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ajcstr
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I would say no… he is responding to post 1329 regarding atheists
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tgGodsway
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Arent’ you the one who said that atheist who live a good life go to heaven?
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Erikaspirit16
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Yes I am. That’s a very Catholic point of view. To claim that all atheists are doomed to Hell seems to me to be a very anti-Catholic (and even anti-Christian) point of view.
No point in discussing this further. We disagree.
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ajcstr
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An issue I have always had with some non-Catholic Christians is when they presume to know who is hell bound and who is saved. Yes, the Bible gives us direction but God is the ultimate judge and he is not bound by the Bible. We can certainly use the Bible to illustrate that someone’s action or belief is contrary to Scripture, but NO ONE has the authority to tell someone they are going to Hell.
That being said, The Catholic Church rejected Palagianism (which suggested that a person could lead a good life and be saved by using their free will to choose good) so I think you need to be careful where you are treading.
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Erikaspirit16
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I am careful. In past posts I’ve referencd Pelagianism. I’m very aware of it. If you go back, you’ll see I have a consistent position (although I don’t repeat everything–it would take up pages and pages!) that two things are necessary: redemption by Jesus’s death on the cross and leading a good life (i.e., no mortal sins). Some people (not necessarily you) seem to restrict salvation to a certain group. This is simply not Catholic doctrine–Christ died for all people, Catholic, all religions, and yes, atheists. That’s a given. So could an atheist go to Heaven? Well, the door’s open.
As for your other comments, we agree. We don’t know who’s going to Heaven (except the Church certifies that saints are in Heaven). Only God knows. But I find it hard to believe that God would take an entire category of people (atheists, for example) and condemn them to Hell; they are individuals, and I’m sure each atheist has an individual story of why they are an atheist, etc. We may group them together, but that’s just for convenience.
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ajcstr
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I think faith has to be in that equation also.
Paul was specifically refuting those that thought that salvation was restricted to a certain group.
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tgGodsway
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erikaspirit16 why did you say I should be careful where I tread?
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ajcstr
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That was not directed at you tg
erikaspirit16’s post was sounding to me like works based salvation
erikaspirit16’s post was sounding to me like works based salvation
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tgGodsway
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Okay I don’t know who I’m talking to here. But I do have questions for Erikaspirit
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ajcstr
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You replied to my (ajcstr) post - this new format will take some getting used to.
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tgGodsway
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Erikaspirit 16,. You said that salvation comes through the redemption of Christ plus living a good moral life. Then you said atheist can be saved this way. Is that right? If so, do you mean that an atheist doesn’t necessarily have to believe in Christ redemption in order to enjoy it?
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tgGodsway
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Yeah I didn’t fully learn the last one
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AugustTherese
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To declare that someone is “dead wrong” without showing where they are “dead wrong” suggests that you are solely disagreeing simply to disagree.
Also, to state that “[you] cannot respond now” and then go on elsewhere to respond to other posts, also suggests that you are avoiding the clear Scriptural evidence that we are judged by our conduct and nothing else; that is a reality that you are going to have to accept sooner or later.
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tgGodsway
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Wow augustTherese,. You sound bothered. Sorry. I don’t want to respond now because I’m on my phone. When I can get to my computer where I can type with all my fingers then we can go at it. I still think you are dead wrong. But I say it in a friendly way
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AugustTherese
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Not at all. If I lacked the temperament to let comments on a blog site “bother” me, I suppose I should not be here.Wow augustTherese,. You sound bothered. Sorry. I don’t want to respond now because I’m on my phone. When I can get to my computer where I can type with all my fingers then we can go at it. I still think you are dead wrong. But I say it in a friendly way
I have no problem with you thinking I am “dead wrong”. For your benefit, I would hope that you would look into the matter and provide concrete evidence to support your position, rather than merely saying someone is “dead wrong”.
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Erikaspirit16
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That’s not me. It’s someone else. Maybe I had one of their quotations at the top of a post?
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Erikaspirit16
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Absolutely correct. I’m not sure why you’re questioning orthodox Catholic doctrine… maybe you’re not Catholic?
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rcwitness
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I certainly question that interpretation. I have not yet seen the Church clearly Teach that an atheist can be saved. How do you define Atheism? You would have to have quite an inclusive definition.tgGodsway:
Absolutely correct. I’m not sure why you’re questioning orthodox Catholic doctrine… maybe you’re not Catholic?
However, tgGodsway certainly phrased his question funny. All may be redeemed, while only those who believe and follow will be saved.
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ajcstr
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Correct - that is Catholic teaching.
Pope Francis Knows the Difference Between Redemption and Salvation. Do You? - Catholic Stand
Secularists and believers alike seem confused by the recent words of Pope Francis when he affirmed that all people, even atheists, are redeemed: ”The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the...
catholicstand.com
tgGodsway - what do you say about redemption? For all or for just the elect? (still playing “What’s my Line” with tgGodsway)
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rcwitness
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I do think redemption can (like justified and saved) depend on how one is using the term. Pope Francis, for example, was using it in the general sense. All mankind has been redeemed by Christ’s forgiveness, since He became our sacrifice as opposed to calling down the power of God and His angels to destroy us.rcwitness:
Correct - that is Catholic teaching.
Pope Francis Knows the Difference Between Redemption and Salvation. Do You? - Catholic Stand
tgGodsway - what do you say about redemption? For all or for just the elect? (still playing “What’s my Line” with tgGodsway)
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