified” is contingent on God . . . . but it is ALSO contingent upon us COOPERATING in GRACE too.

And if we don’t WORK WITH Jesus, we risk excepting this GRACE in VAIN!!

2nd CORINTHIANS 6:1 1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

St. Paul is warning people who HAVE ACCEPTED the “grace of God” to the point where they CAN WORK with Jesus!

He is talking to the SAVED here.

This “calling” in Romans 8:30 goes out to all . . . . “sinners”.

MATTHEW 9:13b 13 For I came not to CALL the righteous, but sinners."

Jesus “CALLS” . . . SINNERS. ALL sinners! (God so loved the WHOLE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son. God did not love merely “part” of the world.)

This is part of the reason WHY the Church teaches God predestines NO ONE to eternal condemnation.

CCC 1037a God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Being “glorified” is contingent on our cooperation too. St. Paul says so.

I already showed one example concerning offering our “suffering” in union with Christ from the SAME St. Paul, from the SAME Romans, in the SAME Romans 8 (none of which was mentioned by drblank1).

ROMANS 8:17 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

There are other contingencies too (mentioned elsewhere in Scripture).

Yet we see here on this thread people who reduce life down to . . .

. . . . this (here) . . .

https://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24080&stc=1&d=1499033470

And this (here) . . .

https://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24081&stc=1&d=1499033470

And condemnation to God PREDESTINING people who He made in His own image and likeness to be tossed into the abyss (which is an utter perverted distortion of God) . . . (here) . . . .

https://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24082&stc=1&d=1499033511

Sandie Shaw - Puppet on a String (Here)

And I am saying this OSAS tradition is deadly wrong and has a built-in utter distortion of God.

 

[Debbie_Kono]

Good, clear, concise apologetics; 841, 842 and 843. Thanks Cathoholic!

I would only add; Who would benefit from leading people to believe in “eternal security”? Answer? The One who told Eve, “you will surely not die the death”. The ONLY place in Scripture eternal security was ever implied.

 

[LatinRight]

**God bless Cathoholic and Debbie Kono and every readers of the CAF.
**

The following teachings of the Catholic Church might explains or clear up your posts in the light of the teachings of the Catholic Church.

**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE *Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

**THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):**

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

WITH AN ABSOLUTE DECREE GOD PREDESTINED HIS CHOSEN SONS AND DAUGHTERS/ELECT TO HEAVEN

For the fulfilment of God’s absolute decree God MAKES His elect to cooperate with His grace without violating their free will.

For an elect to lose his SALVATION/EVERLASTING LIFE and end up in hell, that would be God’s failure and God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.

GOD IS THE ONE WHO SAVES HIS CHILDREN

John 15:16; “You did not chose Me, but I chose you …”

2 Tim.1:9; “God who saved us and called us with holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE …”

Eph.1:11; “… being predestined ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE of Him …”

John 6:44 … NO ONE can come to Me unless the Father DRAWS him.

In other words, when God commands, He capacitates the hearer to respond.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.

Similarly, the Council of Orange Canon 25 states, “In every good work, it is not we who begin … but He (God) first inspires us.” (#329.2)

ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
“For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it.”

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
“It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL.”

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES,PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

The salvation of God’s children/elect always based on God’s initiative.

Phil.1:6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)
And I am sure, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Rom.8:38-39; “For I am convinced that… nothing in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” – If an elect would be separated for any reason and would end up in hell, God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.

**An elect of God, can never lose his salvation, **simply means: An Elect is; Once Saved, Always Saved, can never end up in hell, because he has ETERNAL SECURITY called; God’s special grace, The Gift of Final Perseverance. – *DE FIDE * Dogma (The highest level of binding theological certainty.)

Continue

 

[James248]

Exodus 32:33
And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

This was said of Israel according to the flesh after all of them had been sealed in the blood of the covenant. How is this not even more so for Israel according to the Spirit, those who have been sealed in the Spirit?

How come this still hasn’t been answered?

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

HOW TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT By Etienne Charpentier

Nihil obstate: Father Anton Cowan

Imprimatur: Monsignor John Crowley, VG Westminster, 28 May 1985

Quote: “There is ONE CENTRAL QUESTION here: how can we become RIGHTEOUS and be SAVED?

We NOT justified by what we do (works, observing law) but by FAITH IN CHRIST.

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY from God hands, in faith.” End quote.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this RENEVAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and contributes NOTHING to JUSTIFICATION.

4/37 We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - FOLLOW JUSTIFICATION and ARE ITS FRUITS.

ANNEX TO THE OFFICIAL COMMON STATEMENT

C. Justification takes place "by grace alone“ (JD 15 and 16), by faith alone, the person is justified „apart from works“ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD 25).

D. "Whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it“ (JD 25).

1. The doctrine of justification is measure or touchstone for the Christian faith.No teaching may contradict this criterion. In this sense, the doctrine of justification is an "indispensable criterion which constantly serves to orient all the teaching and practice of our churches to Christ“ (JD l8).

God bless Cathoholic and Debbie Kono and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight