Justify your pro-abortion stance

[lwest]

Does it happen after birth? Because Pelosi is ok with abortions up until birth and didn’t she vote against the Born Alive Act several times?

 

[Nepperhan]

A call to Catholics.

I don’t want a political debate. Even though I don’t quite understand it, I get there are some Catholics here who, and even though they are against abortion, they’re still going to vote for Biden because they say they are not single issue voters.

My question is are there any Catholics here who actually think legalised abortion is a good thing, and women should always have a right to choose?

If so, I would like to hear your argument, as a Catholic, for why you feel this way?

1. You should not refer to people as ‘pro-abortion’; an inaccurate slur.
2. My belief is that it is unavoidable that abortion is legal and a right under our Constitution. I do not think that abortion is in any way a good thing – it is the price of living in a pluralistic democracy.

 

[AlNg]

abortion is legal and a right under our Constitution.

Abortion may be legal in the USA, but I don’t think that anyone has a “right” to murder an innocent person, regardless of what Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden think.

 

[Dovekin]

Dovekin:

thoroughly dismissed the idea that women played a role in pregnancy.

They do play a role in pregnancy

Then where is their role in your analogies:

. I have a similar analogy of someone seeing another person being beat up and then says, I don’t believe someone should be beating up on another person but it’s their choice, oh well.

All these analogies largely eliminate the role of the mother, and it is why they fail to convince anyone. The role of the woman in pregnancy is simply dismissed, and we are supposed to treat her as if she were a stranger beating someone up on a whim.

That is the level of the pro-life position, and it is ineffective at best, offensive at its worst.

Dovekin:

The child has a right to live, and there are no other considerations.

Exactly true. What is the other consideration.

So you agree with me, that this is the attitude on these threads about abortion? No other opinion needs to be heard, it is all settled and any dissenting voice is clearly erroneous, disloyal, unfaithful, or some other dismissal of others.

And of course, it is God who chooses when each of us dies, whether it is as a child in the womb or as a centenarian . Blessed be the name of the Lord.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

All these analogies largely eliminate the role of the mother, and it is why they fail to convince anyone. The role of the woman in pregnancy is simply dismissed, and we are supposed to treat her as if she were a stranger beating someone up on a whim.

So aborting a baby isn’t a sin? It’s not against the commandment Thou shalt not kill?

 

[Dovekin]

So aborting a baby isn’t a sin? It’s not against the commandment Thou shalt not kill?

Where did you get that from?

I trying to get someone to recognize that you cannot take the pregnant woman out of the equation, as you do here. It is not just A kills B, but pregnant A kills her child B. Anytime you leave the mother out, you have lost your credibility.

 

[farronwolf]

So is God pro abortion or pro choice?

He allows man to have free will, letting us make our own choices and living with the consequences.

He certainly doesn’t want any of us to sin, but allows everyone to do so if they choose.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

He certainly doesn’t want any of us to sin, but allows everyone to do so if they choose.

Should all sins be legal?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Anytime you leave the mother out, you have lost your credibility.

The alternative is less credible, not more.

 

[farronwolf]

Should all sins be legal?

Depends on who you ask?

Some people think that all sins should be illegal. I am certain we would have prisons full and no one left in society.

Some people think that the gov, should not legislate morality. That won’t work either as it would be pretty chaotic.

Our country happens to be in between those two positions, as most countries are. Our laws are based on the will of the people, and have, and will continue to change as people’s will changes. Just the way it is.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

If I believe something is murder, why would I not vote to make it illegal?

 

[WA_Catholic]

So is God pro abortion or pro choice?

Neither

He allows man to have free will, letting us make our own choices and living with the consequences.

Yes, and those consequences are eternal damnation if we do not seek forgiveness.

He certainly doesn’t want any of us to sin, but allows everyone to do so if they choose.

And the pro-life position doesn’t posit that people will not choose to sin or even stop killing pre-born children. We just want justice for when people choose to murder the unborn, which currently doesn’t exist. The entire pro-life argument is that taking the life of the unborn is a crime and should be punished. Exactly the way God has set up our actions.

 

[Benadam]

If it’s alive it has a soul. If it’s human so is the soul. Ensoulment doesn’t matter anyway. What matters is the moment it became an individual living being.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

are supposed to treat her as if she were a stranger beating someone up on a whim.

In all charity, if she is aborting her child she is doing him harm.

No other opinion needs to be heard, it is all settled and any dissenting voice is

What other opinion should a Catholic have in regards to the life of another human being?

it is God who chooses when each of us dies

Yes

 

[Dovekin]

We just want justice for when people choose to murder the unborn, which currently doesn’t exist. The entire pro-life argument is that taking the life of the unborn is a crime and should be punished. Exactly the way God has set up our actions.

What would that justice look like? Most pro-life people that I have encountered do not take this position. They want to stop abortions, not punish those who have aborted. That is why I do not understand the push for the criminalization of abortion. What justice do you want? Punishment? Rehabilitation? Vengence?

Ensoulment doesn’t matter anyway. What matters is the moment it became an individual living being.

Ensoulment IS the moment when “it” becomes an individual human being.

In all charity, if she is aborting her child she is doing him harm.

Absolutely. That does not mean discourse that ignores the mother is appropriate. Analogies like other beatings and killings fail. They are not the same as abortion, because mother and child are inseparably involved. If people are not allowed to even consider the mother, as happened in the other thread and as you seem to be proposing, the OP will never be answered.

 

[Jeanne_S]

That call , to dignity and a meaningful life begins with the right to be born.

 

[farronwolf]

The entire pro-life argument is that taking the life of the unborn is a crime and should be punished.

So you are suggesting that women who seek abortion are punished for murder? Yet you don’t believe the murders will actually stop. Hmmm
Yes, God has eternal damnation as punishment for some, yet he also has eternal forgiveness as well.

If I believe something is murder, why would I not vote to make it illegal?

If you are a legislator, you can vote to pass a law or not pass a law. Voters don’t vote on laws.

This thread is being derailed into another abortion debate which the forum has plenty of. The OP’s question was for people to justify their pro-abortion position.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So,(just clarifying) are you saying the mother should have a choice on abortion or are you saying she needs cared for also? Because if you are saying she needs cared for also, I completely agree. That is where we need more pro life women’s care centers and help in more ways.

I don’t agree with the pro choice thought but yes there are many ways we should be helping her.

Also, many times the mother feels trapped and doesn’t want the abortion but someone is behind her and very very strongly encouraging her to it or paying for it, even parents and grandparents.

Lastly my analogy was meant to demonstrate the “I’m against abortion but won’t say anything” thinking.

 

[jochoa]

Since you recognize abortion is bad (“not good”) and your value for the option to rid of a child is based on financial strain, yet you share a video in which 100% of the women in it are consumed in entertainment, this brings up the idea that, in the least, you should support criminalizing abortion based on the quantity of entertainment and higher education one receives.

Furthermore, your support for abortion based on lack of opportunity to live for either the mother or the child fails because every mother had the opportunity/time to enjoy sexual intimacy, including all the time in enjoying the development of the relationship between her and the father of the child.

 

[Elf01]

What would that justice look like? Most pro-life people that I have encountered do not take this position. They want to stop abortions, not punish those who have aborted. That is why I do not understand the push for the criminalization of abortion. What justice do you want? Punishment? Rehabilitation? Vengence?

When it comes to legality she gets no more say in killing her child before birth than she does in killing the child after birth.

What we can do is remove as much of the burden of child rearing as possible and promote adoption if a woman still fors not feel ready to raise a child.