JW Insight on the Scriptures

[Jomann]

I was a JW and i can say to you that ANYTHING printed by Watchtower (now rebranding to JW.org) have the same validity of the Bible.

A JW must accept what is printed by the Governing Body (7 guys in New York).

 

[ShanPO]

I was a JW and i can say to you that ANYTHING printed by Watchtower (now rebranding to JW.org) have the same validity of the Bible.

A JW must accept what is printed by the Governing Body (7 guys in New York).

What would your reaction have been to someone showing you a misquote? Like if the Governing Body wrote Person X said Thing Y in the Watchtower, and I come along and said here’s what Person X really said, and it completely contradicts the Watchtower, would it make you question them or would you believe I were lying or making something up?

 

[Waynec]

What would your reaction have been to someone showing you a misquote? Like if the Governing Body wrote Person X said Thing Y in the Watchtower, and I come along and said here’s what Person X really said, and it completely contradicts the Watchtower, would it make you question them or would you believe I were lying or making something up?

I tried that with my JW friend with regards to their booklet “Should You Believe in The Trinity” and her answer was that Watchtower wrote what they felt was necessary for the Witness to know even after I proved to her that what they wrote was incorrect.

 

[Waynec]

You have had several conversations now, do you feel that she is listening or just talking?

I think she does both because some times she really has to dance around something to MAKE is say what the Watchtower teaches. She does some really fancy foot work. Some times I do feel sorry for her. We talk all the time actually we study together(another story for another thread)

 

[adf417]

It goes much deeper than misquoting. I have faught with JWs on what it is I truly worship and yet they “know better” as if they know my heart and mind. If they are not in the position to allow you to tell them what it is and what it is not you truly worship, there is no end where they will misquote, misunderstand, misconstrue…

Peace!!!

 

[ShanPO]

I tried that with my JW friend with regards to their booklet “Should You Believe in The Trinity” and her answer was that Watchtower wrote what they felt was necessary for the Witness to know even after I proved to her that what they wrote was incorrect.

So the WT felt it was necessary for the JW to know something that is wrong? How can someone be OK with that?

 

[Waynec]

So the WT felt it was necessary for the JW to know something that is wrong? How can someone be OK with that?

You have to realize that they frown on their members reading anything that is not of WT origin so even when I can prove something to her it is not from the WT writings so she doesn’t believe.

I wonder the same thing too. I actually think that lying is ok for them as long as it furthers their agenda. I think their members blindly flow their Governing Body. If they ask too many questions regarding the WT teachings they are asked to adjust their thinking. If this fails the member will leave the organization and maybe even be shunned.

 

[Jomann]

What would your reaction have been to someone showing you a misquote? Like if the Governing Body wrote Person X said Thing Y in the Watchtower, and I come along and said here’s what Person X really said, and it completely contradicts the Watchtower, would it make you question them or would you believe I were lying or making something up?

First of all you have to understand and accept that a JW is a mental prisoner. They will not hear ANYONE, ONLY the JW.org. And theirs lives are not normal, they are in a constant mode of ACTING. It’s not important to them to actually BE happy but ACT happy, for example.

And this condition is stronger when they are in the preaching mode.

But you can plant a seed in their minds. Their minds works in a very peculiar way, they have mental commands by using some key words, like a spell or hypnosis (is REALLY creepy). For example, the word “really” have some strong power over them. It’s a code word for what the Watchtower teaches. The Watchtower uses the expression “what the Bible REALLY says” when they refer to their doctrine. In short, they are very obsessed with the words REALLY and HAPPY (they even have a word “happifying”).

I left the watchtower ten years ago and I always think about a good seed to plant in their minds. And someday I read in an ex-JW forum a very good approach. Just don’t say anything religious and just say that:

---

You: Are you REALLY HAPPY(use your voice to emphasize these words) being a Jehovah’s Witness?

JW: Oh yes, I am! (in a very acting mode)

You: So my dear you must put more effort in your acting, because you are not fooling anyone.

(Say that in a very calm but firm voice, and don’t speak nothing more. This phrase will cause a disturbing silence, and after a few seconds just say some small talk about something else. Just that.)

---

I know it’s sound something not polite to say, but it’s a good way to plant a seed in their minds.

Believe me, this words said by a stranger will cut very deeply in a JW. If someone had said this to me in the preaching activity I probably would had a breakdown. And the “good” thing is they share the same mind-frame, so I think is possible to find an universal way to plant a seed. I used this before and the reaction is always the same. Please do that to every JW who knock at your door.

P.S sorry my broken English.

 

[ShanPO]

You have to realize that they frown on their members reading anything that is not of WT origin so even when I can prove something to her it is not from the WT writings so she doesn’t believe.

I wonder the same thing too. I actually think that lying is ok for them as long as it furthers their agenda. I think their members blindly flow their Governing Body. If they ask too many questions regarding the WT teachings they are asked to adjust their thinking. If this fails the member will leave the organization and maybe even be shunned.

I totally understand what you’re saying, what I really don’t get is how someone can be OK with being lied to, by their religious leaders no less. I think that’s why I wonder so much about my FIL who is currently a JW. He’s not a very educated man, but he is reasonably intelligent, so it kinda boggles my mind to think that he’s allowing himself to be sold a bill of goods.

Here’s another question, and if I’m getting off topic, I’m sorry, but is the JW message so great that it prompts people to abandon reason and blindly agree to follow?

 

[ajcstr]

You have to realize that they frown on their members reading anything that is not of WT origin so even when I can prove something to her it is not from the WT writings so she doesn’t believe.

I wonder the same thing too. I actually think that lying is ok for them as long as it furthers their agenda. I think their members blindly flow their Governing Body. If they ask too many questions regarding the WT teachings they are asked to adjust their thinking. If this fails the member will leave the organization and maybe even be shunned.

To me its just a shame. Their hearts are in the right place.

 

[Waynec]

I totally understand what you’re saying, what I really don’t get is how someone can be OK with being lied to, by their religious leaders no less. I think that’s why I wonder so much about my FIL who is currently a JW. He’s not a very educated man, but he is reasonably intelligent, so it kinda boggles my mind to think that he’s allowing himself to be sold a bill of goods.

Here’s another question, and if I’m getting off topic, I’m sorry, but is the JW message so great that it prompts people to abandon reason and blindly agree to follow?

I think that there is something missing in their lives and the WT fills that void. They seem to need the “academic” study of the bible and the constant meetings.

I wonder if they realize that when they do service they are working for the WT and not Jehovah. They use those two words interchangeably. They are doing Jehovah’s work, they are doing the work of the organisation. I would say most of them are sincere but are being mislead by their organisation.

I would wonder as posted by another here how happy they really are in the organisation. Many may be afraid to leave because if they do they could lose their family and friends. I think that is how they hold some of their members. A shame really.

 

[ShanPO]

I think that there is something missing in their lives and the WT fills that void. They seem to need the “academic” study of the bible and the constant meetings.

I wonder if they realize that when they do service they are working for the WT and not Jehovah. They use those two words interchangeably. They are doing Jehovah’s work, they are doing the work of the organisation. I would say most of them are sincere but are being mislead by their organisation.

I would wonder as posted by another here how happy they really are in the organisation. Many may be afraid to leave because if they do they could lose their family and friends. I think that is how they hold some of their members. A shame really.

I guess I could sorta buy that it feeds one’s ego. FIL has only been a JW for 18 months or so, but already he’s “teaching” within his Hall. I don’t know what that means, but I can see that it’s something he’s proud of when he discusses it.

Do they consider their organization (to loosely steal a term) in persona Christi? My guess would be if they do, then any work done for the Organization is work done for Jehovah. But that brings us back to what we were talking about, how can one be shown they are being misled, and respond with acceptance?

It’s kinda like a wife who is being cheated on and knows it, but because her husband buys her nice things occasionally, she lets it slide.

 

[ajcstr]

But that brings us back to what we were talking about, how can one be shown they are being misled, and respond with acceptance?

Well, I would think it would be a tough sell if they truly believe that the entire world is under the power of Satan and they are the only ones with the truth. We are talking about an organization that (off the top ov my head)

came into existence in the 1800’s
claims the true church went into apostasy immediately after the death of the apostles (so even those directly taught by the apostles got it wrong)
has had failed predictions
has changed doctrine
does not permit its member’s to read anything not published by the Watchtower
encourages members to shun those that leave
has rendered a Bible translation with verses never before seen (translated by persons not versed in Greek)
does not do any charitable work (hospitals, feeding the poor, etc.)
won’t even acknowledge that it is an offshoot of adventism
operates more like a sales organization than a faith

If NONE of these things raise a red flag to the followers (who in my opinion are truly and honestly trying to follow Jehovah and who honestly and truly don’t know the real Jesus) what is pointing out one or two inconsistencies to them going to do.

Jesus had some harsh things to say about the Pharisees, I don’t know that many of the Catholic leaders are doing much better. But the Watchtower leadership leaves these guys in the dust.

 

[ShanPO]

Well, I would think it would be a tough sell if they truly believe that the entire world is under the power of Satan and they are the only ones with the truth. We are talking about an organization that (off the top ov my head)

came into existence in the 1800’s
claims the true church went into apostasy immediately after the death of the apostles (so even those directly taught by the apostles got it wrong)
has had failed predictions
has changed doctrine
does not permit its member’s to read anything not published by the Watchtower
encourages members to shun those that leave
has rendered a Bible translation with verses never before seen (translated by persons not versed in Greek)
does not do any charitable work (hospitals, feeding the poor, etc.)
won’t even acknowledge that it is an offshoot of adventism
operates more like a sales organization than a faith

If NONE of these things raise a red flag to the followers (who in my opinion are truly and honestly trying to follow Jehovah and who honestly and truly don’t know the real Jesus) what is pointing out one or two inconsistencies to them going to do.

Jesus had some harsh things to say about the Pharisees, I don’t know that many of the Catholic leaders are doing much better. But the Watchtower leadership leaves these guys in the dust.

So that begs the question, when leadership intentionally deceives its members, do they legitimately think that what they’re doing is for their benefit? Does leadership really think that by lying to their members, they’re keeping them from the cold, hard world?

Consider this, if JW leadership came out tomorrow and said “You can start celebrating holidays, Jesus was crucified on a cross, and He is actually God along with the Holy Spirit in a Trinity” would people be devastated by that? It’s kinda like now, you have to maintain the show, otherwise people wouldn’t know how to handle it, and the outcomes of changing course would completely shatter the faithful.

I absolutely agree that your regular everyday JW is a faith filled person who truly and honestly feels they are doing right by God.

 

[Waynec]

So that begs the question, when leadership intentionally deceives its members, do they legitimately think that what they’re doing is for their benefit? Does leadership really think that by lying to their members, they’re keeping them from the cold, hard world?

Consider this, if JW leadership came out tomorrow and said “You can start celebrating holidays, Jesus was crucified on a cross, and He is actually God along with the Holy Spirit in a Trinity” would people be devastated by that? It’s kinda like now, you have to maintain the show, otherwise people wouldn’t know how to handle it, and the outcomes of changing course would completely shatter the faithful.

I absolutely agree that your regular everyday JW is a faith filled person who truly and honestly feels they are doing right by God.

Once upon a time the WT celebrated Christmas and believed that Jesus died on a cross. So if the WT changed back to celebrating Christmas I don’t think the membership would give it a second thought. The light would just be shining more brightly. They have a quote that they use , and I have been told it a dozen times and should write it down, so that when their doctrine changes the light is just shining more brightly. I find the entire thing so sad. They don’t realize that the deposit of faith is complete and there is nothing to be added to it.

 

[ShanPO]

Once upon a time the WT celebrated Christmas and believed that Jesus died on a cross. So if the WT changed back to celebrating Christmas I don’t think the membership would give it a second thought. The light would just be shining more brightly. They have a quote that they use , and I have been told it a dozen times and should write it down, so that when their doctrine changes the light is just shining more brightly. I find the entire thing so sad. They don’t realize that the deposit of faith is complete and there is nothing to be added to it.

I find it sad because if they do a complete 180 on a doctrine, someone could literally be cast from the religion for believing something one day and not believing that very thing the next. I wonder if that has happened, after a major doctrinal shift. Like after the failed prophecies, if someone were to question why it didn’t come true, what the response was.

 

[signit]

I guess I could sorta buy that it feeds one’s ego. FIL has only been a JW for 18 months or so, but already he’s “teaching” within his Hall. I don’t know what that means, but I can see that it’s something he’s proud of when he discusses it.

That might be a good point, about the ego thing.

Back 30+ years ago when I was involved I got a certain satisfaction thinking that I had “the truth,” not like all these Catholics like my mother who still believed in all these Catholic things.

 

[Waynec]

I find it sad because if they do a complete 180 on a doctrine, someone could literally be cast from the religion for believing something one day and not believing that very thing the next. I wonder if that has happened, after a major doctrinal shift. Like after the failed prophecies, if someone were to question why it didn’t come true, what the response was.

The response----THEY MADE A MISTAKE and are the first to admit it. Can you imagine if every few years the CC said they made a mistake in doctrine and changed it? How many Catholics do you think would stay in the Religion? I would leave in a heart beat because then I would realize that I was believing in a man made religion like the JW’s are.

 

[ShanPO]

The response----THEY MADE A MISTAKE and are the first to admit it. Can you imagine if every few years the CC said they made a mistake in doctrine and changed it? How many Catholics do you think would stay in the Religion? I would leave in a heart beat because then I would realize that I was believing in a man made religion like the JW’s are.

So the response to that should be “Well, if they made a mistake, and were teaching something incorrect, what’s going to happen to the souls of all the people who believed the incorrect teaching?” I guess though, if they don’t believe in a soul, they don’t really have to worry about that, right?

 

[Jomann]

They never admit they changed something. A JW cannot think about changes, but they must think they always believe that. It’s very orwellian, when they change the present they automatically change the past too. JW’s are not allowed to read old publications from Watchtower.

Yesterday: Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia.

Today: Oceania had always been at peace with Eurasia.