Justify your pro-abortion stance

  • Thread starter Thread starter Polak
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Polak

Guest
A call to Catholics.

I don’t want a political debate. Even though I don’t quite understand it, I get there are some Catholics here who, and even though they are against abortion, they’re still going to vote for Biden because they say they are not single issue voters.

My question is are there any Catholics here who actually think legalised abortion is a good thing, and women should always have a right to choose?

If so, I would like to hear your argument, as a Catholic, for why you feel this way?
 
We already have a thread on abortion and there were no pro-choice Catholics in it.
 
Well that is encouraging.

Is it still possible to post in it? Is so, link please.
 
I think that I heard the Roman Catholic Nancy Pelosi say on a TV interview that there was a Catholic theologian who had taught that the ensoulment occurred sometime after conception.
 
Polak said:
My question is are there any Catholics here who actually think legalised abortion is a good thing, and women should always have a right to choose?
Click to expand...
Who else could have a right to choose?

The other thread, which I followed early but have not looked at in a while, thoroughly dismissed the idea that women played a role in pregnancy. The child has a right to live, and there are no other considerations.
 
Can’t say that I have met any Catholics that are pro-abortion, or for that matter many people who are pro-abortion.

There are people who are pro choice, but that isn’t the same as being pro abortion. I have met some Catholics who are pro choice in limited circumstances, but can’t say that I have met any who are full on pro choice.
 
I think that abortions should be legal. Abortion are not anything good - it is failure for the women’s health, it is failure to organize the contraception or any other family control, it is hard choice for people. But still - child and good education for it requires so, so, so much that this is completely irresponsible to bring child into world when there is no safe path for her/his basic needs, healthcare, education and all the cultural, emotional, social capital that should come from any functional family (be it traditional or non-traditional family, single-parent family or extended family with relative). Raising a child requires so much and so much failure can be that can negatively affect child’s later life.

So - the enormous responsibility towards raising a child is the main factor in the decision about keeping child.

We should be pretty clear that times are tough. Some decades earlier children could be born, get some education, find some job. Today it is completely different - so much education, culture, personality, social capital is required from young man or woman to land in good university, good first job. And the period from till the first real wage in the profession can be quite long - so much businesses require apprenticeship and volunteering without remuneration. And today it is much hard to accompany ones path into professions with side jobs. The environment is simply competitive. And if there is no this support from family, the there is failure in life. The social structure is cruel, the state support is declining.

And failure leads to Amazon warehousing jobs, or any other completely meaningless jobs, like manual waste sorting, slaughterhouses, etc. All those jobs can be automated with robots, but because there are children with failed family background and which are not willing to fight for their freedom (e.g. to claim Universal Basic Income and free access to education and skills building) - only because of these immense failure there are so much human exploitation, so much missed opportunities to use robots and so much suffering.

Child is immense treasure and responsibility.

And only when the world will become less cruel, less competitive, more accessible, only then we can claim some responsibility from those who were not ready for child.
 
Last edited:
Dovekin said:
Who else could have a right to choose?
Click to expand...
God gave life, it is God who chooses when death should occur. Not us.
Dovekin said:
thoroughly dismissed the idea that women played a role in pregnancy.
Click to expand...
They do play a role in pregnancy
Dovekin said:
The child has a right to live, and there are no other considerations.
Click to expand...
Exactly true. What is the other consideration. The child doesn’t have a right to live. Why does he or she NOT have a right to live.
 
Anyone who is “pro-choice” is pro child slaughter. They have no problems with a child being dismembered limb by limb, their skull being crushed, and their brain sucked. Let’s call it what it is, child slaughter. Anyone who thinks it is okay in society is okay with child murder. It is like saying, “I don’t think killing Jews is okay, but if someone else does that is their choice.” We know how well that went.
 
WA_Catholic said:
It is like saying, “I don’t think killing Jews is okay, but if someone else does that is their choice.”
Click to expand...
Agree. I have a similar analogy of someone seeing another person being beat up and then says, I don’t believe someone should be beating up on another person but it’s their choice, oh well.
 
How much is a life worth arvo? What is the price you would put on your family or children. You are okay with a child being torn apart limb from limb because of money and lack of resources? Are you serious? Do you think poor people are worthless? The poorest people today are much more well of than people 100 years ago. Saying material goods is worth more than human life is quite sickening.
 
WA_Catholic said:
How much is a life worth arvo? What is the price you would put on your family or children. You are okay with a child being torn apart limb from limb because of money and lack of resources? Are you serious? Do you think poor people are worthless? The poorest people today are much more well of than people 100 years ago. Saying material goods is worth more than human life is quite sickening.
Click to expand...
I am not speaking about money. I am speaking about this sense when I (we, you, he, she) is coming home from 8-hours day and then are trying to scrap some time for studies, for working on project that really matters, that can bring joy and wealth. Today are so many meaningless jobs that can be automated. I don’t believe that people are happy working in those jobs. I don’t believe that people are sure about their future in those jobs. I don’t believe that reward from such jobs is sufficient for family. I don’t believe that people are not yearning for more meaning in their lives beyond meaningless hours in work and with family as the substitute for the really meaning.

Job in philosophy, aesthetics, art reviews, theology, science generally etc. all those jobs are with very little remuneration, yet - they are meaningful, they are putting the stones on which the better life is being built. Of course, ethical businesses, that creates real value (and there are indeed such and with the utmost rewards) can be and are fantastic jobs as well. Everyone deserves to have such job. Yet - life may be cruel.

Why, why we should give life to children and then see how he, she is suffering in his/her life? That his/her life has not meaning, just going from hour to hour towards death, life passing by?

I am tempted to make comparison… But I will not do it.

But how can anyone give life to children knowing that he, she will be lacking opportunities?

Salvation is good, but human beings have dignity, have calling to meaningful lives.
 
Last edited:
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
40.png
arvo:
Salvation is good, but human beings have dignity, have calling to meaningful lives.
Click to expand...
Salvation and a chance to live is more important than anything. Period.
Click to expand...
What can I reply?

 
Being able to have a career you want is more important than another human being? You think temporarily suffering is worse than killing human beings? You cannot be serious.
 
arvo said:
I think that abortions should be legal.
Click to expand...
I hate to speak for @Polak but it sounds like s/he is curious why Catholics, who know full well the Church’s position on this human rights issue, would defy the teachings of our faith and still endorse abortion rights. Are you by chance Catholic?
Polak said:
If so, I would like to hear your argument, as a Catholic, for why you feel this way?
Click to expand...
What I imagine you will/would hear are the same abortion rights arguments you’ve been hearing for many, many years. It’s just one of those times when, theologically speaking, people think they know more than the Pope.

One stretch of an argument I’ve heard is from Catholics for a Free Choice, who claim that the Magisterium’s teaching on conscience exempt us from any obligation to be pro-life. As you’re aware, this is false. As a pressing human rights issue, abortion is not a prudential matter.
 
arvo said:
Amazon warehousing jobs, or any other completely meaningless jobs, like manual waste sorting, slaughterhouses, etc
Click to expand...
arvo said:
Today are so many meaningless jobs that can be automated. I don’t believe that people are happy working in those jobs.
Click to expand...
arvo said:
Job in philosophy, aesthetics, art reviews, theology, science generally etc. all those jobs are with very little remuneration, yet - they are meaningful, they are putting the stones on which the better life is being built.
Click to expand...
You sound extremely elitist and out of touch with the above comments. In order to function, societies need people who pick up garbage, slaughter and butcher livestock, clean, prepare meals, ect. Those jobs can be very fulfilling as they are all legal ways to earn money to support one’s family. Automation can take over some aspects of these jobs but we are far from having a Rosie the robot who can do everything a human can and make independent decisions. I’d hate to live in a society where everyone is a philosopher or an art critic, no one would create anything of true value and would likely starve for lack of real world skills. It’s very disturbing to me that because someone may find fulfillment in a job you think is meaningless that you argue they should be killed rather than born. I hope someone with your viewpoint is never in a position of power to actually make decisions like that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top