JW at the door: Where the Hispanics at?

[PRmerger]

All you need is follow law/doctrine of God-OT. No need to believe in Divinity of Jesus which does’nt exist.

Only Father God of me, you, all and Jesus ] is Divine. Which is in Trinity, placed always in the first person. The other two persons are His creatures…not Divine. By the way Father is not a person.

Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man do the will of him; he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh the glory of him that sent him, he is true, and there is no injustice in him. [19] Did Moses not give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? [20] Why seek you to kill me? The multitude answered, and said: Thou hast a devil; who seeketh to kill thee?

What? Why are you quoting Scripture if it’s not inspired? That’s like me quoting from Aesop’s fables to prove that a fox can talk.

 

[rbrownr]

What? Why are you quoting Scripture if it’s not inspired? That’s like me quoting from Aesop’s fables to prove that a fox can talk.

You should’nt be confused. The TEXT of Bible per se is not inspired. Furthermore, it has interpolations.

Here is one example:

**John1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, 12 who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

12 [18] The only Son, God: while the vast majority of later textual witnesses have another reading, “the Son, the only one” or “the only Son,” the translation above follows the best and earliest manuscripts, monogenes theos, but takes the first term to mean not just “Only One” but to include a filial relationship with the Father, as at Luke 9:38 (“only child”) or Hebrews 11:17 (“only son”) and as translated at John 1:14. The Logos is thus “only Son” and God but not Father/God.

Same verse in another Bible:

[18] No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[pablope]

Thanks PRMerger: I think trying to get my head around all the permutations of Christianity is a bit like shoveling smoke with a pitchfork. I’ll just wear myself out

Sufjon,

I commisserate with the confusion all the discussions are causing you. My advice is to stick to the basics first. Get a basic understanding first. Like starting in school, you start in kinder or 1st grade, not 3rd or 5th grade.

Which is the oldest of these religions? Find out what their beliefs are, theology and the like. Since it is the oldest one, it would have the most basic beliefs and how these were first believed. And from these basic beliefs came the permutations and their own set of beliefs and their futher permutations.

After that, find out if this oldest of religions still hold to the same beliefs and theology. Which has been most consistent in these since their founding.

How are you doing with your Bible history?

pablope

 

[PRmerger]

You should’nt be confused. The TEXT of Bible per se is not inspired. Furthermore, it has interpolations.

Ok. The TEXT is not inspired.

So when you quote and cite a TEXT, from Scripture it’s not inspired. And it’s like quoting from Marvel comics, Aesop’s fables, wikipedia, all of which are not inspired also.

Why should we take any biblical citation from you with an seriousness?

 

[rbrownr]

Ok. The TEXT is not inspired.

So when you quote and cite a TEXT, from Scripture it’s not inspired. And it’s like quoting from Marvel comics, Aesop’s fables, wikipedia, all of which are not inspired also.

Exactly. Yet you do find ‘some’ truth in them such as Wikipedia, Marvel comics, Aesop’s fables…etc.

Bible is a book of history written by [moslty] unknown people which contains contradictions. And you should not attribute these contradictions to God by saying '“Bible is inspired by God”.
Because God is not a deceiver to decive you with these contradictions and interpolations done by people.

Why should we take any biblical citation from you with an seriousness?

Good question. Here is another verse from Bibles to ponder:

[20] In that day the Lord shall shave with a razor that is hired by them that are beyond the river, by the king of the Assyrians, the head and the hairs of the feet, and the whole beard.
[Douay-Rheims Bible]

Same verse in an another Holy Bible:
7: 20 9 On that day the LORD shall shave with the razor hired from across the River (with the king of Assyria) the head, and the hair between the legs. It shall also shave off the beard. 9 [20] God will use the Assyrians from across the River (the Euphrates) as his instrument (razor) to inflict disgrace and suffering upon his people.]

You ask yourself : Why “the hair between the legs” was not inspired to the author of Douay-Rheims Bible?

 

[pablope]

You should’nt be confused. The TEXT of Bible per se is not inspired. Furthermore, it has interpolations.

Here is one example:

**John1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, 12 who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

12**[18] No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom ****of the Father, he hath declared him.

rBrownR…what do you mean by “Text of Bible…is not inspired?” If the text is not inspired, than what is? What or which part of the Bible do you consider inspired?

Did I read in one of your posts…that JWs only consider the OT inspired and not the NT? Then what is your understanding of the Bible? How did it come to be the Bible.

 

[Sufjon]

Sufjon,

I commisserate with the confusion all the discussions are causing you. My advice is to stick to the basics first. Get a basic understanding first. Like starting in school, you start in kinder or 1st grade, not 3rd or 5th grade.

Which is the oldest of these religions? Find out what their beliefs are, theology and the like. Since it is the oldest one, it would have the most basic beliefs and how these were first believed. And from these basic beliefs came the permutations and their own set of beliefs and their futher permutations.

After that, find out if this oldest of religions still hold to the same beliefs and theology. Which has been most consistent in these since their founding.

How are you doing with your Bible history?

pablope

Hi pablope: It’s good to hear from you again. My Bible history is coming along fine, and I’m still learning a lot here. I’m not sure how long it’ll take to work through the confusion, but I know that it’ll happen.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

Exactly. Yet you do find ‘some’ truth in them such as Wikipedia, Marvel comics, Aesop’s fables…etc.

Ok. Then I will understand all of your Scripture citations in light of that. Marvel. Aesop. Wiki. Isaiah. Revelation.

Bible is a book of history

Absolutely not.

Good question. Here is another verse from Bibles to ponder:

[20] In that day the Lord shall shave with a razor that is hired by them that are beyond the river, by the king of the Assyrians, the head and the hairs of the feet, and the whole beard.
[Douay-Rheims Bible]

I respond with this:

A Fox once saw a Crow fly off with a piece of cheese in its beak and settle on a branch of a tree. “That’s for me, as I am a Fox,” said Master Reynard, and he walked up to the foot of the tree.

Thus, we now know that foxes can speak, eh? :whacky:

 

[catsrus]

I’ve read through this entire thread and felt the old feeling of frustration. Having once associated with jws, I know they are the blindest of the blind and cannot and will not see. Only God Himself can pierce their hard hearts, blind eyes, closed ears and closed minds.
They refuse to entertain ANY thought or idea which does not come from the watchtower and refuse to read anything at all that would give them pause to consider a theory, explaination or arguement that is not watchtower approved.
All one can hope for with these people is to drop a seed that MAY, eventually, cause a jw to investigate outside the watchtower. But if they do, they will tell no one and only do it surreptitiously because to be found “questioning” the wt, is to be disciplined by the congregation “elders” and shunned and disfellowshipped.
Jwism is the one of the worst cults on earth and extremely difficult to escape.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you for your patience and your help jmcrae. It all sounds a bit legalistic to me, but much of what I am running into in my forays into the world of Christianity is that way. Well, that is why I am here - to learn.

The “legalism” is only putting into words what nature already teaches us - most of the “marriages” I described above could not produce healthy children, after all - and those not done with proper legal form would produce children who were physically healthy, but who would doubt all their lives whether or not they were the legitimate heirs of their father, and in the event of a dispute, would have no legal recourse to be able to claim their inheritance at the time of his death. These things do matter.

 

[jw2lds2catholic]

All you need is follow law/doctrine of God-OT. No need to believe in Divinity of Jesus which does’nt exist.

Only Father God of me, you, all and Jesus ] is Divine. Which is in Trinity, placed always in the first person. The other two persons are His creatures…not Divine. By the way Father is not a person.

Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man do the will of him; he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh the glory of him that sent him, he is true, and there is no injustice in him. [19] Did Moses not give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? [20] Why seek you to kill me? The multitude answered, and said: Thou hast a devil; who seeketh to kill thee?

Are you for real? You might claim to be a Jehovah Witness, but you sure don’t sound like one. For one, JWs do not believe in a Trinity or godhead or anything like it. Jehovah is God alone and is referred to as Father. Jesus, is Jehovah’s first creation called Son and redeemed the sin of Adam. lastly is the Holy Spirit, and is a what, not a who, which eminates from the Father to do His will. This is JW doctrine, not the gobbledegook stated above.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
According to JW’s truth,which really means nothing to God and His TRUTH.

If Jesus is NOT God,then explain to me how a mere creature (Jesus) managed to redeem humanity and eventually save humanity? I thought only God can save?

Creatures cannot save nor be worshiped…it is against God.

All you need is follow law/doctrine of God-OT. No need to believe in Divinity of Jesus which does’nt exist.

Only Father God of me, you, all and Jesus ] is Divine. Which is in Trinity, placed always in the first person. The other two persons are His creatures…not Divine. By the way Father is not a person.

Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man do the will of him; he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh the glory of him that sent him, he is true, and there is no injustice in him. [19] Did Moses not give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? [20] Why seek you to kill me? The multitude answered, and said: Thou hast a devil; who seeketh to kill thee?

You still failed to answer my question:

If Jesus is NOT God,then explain to me how a mere creature (Jesus) managed to redeem humanity and eventually save humanity? I thought only God can save?

Creatures cannot save nor be worshiped…it is against God

Explain your JW’s lack of continuity?

WRONG! Precisely why JW’s theology is wacked and like Swiss Cheese: Full of holes. How long has the JW;s organization been around? Second of all, JW’s theology is so on the surface it overshoots so much,which is why JW’s DENY Jesus’ 100% Divinity.

Spare me the taken out-of-context verses used by the JW’s to protray Jesus as being inferior. New Testament also has verses which clearly show Christ and the Father to be equals. For example, there is John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.” Or, “He who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9). Or, “All that the Father has is mine” (John 16:15). Or, “The Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God” (John 5:18). Or, “[Jesus], though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be g.asped” (Phil. 2:6). These seem to contradict the other verses

 

[Fidei]

I doubt rbrownr is a JW. No JW would ever discredit the bible. I have a close friend who is a sincere JW who believes in the Bible in its supremacy.

These seem to contradict the other verses

the bible never contradicts itself

 

[catsrus]

rbrownr seems to be typical of all jws/jws posers.
When asked for an in depth explaination of their skewed beliefs they walk off your porch…er…thread.

 

[Dokimas]

IMO, the real question is “What don’t we all knock on the doors of unbelievers so they can be given the Truth?”

The JW’s are doing a better job of getting their teaching out to the needy. Too bad it really isn’t the Gospel of Jesus, IMO.

 

[PRmerger]

The JW’s are doing a better job of getting their teaching out to the needy.

Yes. They should be commended for taking the command to go and preach the gospel to all nations seriously.

Too bad it really isn’t the Gospel of Jesus, IMO.

Indeed.

On a similar note, I think that evangelical Christians do a much better job welcoming folks to their churches than Catholics do.

Too bad that they have a truncated version of the Gospel. :sad_yes:

 

[Dokimas]

Yes. They should be commended for taking the command to go and preach the gospel to all nations seriously.

Indeed.

On a similar note, I think that evangelical Christians do a much better job welcoming folks to their churches than Catholics do.

Too bad that they have a truncated version of the Gospel. :sad_yes:

Too bad you have to condescend to evangelical Christians. Seems to be a violation of the Spirit of Romans 14.

 

[Nicea325]

I doubt rbrownr is a JW. No JW would ever discredit the bible. I have a close friend who is a sincere JW who believes in the Bible in its supremacy.

the bible never contradicts itself

I know it does not contradict itselfThat is not what I am trying to say. The point is that the verses JW’s use (out-of-context) as a smoking gun against Christ divinity seems to contradict the verses which prove His divinity.

 

[Memento_Mori]

This happened many years ago. My mom and dad were sitting on the porch the day after my grandmom’s funeral. Two JW’s approached and launched into their script. My mom asked them to please leave, that she and my dad were Catholic, and that they had just buried her mom the day before. One of the JW’s asked if my grandmother was Catholic. Mom told him yes. He said, Well then your mother is in hell". My dad had to physically restrain my mom so she wouldn’t hit the guy. Their dog, a big, gray muzzled old black Labrador Retriever, took matters into her own hands (er, paws). Without so much as a yip, she launched herself off the porch (a small miracle considering her hip problems) and landed on the guy, sliding her big, muddy paws down the front of his suit. They must have a long memory, because my mom lived there another twenty years, and no JW’s every showed up at the door again.

When i was a little boy i used to have a maid who used to take care of me while my father was away on business trips , she was a JW and ive been a roman catholic practitioner since childhood , she was an native indian , and in my country native indians are the most uneducated people you cuould ever find ,they can barely know how to write and read …i remember once i had a crucifix in my room and she told me that was evil and thats the reason my heart was full of evil deeds … i was in shock of course i was …i was 10 …i knew she wasnt a bad person but unfortunately she was a very ignorant woman …JW and other SECTS or cults always rely in the most ignorant part of the population to fill their ranks …

I think JW has a dogma very similar of the arianism of old times …i understand your position

greetings.

 

[Memento_Mori]

IMO, the real question is “What don’t we all knock on the doors of unbelievers so they can be given the Truth?”

The JW’s are doing a better job of getting their teaching out to the needy. Too bad it really isn’t the Gospel of Jesus, IMO.

Because we dont want to violate the principles of charity and one of those are " we have to respect our neighbor " …we no longer live in the Middle ages in which only monks and priests knew about the Bible and the same was written in latin or greek …Martin Luther 500 years ago launched the Protestan Reformation translating the Bible into german …right now the Bible is written in every language possible …so anayone whishes to know the thruth …they dont need a cult to spread the word …simple as that

thanks