Justified by Faith Alone cf. James 2:24

[JonNC]

Yes, it absolutely does! Not only does it not state, “*n faith [alone]”, but it also does ***not **** say, “works avail nothing”. This statement from the JDDJ explicitly states that initial justification is, “By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part” (cf. Eph. 2:8,9, Titus 3:5) and that proceeding justification , “[W]hile equipping and calling us to good works” (cf. Jame 2:24, Eph. 2:10), is just as vital to our salvation. “[W]hile equipping and calling us to good works” AND “By grace alone, in faith”, both being in the realm of justification.

Where does it say, “initial”?

Luther believed that “works avail nothing”, even after initial justification
And yet, he fervently believed in their necessity for the regenerate. Justification, a gift of God by grace through faith, equips us and calls us to good works. And as we grow in that grace (sanctification), we grow in that call to good works.
Failure to do good works is a rejection of that grace. Luther says to work nothing merely because works do not avail before God is to despise grace.

I’m not Lutheran anymore and not tied in anyway to the Lutheran expression of justification, but I think this is a remarkably positive paradigm, that one does good works, not because it adds to justification, but because Christ calls us to good works, not for our own benefit, but for the benefit of our neighbors.

 

[Faithdancer]

Where does it say, “initial”?

And yet, he fervently believed in their necessity for the regenerate. Justification, a gift of God by grace through faith, equips us and calls us to good works. And as we grow in that grace (sanctification), we grow in that call to good works.
Failure to do good works is a rejection of that grace. Luther says to work nothing merely because works do not avail before God is to despise grace.

I’m not Lutheran anymore and not tied in anyway to the Lutheran expression of justification, but I think this is a remarkably positive paradigm, that one does good works, not because it adds to justification, but because Christ calls us to good works, not for our own benefit, but for the benefit of our neighbors.

Very Biblical paradigm, too.

 

[ajcstr]

Side question … If James 2:24 had said we are sanctified by works rather than justified by works, would you (protestants) be more inclined to just take it at face value?

I think this question got lost in the shuffle. Obviously it says what it says but what I am getting at is that I believe both Catholics and Protestants view this as describing sanctification. However, since the reformers did not view sanctification as a “stage” of justification, the war of words ensues.

 

[AugustTherese]

Where does it say, “initial”?

Both Ephesians 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5-7 are verses that ascribe our justification to Holy Baptism, i.e. initial justification.

“[H]e saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit [Holy Baptism], whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT BEING JUSTIFIED by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:5-7 ESV

Hence, the JDDJ professes: “We confess together that in baptism the Holy Spirit unites one with Christ, justifies, and truly renews the person. But the justified must all through life constantly look to God’s unconditional justifying grace.”

Did you notice the word, “But” in he second sentence? That “But” is there to profess that justification does not end in Holy Baptism, but continues “all through life” allowing God to justify us through His gift of His working in, through, and with us. This is precisely why Saint James exclaims, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works…You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” James 2:21,24 ESV

And yet, he fervently believed in their necessity for the regenerate. Justification, a gift of God by grace through faith, equips us and calls us to good works. And as we grow in that grace (sanctification), we grow in that call to good works.
Failure to do good works is a rejection of that grace. Luther says to work nothing merely because works do not avail before God is to despise grace.

Necessity for what? He believed good works only to be necessary for sanctification and NOT for justification; I still do not understand how a totally and perpetually depraved mind, body, and soul can perform good works. Saint James does not say sanctified by works, no, he clearly states, “JUSTIFIED BY WORKS”.

I’m not Lutheran anymore and not tied in anyway to the Lutheran expression of justification, but I think this is a remarkably positive paradigm, that one does good works, not because it adds to justification, but because Christ calls us to good works, not for our own benefit, but for the benefit of our neighbors.

Benefit for our neighbors?!

“And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” Luke 16:15 NKJV

"For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. " Galatians 1:10 KJV

“But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.” Galatians 6:4 KJV

“Therefore let no man glory in men.” 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." Matthew 6:1 ESV

“Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.” 2 Corinthians 10:12 ESV

 

[ajcstr]

Necessity for what? He believed good works only to be necessary for sanctification and NOT for justification; I still do not understand how a totally and perpetually depraved mind, body, and soul can perform good works. Saint James does not say sanctified by works, no, he clearly states, “JUSTIFIED BY WORKS”.

Nice segway into my question (post 213)

 

[Michael68]

For those who believe we don’t have to do good works. Why do we have the parable of the Good Samaritan? If faith is all you need, he should have passed up the robbery victim also, smug in his faith.

 

[JonNC]

For those who believe we don’t have to do good works. Why do we have the parable of the Good Samaritan? If faith is all you need, he should have passed up the robbery victim also, smug in his faith.

Good question. We’ll see if anyone who believes we don’t have to do good works responds

 

[James248]

Good question. We’ll see if anyone who believes we don’t have to do good works responds

This wouldn’t have happened if someone had ironed out Sola Fide. If faith alone is necessary for salvation, well, does this do away with hope or charity?

Catholics believe that “he who is righteous will live by faith,” period. No adjectives. And we have to be faithful to God. We must believe into God. We also must not despair, and we must love Him in our neighbor. Not faith alone, but faith, hope and love.

 

[James248]

Both Ephesians 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5-7 are verses that ascribe our justification to Holy Baptism, i.e. initial justification.

“[H]e saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit [Holy Baptism], whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT BEING JUSTIFIED by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:5-7 ESV

Hence, the JDDJ professes: “We confess together that in baptism the Holy Spirit unites one with Christ, justifies, and truly renews the person. But the justified must all through life constantly look to God’s unconditional justifying grace.”

Did you notice the word, “But” in he second sentence? That “But” is there to profess that justification does not end in Holy Baptism, but continues “all through life” allowing God to justify us through His gift of His working in, through, and with us. This is precisely why Saint James exclaims, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works…You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” James 2:21,24 ESV

Necessity for what? He believed good works only to be necessary for sanctification and NOT for justification; I still do not understand how a totally and perpetually depraved mind, body, and soul can perform good works. Saint James does not say sanctified by works, no, he clearly states, “JUSTIFIED BY WORKS”.

Benefit for our neighbors?!

“And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” Luke 16:15 NKJV

"For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. " Galatians 1:10 KJV

“But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.” Galatians 6:4 KJV

“Therefore let no man glory in men.” 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." Matthew 6:1 ESV

“Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.” 2 Corinthians 10:12 ESV

To add to that:

Luke 10:
25 Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus.[a] “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”

 

[AugustTherese]

To add to that:

Luke 10:
25 Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus.[a] “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”

“Do this, and you will live.”

Parallel that with:

“So now, Israel, give heed to the statutes and ordinances that I am teaching you to observe, so that you may live.” Deuteronomy 4:1

 

[Cathoholic]

JonNC. You quoted . . .

Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11

]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14639568&postcount=209

But this is irrelevant. I’ve already quoted Trent at least twice that asserts this.

Here it is again . . .

COUNCIL OF TRENT . . . . none of those things which precede justification - **whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification. **For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

God’s unmerited grace is WHY we are “accepted by God” to be sure.

Your “faith” didn’t “MERIT” regeneration or baptism or “renew(ing) our hearts” either.

The question is, once you have the Holy Spirit, once you are children of God, things change.

Then, UNITED to Christ you not only CAN merit, but you MUST merit (yes there are exceptions allowing for state in life).

You are saying of the above quote that you yourself used, that these “good works” are NOT justifying.

And I am saying the Bible gives us no support for that.
I am also saying the Bible gives us a lot of support against this notion of yours.

So the question remains . . . .

**
Why come up with a slogan that characterizes the “hinge” of the Reformation as “faith alone” when . . . .

When St. Paul never** says you are justified by faith alone.
St. Paul specifically talks about the integration of works with salvation (I showed just SOME of those verses - there are more) . . .
And James explicitly says you are NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE?
[/quote]

 

[AugustTherese]

What does Our Blessed Lord have to say about Justification?

“For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:37 NKJV

 

[JonNC]

=AugustTherese;14641362]Both Ephesians 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5-7 are verses that ascribe our justification to Holy Baptism, i.e. initial justification.

“[H]e saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit [Holy Baptism], whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT BEING JUSTIFIED by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:5-7 ESV

Hence, the JDDJ professes: “We confess together that in baptism the Holy Spirit unites one with Christ, justifies, and truly renews the person. But the justified must all through life constantly look to God’s unconditional justifying grace.”

I don’t disagree about the scripture references, and the clear message they send

Did you notice the word, “But” in he second sentence? That “But” is there to profess that justification does not end in Holy Baptism, but continues “all through life” allowing God to justify us through His gift of His working in, through, and with us. This is precisely why Saint James exclaims, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works…You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” James 2:21,24 ESV

And I agree that the" justified must all through life constantly look to God’s unconditional justifying grace." I think that is the point. We look, not to our own works, even though they be good works, but to His justifying grace. It is by grace we are justified, through faith, and not of ourselves.
If we can agree that good works are the works of grace through us, and not of our own merit, we end up at the same place.
At my confirmation many years ago, these words were spoken: The Father in heaven, for Jesus’ sake, renew and increase in thee the gift of the Holy Ghost, to thy strengthening in faith, to thy growth in grace, to thy patience in suffering, and to the blessed hope of everlasting life. Of importance here is growth in grace. If you want to call that increase in justification while a Lutheran sees that as sanctification, my personal reaction now is I’m not sure what difference it makes. It is growth in grace. It is His grace that makes it possible for us to by justified by faith, to do the good works He places for us to do.

Necessity for what? He believed good works only to be necessary for sanctification and NOT for justification; I still do not understand how a totally and perpetually depraved mind, body, and soul can perform good works. Saint James does not say sanctified by works, no, he clearly states, “JUSTIFIED BY WORKS”.

Are you of the opinion that sanctification can occur without justification? There, in his think, is clear about this, too. ** “There is no justification without sanctification, no forgiveness without renewal of life, no real faith from which the fruits of new obedience do not grow.”**

Benefit for our neighbors?!

“And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” Luke 16:15 NKJV

"For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. " Galatians 1:10 KJV

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." Matthew 6:1 ESV

Where did I say to impress our fellowman. I said to benefit our fellowman.
The entire necessity of good works, our Lord sums up in Matthew 25:
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,f you did it to me.’
continued

 

[JonNC]

**41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” **

And again in Matthew 22:
** “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” **

Love your neighbor. Show charity to him, not because you get to claim it as merit for yourself before him or God, or that these works save you, but because, by His call and command, we are bound (required) to do so, and the least of His children benefit from it.
If you won’t or can’t, you reject that grace He places there for you in your baptism, in your confirmation, in Absolution and the Eucharist.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=Cathoholic;14643064]

COUNCIL OF TRENT . . . . none of those things which precede justification - **whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification. **For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

God’s unmerited grace is WHY we are “accepted by God” to be sure.
Your “faith” didn’t “MERIT” regeneration or baptism or “renew(ing) our hearts” either.

.

No argument.

The question is, once you have the Holy Spirit, once you are children of God, things change.

Then, UNITED to Christ you not only CAN merit, but you MUST merit (yes there are exceptions allowing for state in life).

You are saying of the above quote that you yourself used, that these “good works” are NOT justifying.

Yes, to the first two sentences, and Amen.
If justification is a gift of grace, then I can’t merit it. It is a gift. I am incapable of merit before God. Instead, by the prompting of the Holy Spirit, I try my best to do as He calls and commands us to do. If you want to call that justifying, it seems to me you have to be willing to say my good works are justifying because they are His good works in and through me, and therefore only by grace.

Why come up with a slogan that characterizes the “hinge” of the Reformation as “faith alone” when . . .

Well, first, its just a slogan. Listen to the extensive explanatioin of what the reformer meant, and look at the context that they said it in.

When St. Paul never says you are justified by faith alone.
St. Paul specifically talks about the integration of works with salvation (I showed just SOME of those verses - there are more) . . .
And James explicitly says you are NOT JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE?

And why do you believe sola fide doesn’t integrate works with salvation? How can you read Luther’s commentary on Galatians 5:6 and NOT see the integration of works in salvation?

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=James248;14641662]This wouldn’t have happened if someone had ironed out Sola Fide. If faith alone is necessary for salvation, well, does this do away with hope or charity?

Of course not. Grace alone is necessary for salvation. By grace you are justified through faith, and not by anything of yourself. That’s pretty clear. Christ also tells us to love our neighbor. Like faith not being a mere intellectual assent, neither is love. Love is embodied by charity, caring for others, as Christ commands. How can we say we love the Lord our God, and then determine to not follow His commands, especially the command that we love our neighbor?

Catholics believe that “he who is righteous will live by faith,” period. No adjectives. And we have to be faithful to God. We must believe into God. We also must not despair, and we must love Him in our neighbor. Not faith alone, but faith, hope and love.

Sola fide simply tells us how we access justification. Grace alone through faith alone brings us to justification. But the just do more than that, must do more. So, when the Apostle tells us that faith, hope and love abide, and the greatest of these is love, this is most certainly true (still the Lutheran in me ).

Jon

 

[James248]

Sola fide simply tells us how we access justification. Grace alone through faith alone brings us to justification. But the just do more than that, must do more. So, when the Apostle tells us that faith, hope and love abide, and the greatest of these is love, this is most certainly true (still the Lutheran in me ).

Jon

And how do you square this with James, who clearly says that one is “justified by works and not by faith alone” and Paul who clearly says that it is not “the hearers of the law, but rather the doers of the law will be justified?” Justification is a process, not a single event.

 

[Cathoholic]

JonNC. You said (here):

Grace alone is necessary for salvation.

But you are ignoring that “faith” and “charity” . . . . ARE . (in some cases) . . . GRACES.

For example here is the aspect of faith that is human (then I will list aspect of faith that is Divine).

Faith is human:

Faith is a human act

CCC 154a Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. . . .

Now the Divine aspect or GRACE aspect that may be part of a faith . .

**Faith is a grace **

CCC 153b . . . Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.’"25

If you want I can give supporting Bible verses too for the human aspects of faith and the Divine aspects of faith (for example if you or some other reader of this thread don’t trust the CCC).

The point is, you are reducing “faith” down to a MERE human act. And emphasizing the “grace” aspect (while you are ignoring that “faith” itself can be a grace too).

 

[Cathoholic]

JonNC. You also said (again emphasis mine):

Love your neighbor. Show charity to him, not because you get to claim it as merit for yourself before him or God, or that these works save you, but because, by His call and command, we are bound (required) to do so

JonNC. That’s partially true.

We do good works as “by His call and command” to be sure.

But there is also merit as well.

LUKE 18:24a,c –30 . 24 Jesus . . said, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?" 27 But he said, “What is impossible with men is **possible **with God.” 28 And **Peter said, “Lo, we have left our homes and followed you.” **29 And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there is no man who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive manifold more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

What Peter and the Apostles earned here JonNC was united to Christ and was of the proper motivation (it was “for the sake of the Kingdom of God”) which itself is grace too AND a human act in union too.

And notice these things are “possible WITH God”.

It was not said: These things are possible ONLY FROM God" (which ALSO would have been true in a sense too. But that is not what was said.)

---

JonNC. You said here (emphasis mine):

by grace we are justified, through faith, and not of ourselves.

I affirm that JonNC. That is all standard Traditional Protestant theology that is consistent with Catholic theology. (You and I agree on these points JonNC)

***Here is where we differ . . . . ***

But after we are initially justified, after we have the Holy Spirit . . . . we are “not of ourselves”. He has not left us orphans.

We are now “not of ourselves” . . . we are “WITH CHRIST”.

So your bringing up “not of ourselves” is entirely irrelevant. I already agree with that.

It’s the . . . When we are NOT “of ourselves” but “WITH CHRIST” that I take issue with.

JOHN 15:5 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

But as Jimmy Akin says . . “But with Jesus you CAN DO some stuff.”

And if you don’t DO “some stuff” WITH Jesus, those who are IN JESUS (notice Jesus is addressing people who ARE IN HIM here) but refuse to bear fruit, will be cast aside and burned.

(This being “cast aside and burned” is not “salvation imagery” JonNC. They MUST DO some stuff.)

---

by grace we are justified, through faith, and not of ourselves.

JonNC. Did your faith MERIT your initial justification?

A: No.

Q: Do you still need faith to be continually justified after your initial justification?

A: Yes.

Q: If you choose to throw away your faith and never repent will you be justified anyway?

A: No.

Now let’s ask the SAME questions to a hypothetical Catholic adding in works.

Q: Did your faith and/or your works MERIT your initial justification?

A: No.

Q: Do you still need faith and works to be saved after your initial justification?

A: Yes.

Q: If you choose to throw away your faith and/or your charity and never repent will you be justified anyway?

A: No.

---

What you are taking issue with here JonNC is … . . .

• The concept of justification being a moment followed by a lifelong process (you are reducing justification down to a moment ALONE).
• And you seem to be having issues with the concept of MERIT.

Before our justification we cannot merit.
Before, during, and after our justification we cannot merit ON OUR OWN.

But AFTER we are justified, AND UNITED to Christ, And REMAINING IN CHRIST not only CAN we MERIT, but we MUST MERIT (united to Christ).

For the sake of Catholics or lurkers who may be reading this thread, I will break down merit and give you some quotes that you may want to cut and save for your “justification files” and your “merit files”.

This will save you people some work.

 

[Cathoholic]

For those interested I culled together some things regarding merit.

“Merit” is . . .

CCC 2006 The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

In the sense of meriting Heaven we cannot do so on our own.

Jesus CAN merit such.

This is called “Strict Merit”.

We mere humans cannot STRICTLY merit.

CCC 2007a With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. . . . .

Jesus is our meritorious cause of justification in a strict sense.

This from Trent . . . .

COUNCIL OF TRENT . . . . The meritorious cause (of our justification) is His most beloved only begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited for us justification by His most holy passion on the wood of the cross and made satisfaction for us to God the Father. . . .

This is basically the same as we looked at earlier with Titus 3 and Ephesians 2.

This concerns the MOMENT we are justified.

And ONLY Jesus can merit that.

But in addition to “Strict Merit” there is what I will call here “Associated Merit”.

Associated Merit is sometimes sub-divided down by theologians to what are called “Condign” and “Congruent” Merit.

I won’t get that specific here as it is beyond the scope of this post (and probably beyond the scope of this thread).

Associated Merit is where we merit IN UNION with Christ.

• Strict Merit (ONLY Jesus)
• Associated Merit (Jesus and US)

So we have Strict Merit (Jesus ONLY) and Associated Merit (Jesus and us. Through Him, With Him, and IN Him).

So there is a sense we cannot merit.
And there is another sense in which we MUST Merit.

And this is REAL Merit (meriting WITH Jesus).

COUNCIL OF TRENT If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life, - if so be, however, that he depart in grace, - and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema. – Council of Trent — Canon 32

CCC 2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 **The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.**61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts."62

St. Augustine (back in about 400 A.D.) put it this way . . . .

ST. AUGUSTINE You are glorified in the assembly of Your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits You are crowning Your own gifts.

ST. AUGUSTINE It is on this ground alone that we can speak of Divine justice at all, and apply the principle: Do ut des (Latin for “I [God] give in order that you [humans] may give” ). cf. St. Augustine, Serm. clviii, c. ii, in P.L., XXXVIII, 863)

But we have ASSOCIATED MERIT too (which comes from Christ working IN US and through us but with our COOPERATION as St. Paul reminds us in 2nd Corinthians 6:1).

CCC 2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God.

CCC 2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

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The sanctification vrs. justification argument is pointless because we assert sanctification is PART of justification.

Since NO unclean thing will enter Heaven, we MUST be sanctified.

CCC 2019 Justification includes the remission of sins, sanctification, and the **renewal **of the inner man.

I’ll leave it at this for now. I only put his much up in case anyone wanted to copy and paste some of the specifics (there are more too. A lot more. But I won’t post them all here. I think we have enough for most Catholic defenders who may want to copy and paste these quotes to their files though)