Justified by Faith Alone cf. James 2:24

[Cathoholic]

LatinRight.

In post 861 you said . . .

FOURTH LINE OF REASONING – I will draw all people to myself/Universal Salvation, which is the will of God.

Then in post 862 you asked if I thought it was correct reasoning?

Do you think Cathoholic the third line of reasoning is correct or the fourth and the fifth lines of reasoning correct?

The answer is “no” it is not correct reasoning…

Why?

Because the premise of Jesus drawing all men to Himself (an act of prevenient grace) is a DIFFERENT premise than that regarding “salvation”.

FOURTH LINE OF REASONING – I will draw all people to myself/Universal Salvation, which is the will of God.

You are ASSUMING they are the same. This is wrong.

Jesus DOES draw all men to Himself. Jesus goes beyond that by redeeming all humanity too. But by free will some still reject these gifts. There is no salvation for them.

 

[LatinRight]

LatinRight (from post 861) . . . .

Because people have free will and sometimes unfortunately do not choose God.

youtube.com/watch?v=7-hTfkMrET0

**God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

You said Cathoholic:
People have free will and sometimes unfortunately do not choose God.

FIRST:**

An un-regenerated man don’t have a free will to choose God and not only sometimes do not choose God, but NEVER choose God and CAN NOT choose God. – Rom.8:7-8; 1 Cor.2:14: etc.

John 6:44 (NIV)
“ No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

The salvation of God’s children always based on God’s initiative.

SECOND:

FIRST, ALWAYS God choose the people WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

FIRST, ALWAYS God draws the people to Christ by given them all kinds of graces necessary to accomplish His degreed will.

And AFTER regeneration/initial justification (which is solely the work of God), in the state of grace God “CONTROLS” (which is God’s love of care) the will without violating it and people ALWAYS say YES to God!!!

In other words, when God COMMANDS, He CAPATICATES the hearer to respond.
No exception, God CAPATICATES the hearer to POSITIVELY respond, in this way God accomplish His decreed will.

Yet our ability to respond is also His gift.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES,PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

Before we go down to the nitty-gritty, I need to confess something:

I have a dear friend who always was and is a really practising Catholic.

Four of five month ago with a group people, mostly Catholics they started a weekly meetings to study a Catholic priest’s teachings on Universal Salvation, when I heard it, I was horrified.

I decided to study the Scripture and the Catholic teachings on salvation for the reason, to tell them how wrong they are to believe Universal Salvation.

I started an intensive study on salvation, both Scripture and Catholic teachings. – I had a strong zeal to show them how wrong they are to believe Universal Salvation.

As I get more and more knowledge on predestination, salvation, I started to feel maybe I’m wrong and they are right, then I strongly dismissed it, I still believed – there is no Universal Salvation!!!

**I continued with the study, and two or three weeks ago I realized: **

Eph.1:10; In the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

Col.1:20; and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

The way God demonstrated His Universal salvation on Nineveh regardless of His promise that destroy them all.

In the same way God will save the entire human race regardless of His promise that apart from a few people He will throw everyone to hell.

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

**I prove it for you Cathoholic as follows:

PREDESTINATION / SALVATION IN CATHOLIC THEOLOGY

There are two predestinations in Catholic theology: – ???

PREDESTINED TO FINAL SALVATION / HEAVEN – This is a positive predestination, God’s choice, (This is God’s promise that He will saves a few people).**

Every predestined at their initial justification is a receiver of God’s special grace The Gift of Final perseverance, which is an Eternal Protection of their salvation.

Without this Gift of Final Perseverance,** every predestined to final salvation/heaven, would end up in hell.** – Infallible teaching.

God predestined His chosen ones to final salvation WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

THE REASON OF THEIR PREDESTINATION AND THEIR EVERLASTING JOY IN HEAVEN

Quote: Thomas Aquinas wrote, "God wills to manifest his goodness in men: in respect to those whom he predestines, by means of his mercy, in sparing them; End quote.

PREDESTINED TO INITIAL SALVATION / PREDESTINED TO BE SAVED FOR A WHILE – This is also a positive predestination, God’s choice, (This is God’s promise, that apart from a few people He will throws everyone to hell).

As they are predestined only to be saved for a while, **at their initial justification they did not receive God’s special grace The Gift of Final perseverance, which would be an Eternal Protection of their salvation. **

Every predestined to initial salvation end up in hell.

THE REASON OF THEIR CONDEMNATION AND THEIR EVERLASTING SUFFERINGS IN THE PAINS OF HELL

Quote: Thomas Aquinas wrote God wills to manifest his justice in respect of those, **whom he reprobates, by means of his justice, in punishing them. ****

This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others.

According to Aquinas, “[Christ] is the propitiation for our sins, efficaciously for some, but sufficiently for all, because the price of his blood is sufficient for the salvation of all; but it has its effect only in the elect.” End quote.

Now James Akin speaking: (A tiptoe through TULIP)

Quote: One may say that although the sufficiency of the atonement is not limited, its efficiency is limited.

This is something everyone who believes in hell must acknowledge because, if the atonement was made efficacious for everyone, then no one would end up in hell. – Something to think about. End quote.

This is above the best and clearest explanation I ever read on the reason the majority of the human race going to the pains of hell for all eternity.

“If the atonement was made efficacious for everyone, then no one would have to go to hell.”

Johns Salza Apologist in the Mystery of Predestination teaching about the same thing.

The section on efficacious Grace endevers to show that for those whom he chosen, he sends efficacious Grace that infallibly makes man freely choose God.

The chapter on sufficient Grace speaks of God sending sufficient grace to all people that is sufficient to Grant them salvation.

But at the same time, Salza explains it really is not sufficient, and nobody can be saved this way.

So, God predestined a few people to heaven without considering their merits (of course, all future merit is God’s gifts, so no merit to consider) to show His love and mercy, and God also predestined the majority of the human race positively (randomly) to hell, to show His Justice by punishing them forever in hell, who can do nothing in the first place to save themselves.

I don’t know how anyone cannot see the incredible contradictions and the impossibility of the above teachings.

Yet I didn’t see it either until I started an intensive study of the above teachings for the reason to DEFEND it, and while I studied it I realized, I trying to defend a theological impossibility.

Continue**

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

SUMMARY

As you see Cathoholic the original teachings of the reason of hell is NOT because people don’t choose God, but because God’s “demonstration of His justice.” – And might add, apart from a few people, by positively (randomly) chosen God throwing the whole human race into hell.

Quote: Thomas Aquinas wrote, "God wills to manifest his goodness in men: in respect to those whom he predestines, by means of his mercy, in sparing them; and in respect of others, **whom he reprobates, by means of his justice, in punishing them. **

This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others.

Some misguided apologists by trying to take God off from the hook, they teach, not God responsible for people going to hell but the lost because they don’t choose God.

They don’t see or don’t want to see the contradiction, that an un-regenerated man CAN NOT choose God because he is spiritually dead, and a regenerated man CAN NOT leave God, because God “CONTROLS” (which is God’s love of care of His children) the will without violating it.

At least God “controls” the will that much, that all people get through the Pearly Gate and go home to heaven.

The way God saved everyone in Nineveh, the same way God will save the entire human race.

God is not satisfied even with the salvation of 99 % of the human race, those who wander away, God brings them back by “correctional pig food, great storm or big fish or combination of the two, etc.”

God is able to provide every wander-away of His child for their protection a “big fish” to bring them back to the flock. – This is called love, care and protection.

Now I cannot imagine how could I believed even one month ago that God throwing apart from a few people, the whole human race positively (randomly) to hell** to show His justice. **– It is randomly, because apart from we are in Christ, in the state of grace, WE CAN DO NOTHING.

I’m sorry but I couldn’t listen Fr. Michael teaching because I have 90 % hearing loss, but it couldn’t make any difference because now I know the teachings of the Scriptures and the Church on the subject.

**But I printed out the view of a God’s child on the teachings of Fr. Michael and I agree with his or her view. **

Quote: If I were falling into a pit of lava,** my dad would hold on and never let go until I am up and safe.** That is true love and a good dad. No loving being should be a bystander and watch it happen, without trying to save them. It doesn’t matter who they are or what they’ve done, a good dad will save them. End quote.

God our Father even goes further than that, because God recreates us and saves us, as we are His New Creations God protects us and through the Pearly Gate takes us home to heaven.

And we have received God’s gift of faith to believe it.

Unfortunately many Christians faith destroyed by destructive heresies and they living in constant fear in a paralyzed state and their great commission became their great omission.

**What do you think Cathoholic, **who is having the benefit that their great commission became their great omission?

Do we have to be spiritual geniuses to know, the teaching is originated from the person who is having the benefit of it???

Christ said: “You will know them by their fruits.”

God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[LatinRight]

SECOND:

FIRST, ALWAYS God chooses the people WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

FIRST, ALWAYS God draws the people to Christ by given them all kinds of graces necessary to accomplish His degreed will.

God bless every readers of the CAF.

A correction of my above post # 886.

SECOND:

ALWAYS God chooses the people FIRST, WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

ALWAYS God draws the people FIRST to Christ, by given them all kinds of graces necessary to accomplish His degreed will.

God bless every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[James248]

Continuation

SUMMARY

As you see Cathoholic the original teachings of the reason of hell is NOT because people don’t choose God, but because God’s “demonstration of His justice.” – And might add, apart from a few people, by positively (randomly) chosen God throwing the whole human race into hell.

Quote: Thomas Aquinas wrote, "God wills to manifest his goodness in men: in respect to those whom he predestines, by means of his mercy, in sparing them; and in respect of others, **whom he reprobates, by means of his justice, in punishing them. **

This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others.

Some misguided apologists by trying to take God off from the hook, they teach, not God responsible for people going to hell but the lost because they don’t choose God.

They don’t see or don’t want to see the contradiction, that an un-regenerated man CAN NOT choose God because he is spiritually dead, and a regenerated man CAN NOT leave God, because God “CONTROLS” (which is God’s love of care of His children) the will without violating it.

At least God “controls” the will that much, that all people get through the Pearly Gate and go home to heaven.

The way God saved everyone in Nineveh, the same way God will save the entire human race.

God is not satisfied even with the salvation of 99 % of the human race, those who wander away, God brings them back by “correctional pig food, great storm or big fish or combination of the two, etc.”

God is able to provide every wander-away of His child for their protection a “big fish” to bring them back to the flock. – This is called love, care and protection.

Now I cannot imagine how could I believed even one month ago that God throwing apart from a few people, the whole human race positively (randomly) to hell** to show His justice. **– It is randomly, because apart from we are in Christ, in the state of grace, WE CAN DO NOTHING.

I’m sorry but I couldn’t listen Fr. Michael teaching because I have 90 % hearing loss, but it couldn’t make any difference because now I know the teachings of the Scriptures and the Church on the subject.

**But I printed out the view of a God’s child on the teachings of Fr. Michael and I agree with his or her view. **

Quote: If I were falling into a pit of lava,** my dad would hold on and never let go until I am up and safe.** That is true love and a good dad. No loving being should be a bystander and watch it happen, without trying to save them. It doesn’t matter who they are or what they’ve done, a good dad will save them. End quote.

God our Father even goes further than that, because God recreates us and saves us, as we are His New Creations God protects us and through the Pearly Gate takes us home to heaven.

And we have received God’s gift of faith to believe it.

Unfortunately many Christians faith destroyed by destructive heresies and they living in constant fear in a paralyzed state and their great commission became their great omission.

**What do you think Cathoholic, **who is having the benefit that their great commission became their great omission?

Do we have to be spiritual geniuses to know, the teaching is originated from the person who is having the benefit of it???

Christ said: “You will know them by their fruits.”

God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

When He first came to Judea, many believed because of the signs, but He didn’t faith Himself to them. They were carnal and they still believed.

 

[James248]

**God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

You said Cathoholic:
People have free will and sometimes unfortunately do not choose God.

FIRST:**

An un-regenerated man don’t have a free will to choose God and not only sometimes do not choose God, but NEVER choose God and CAN NOT choose God. – Rom.8:7-8; 1 Cor.2:14: etc.

John 6:44 (NIV)
“ No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

The salvation of God’s children always based on God’s initiative.

SECOND:

FIRST, ALWAYS God choose the people WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

FIRST, ALWAYS God draws the people to Christ by given them all kinds of graces necessary to accomplish His degreed will.

And AFTER regeneration/initial justification (which is solely the work of God), in the state of grace God “CONTROLS” (which is God’s love of care) the will without violating it and people ALWAYS say YES to God!!!

In other words, when God COMMANDS, He CAPATICATES the hearer to respond.
No exception, God CAPATICATES the hearer to POSITIVELY respond, in this way God accomplish His decreed will.

Yet our ability to respond is also His gift.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES,PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

Before we go down to the nitty-gritty, I need to confess something:

I have a dear friend who always was and is a really practising Catholic.

Four of five month ago with a group people, mostly Catholics they started a weekly meetings to study a Catholic priest’s teachings on Universal Salvation, when I heard it, I was horrified.

I decided to study the Scripture and the Catholic teachings on salvation for the reason, to tell them how wrong they are to believe Universal Salvation.

I started an intensive study on salvation, both Scripture and Catholic teachings. – I had a strong zeal to show them how wrong they are to believe Universal Salvation.

As I get more and more knowledge on predestination, salvation, I started to feel maybe I’m wrong and they are right, then I strongly dismissed it, I still believed – there is no Universal Salvation!!!

**I continued with the study, and two or three weeks ago I realized: **

Eph.1:10; In the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

Col.1:20; and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

The way God demonstrated His Universal salvation on Nineveh regardless of His promise that destroy them all.

In the same way God will save the entire human race regardless of His promise that apart from a few people He will throw everyone to hell.

Continue

You’re saying free will is corrupted. That is Calvinism plain and simple.

 

[LatinRight]

When He first came to Judea, many believed because of the signs, but He didn’t faith Himself to them. They were carnal and they still believed.

God bless James and every readers of the CAF.

Rom.8:6-8;

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Carnally minded doesn’t believe, carnal mind is enmity against God.

God bless James and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[James248]

God bless James and every readers of the CAF.

Rom.8:6-8;

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Carnally minded doesn’t**** believe, carnal mind is enmity against God.

God bless James and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

John 2

23While He was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the signs He was doing and believed in His name. 24But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, for He knew all men. 25He did not need any testimony about man, for He knew what was in a man.

Natural faith-what the carnal people had when they saw the signs He performed
Supernatural faith-Jesus entrusting Himself to them, which He did not do in this passage from John

 

[spina1953]

The Thing is Man does have free will to either choose God or not. God is not going to force anyone to love Him want Him or be with Him. That being said God does prompt one to Him, but the choice is still up to man to decide. God draws all to Him, but not everyone will come to him. In one way only is man predestined to God is that God wills all to be with Him out of love for Him, but God will never force anyone to Him they have to come to Him of their own free will otherwise its not love. But there is not such thing as one is predestined to heaven or hell that is a choice man makes. I think a rereading of the CCC would be most helpful towards understanding free will and God.

 

[LatinRight]

LatinRight.

Then in post 862 you asked if I thought it was correct reasoning?

The answer is “no” it is not correct reasoning…

Why?

Because the premise of Jesus drawing all men to Himself (an act of prevenient grace) is a DIFFERENT premise than that regarding “salvation”.

You are ASSUMING they are the same. This is wrong.

Jesus DOES draw all men to Himself. Jesus goes beyond that by redeeming all humanity too. But by free will some still reject these gifts. There is no salvation for them.

**God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

You said Cathoholic:
Because the premise of Jesus drawing all men to Himself (an act of prevenient grace) is a DIFFERENT premise than that regarding “salvation”.

I show you Cathoholic as follows some related teachings of the Catholic Church:**

**THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):**

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

**FR. WILLIAM MOST TEACHES THE SAME ABOVE THEOLOGICAL FACTS

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination? **

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

Meaning man does NOTHING and could do NOTHING, to enter the state of justification.

**THE SPIRITUAL POSITION OF AN UN-REGENERATED MAN

Rom.8:6-8;**
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 cor.2:14;
But the natural man does not receives the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

As we see above the ability of an un-regenerated/carnal man to have initial justification 100 % depends on God and 0 % on himself. – So, who has the responsibility for their initial justification Cathoholic?

**THE PROCESS OF THE SALVATION OF AN UN-REGERATED MAN

AS YOU SEE ABOVE CATHOHOLIC:**

When God calls an un-regenerated man into His service/salvation His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

**You said Cathoholic:
Because the premise of Jesus drawing all men to Himself (an act of prevenient grace) is a DIFFERENT premise than that regarding “salvation”. **

Is this above mins, this is only a FAKE imitation of Jesus drawing the HELPLESS human race into salvation for whom He died, and redeemed?

Is He changed His Mind and doesn’t save them, but anyway give them a FAKE “drawing them,” but really don’t want to save them???

This is above seems like the same thing then, God gives everyone His “sufficient grace” for their salvation,** but no one ever can be saved with this “sufficient grace.”**

Please explain to me Cathoholic what do you mean: The premise of Jesus drawing all men to Himself (an act of prevenient grace)?

Do you mean Cathoholic (I hope not) that Christ gives every un-regenerated/carnal man prevenient grace to save them **as they are in their fallen carnal state, without they initially justified, without they are in the state of grace, without they are in Christ? **

Christ on the cross paid the price for the sins of the whole world and for the salvation of the whole world.

Do you really think Cathoholic; Christ doesn’t know, if He gives His prevenient grace, or any kind of grace to an un-regenerated/carnal man to drawing them that grace is absolutely useless???

THE ROAD OF A CARNAL / UNREGENERATED MAN TO BECOME A SPIRITUAL MAN

**COUNCIL OF TRENT **
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.

**CCC 2019 **
Justification includes the remission of sins, sanctification, and the renewal of the inner man.

THE COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 CHAPTER VII
… justification itself, which is not only a remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes a friend.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

AS WE SEE ABOVE

Until an un-regenerated man is regenerated through initial justification and he is in the state of grace and in Christ, can do NOTHING and accept NOTHING from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him.

Yes we know this, but do you Cathoholic and do we considered as follows???

God’s responsibility for the Initial Justification of the whole human race and that DEMANDS Universal Initial Justification and + with the addition of God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, which without every Initially Justified, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, would end up in hell.** – Infallible teaching.**

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

SUMMARY

God calls every un-regenerated/carnal man into His service/salvation WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

Man does NOTHING and could do NOTHING, to enter the state of justification.

John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

When God calls and draws an un-regenerated man into His service/salvation His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. – Furthermore this ABSOLUTE DECREE includes the INFALLIBLE entrance to heaven.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

The salvation of God’s children always based on God’s initiative.

According to the above theological facts; God’s love and justice DEMANDS Universal Salvation, THERE IS NO WAY OUT.

Please Cathoholic, if you find a way out from Universal Salvation please share it with me.

The doctrine of universal salvation has become very popular in the modern Roman Catholic Church.

The Second Vatican Council maintained the doctrine that all will be saved in the Apokatastasis or Final Restoration of All Things.

The following excerpt is taken from the constitution Gaudium et Spes (1:45, 2:57).

Quote: The Lord is the goal of human history, the focal point of the longings of history and of civilization, the center of the human race, the joy of every heart and the answer to all its yearnings.

He it is Whom the Father raised from the dead, lifted on high and stationed at His right hand, making Him judge of the living and the dead.

Enlivened and united in His Spirit, we journey toward the consummation of human history, one which fully accords with the counsel of God’s love:

‘To reestablish all things in Christ, both those in the heavens and those on the earth’ (Eph. 1:10)

Moreover, by the impulse of grace, he is disposed to acknowledge the Word of God, Who before He became flesh in order to save all and to sum up all in Himself was already ‘in the world’ as ‘the true light which enlightens every man’ (John 1:9-10).” End quote.

Excerpt from: Jesus Christ Salvation of All by Luis F. Ladaria SJ.

Archbishop Ladaria has been secretary, the second in command, of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith since 2008 until 02/07/2017 and from this date on Pope Francis appointed Ladaria SJ. to the position of the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Archbishop Ladaria SJ. in harmony with The Second Vatican Council, teaching Universal Salvation since many years.

Quote: Jesus includes everyone and excludes no one, and all of us have received his fullness (cfr. John 1:16).
The universality of salvation and unity of Christ’s mediation mutually affirm each other [p. 144].

Yet by dying, he gave us life, that is the life of his resurrection.

Even those who do not know him are called to this divine vocation, that is, to the perfect son-ship in and through Christ.

Christians and non-Christians reach this goal by virtue of the gift of the Spirit that associates us with the unique paschal ministry of Christ even if it is through diverse paths known only to God [p. 148-149]. End quote.

God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[Cathoholic]

LatinRight (incorrectly painting Vatican II) The Second Vatican Council maintained the doctrine that all will be saved in the Apokatastasis or Final Restoration of All Things.

COUNCIL OF TRENT CANON XV If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema.

 

[LatinRight]

LatinRight (incorrectly painting Vatican II) The Second Vatican Council maintained the doctrine that all will be saved in the Apokatastasis or Final Restoration of All Things.

COUNCIL OF TRENT CANON XV If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema.

**God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

I studied carefully the VATICAN II GAUDIUM ET SPES, some excerpts as follows:**

Yet He frees all of them so that by putting aside love of self and bringing all earthly resources into the service of human life they can devote themselves to that future when humanity itself will become an offering accepted by God. (14)

1. While helping the world and receiving many benefits from it, the Church has a single intention: that God’s kingdom may come, and that the salvation of the whole human race may come to pass.

For God’s Word, by whom all things were made, was Himself made flesh so that as perfect man He might save all men and sum up all things in Himself.

The Lord is the goal of human history, the focal point of the longings of history and of civilization, the center of the human race, the joy of every heart and the answer to all its yearnings.

Enlivened and united in His Spirit, we journey toward the consummation of human history, one which fully accords with the counsel of God’s love: “To reestablish all things in Christ, both those in the heavens and those on the earth” (Eph. 11:10). End quote.

I don’t say this is a fully developed teachings on Universal Salvation, but going fast towards the teachings of the full-blown Universal Salvation and it is a definite Green Light to the fully developed teachings of Universal Salvation.

Already more and more Catholic Priests teaching Universal Salvation and many Catholics believe Universal salvation.

But need to go into to teach Universal Salvation gradually but at the same time, we have no time to waste either.

Can you imagine Cathoholic what would happen if a Priest one week reigning hellfire on the faithful and without graduation, the next week would teach Universal Salvation?

The same above principle applies to the Councils too called graduation.
Vatican II certainly very well prepared the soil for the knowledge of the reality of Universal Salvation, and more and more Priests teaching it.

Maybe Vatican III will be Christ’s by accomplish the fulfilments of Eph.1:10 and Col.1:20.

I believe the Catholic Answers Forums too could do very good mission works too if would join to the line.

So, we can understand the reason (and we can read between the lines too), the Vatican II went only about 2/3 way to teach Universal Salvation, but fully presented the reality of Universal Salvation.

Council of Trent Canon XV need to be understand in the light of Universal Salvation.

The Catholic Answers Forums could do a very good job if would start to teach Universal Salvation.

It is time to set free those Christians who are in the fear induced paralyzed state and their Great Commission became their Great Omission.

“Jesus includes everyone and excludes no one.
Even those who do not know him are called to this divine vocation, that is, to the perfect son-ship in and through Christ.

Christians and non-Christians reach this goal by virtue of the gift of the Spirit that associates us with the unique paschal ministry of Christ even if it is through diverse paths known only to God.” – Archbishop Ladaria SJ. Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[Cathoholic]

LatinRight:

Jesus includes everyone and excludes no one.

This is irrelevant concerning the heresy of apokatostasis.

Why?

Because I am not talking about JESUS EXCLUDING anyone.

(I am talking about people choosing to EXCLUDE THEMSELVES through a rejection of God’s grace)

 

[LatinRight]

LatinRight:

This is irrelevant concerning the heresy of apokatostasis.

Why?

Because I am not talking about JESUS EXCLUDING anyone.

(I am talking about people choosing to EXCLUDE THEMSELVES through a rejection of God’s grace)

God bless Cathoholic and every readers of the CAF.

RESISTING AND COOPERATING WITH GOD by James Akin.

Of course, a Calvinist can say (as a Thomistic Catholic would say) that both cooperations in the giving and the embracing of the eternal call are themselves produced (not just enabled) by God’s grace, and this is perfectly fine.

A Calvinist and a Catholic alike can say that our cooperation is produced by God’s operation. No problem at all. End quote.

**THE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS IN HARMONY WITH THE ABOVE TEACHINGS OF JAMES AKIN

Aquinas said,** “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.

ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
“For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it.”

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
“It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL.”

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”

Similarly, the Council of Orange Canon 25 states, “In every good work, it is not we who begin … but He (God) first inspires us.” (#329.2)

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

In other words, when God commands, He capacitates the hearer to respond.

Our cooperation is produced by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

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[LatinRight]

Continuation

**THE WAY GOD MAKES SURE NO ONE REJECTS HIS GRACE OF SALVATION

First: **At Initial Justification, God PERFORMS a heart transplant, etc. (Ez.36:25-27), and then after:

Second: At the point when God gives His grace of Initial Justification/Salvation, God immediately touches and DIRECTLY MOVES THE HEART OF MAN by orienting towards to freely accept and freely choose His grace of Initial Justifiaction/Salvation, every man always responds freely and positively. – This is an infallible works of God in man’s HEART and WILL and man always positively responds and freely cooperates.

Ez.36:25-27;
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you (our cooperation is produced by God’s operation) to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

God gives two other gifts of every Initially Justified:

The gift of Everlasting Life and The Gift of Final Perseverance which gift is infallible makes sure every initially justified stays on the narrow road and do all their necessary duty during their Progressive Justification such as works, sacraments, etc. –These works cannot be contributed to salvation (salvation is God’s free gift), for this works God gives rewards in heaven.

An Initially Justified/elect never resists salvation-related graces, God’s Gift of Final Perseverance takes care of that (DE FIDE Dogma + Infallible teachings). – I’m sure Cathoholic you know this.

Initial Justification. + The Gift of Final Perseverance. = Everlasting life in heaven.

Any teaching contradicts the above statement is POSITIVE PREDESTINATION TO HELL.

As the Catholic Church teaches; positive predestination to hell is heresy, so no teachings can contradict: Initial Justification. + The Gift of Final Perseverance. = Everlasting life in heaven.

I’m sure Cathoholic you know, in some Christians circles goes around some teachings like:

Initial Justification. – The Gift of Final Perseverance. = Everlasting life in hell.

It makes no difference how we cut it, the above teachings is a **POSITIVE predestination to hell!!!
**

As the Catholic Church teaches; positive predestination to hell is heresy, so the above teaching is a heresy, not Catholic teaching.

**In fact: **
Initial Justification. – The Gift of Final Perseverance. = Everlasting life in hell, is MOCKING THE LOVE AND THE JUSTICE OF GOD.

THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE

Our cooperation with God’s graces is produced by God’s operation.

**Our cooperation/elect with salvation-related graces is produced by God’s operation 100 %. – DE FIDE Dogma, Predestination of the elect.
**

Our cooperation/elect with works-related graces also produced by God’s operation.
This operation goes only that far to keep us on the narrow road to heaven.

Sometimes we reject/resist and we receive in vain work related graces (we are not yet perfect), but this resistance does not effects our entrance to heaven in any shape or form, **only effects our rewards, position and glory in heaven. – 1 Cor.3:12-15.
**

If we would never resists/receive in vain works related graces the** judgment of our works wouldn’t be necessary because we all would get a same rewards in heaven. **

Our irrevocable gift of heaven is equal for everyone with 100 % protection.

Our road to heaven (Progressive Justification) our cooperation with the works-related graces vary which causes more or less rewards or no rewards at all and those enter to heaven without any reward.

The way of salvation of those who are not Christians known only to God.

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[LatinRight]

Continuation

GOD INITIALLY JUSTIFIES US WITHOUT OUR CONSENT AND WITHOUT OUR COOPERATION

The spiritual position, and the ability of and un-regenerated/carnal man to gain Initial Justification.

Rom.8:6-8;
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 cor.2:14;
But the natural man does not receives the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Meaning; man could do NOTHING, to enter the state of justification. – Man first need God’s heart transplant.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

Until an un-regenerated/carnal man is in the state of grace and in Christ, can do NOTHING and cannot make any supernatural decision. – Man still has a heart of stone and spiritually dead in sins.

John 6:44-45 (NIV)
44. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

John 15:16; “You did not chose Me, but I chose you …”

An un-regenerated/carnal man unable to choose God, unable to give consent to his Initial Justification and unable to cooperate with the grace of God to get it.

You said Cathoholic:
I am talking about people choosing to EXCLUDE THEMSELVES through a rejection of God’s grace.

As you see above Cathoholic, **every un-regenerated/carnal man EXCLUDES THEMSELVES through a rejection of God’s grace, no exception.
**

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[LatinRight]

Continuation

**THE KEY TO UNDERSTAND THE WAY GOD SAVES THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE

Ez.36:25-27;**
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; **I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. **

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you (our cooperation is produced by God’s operation) to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

As we see above:
Man’s cooperation with the grace of God is produced by God’s operation, no one can be saved, and to keep being saved any different way!!!

CHRIST AFFIRMS THE ABOVE STATEMENT

Matthew 19:25-26;
25. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

1. Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

**RIGHTEOUSNESS AND MERIT by James Akin

Quote:** Protestants who say, … Catholics believe we must do good works in order to become justified — a position which was explicitly condemned at Trent, which taught “nothing that precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification” (Decree on Justification 8).

Justification is the cause, not the consequence, of good works.

The Church teaches that we are made totally righteous — **we receive 100% pure righteousness — in justification. **

You don’t have to do a diddly-do-da thing after being justified by God in baptism in order to go to heaven.

There is no magic level of works one needs to achieve in order to go to heaven.
One is saved the moment one is initially justified. End quote.

As we see above the ability of an un-regenerated/carnal man to have initial justification is 0 %.

For an un-regenerated/carnal man to have Initial Justification 100 % depends on God’s Love, Justice and saving actions.

God simply Initially Justifies an un-regenerated/carnal man without his consent or cooperation, because he is unable to give his consent or to cooperate at his Initial Justification.

When God calls and draws an un-regenerated/carnal man into His service/salvation His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. – Furthermore this ABSOLUTE DECREE includes the INFALLIBLE entrance to heaven.

As you see above Cathoholic.

Until an un-regenerated/carnal man is regenerated through initial justification and he is in the state of grace and in Christ, he can do NOTHING and he accept NOTHING from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him.

This means; God is responsible for the Initial Justification of the whole human race and this responsibility DEMANDS Universal Initial Justification and + with the addition of God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, which without every Initially Justified, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, would end up in hell.** – Infallible teaching.**

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