JW stopped by my house......

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[SIGN]adelore;6034446]Just a question…(dj dave)

If Jesus is not God, as you believe…and yet as a JW you do believe in the Bible, then why oh why did Thomas say, (when he saw Jesus after he had risen, mind you in front of others Thomas, our dear doubting Thomas, who didn’t believe Jesus had risen…) He said to Jesus once he touched him on his hands and his side, “My Lord and My God.”

Now if Jesus was not God, then Jesus should have corrected him, because after all, that would have been blaspheme. But instead Jesus reply was…“because you have seen… and blessed are those who have not seen, but believe.”

So do the JW’s think Jesus was a liar? Surely Jesus didn’t misunderstand what Thomas was saying.

So Jesus must be God, in human form.[/SIGN]

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. Question: What do the words “any time” mean to you?

(John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. Question: Did he just say this because he was in Human form? Compare Rev 3:12

(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’” AGAIN Compare Rev 3:12

(John 20:31) But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.

The following is an excerpt from an article I was recently reading. Don’t fault me for presenting a WT article:…It is exactly what I believe–WHY wouldn’t I want to display it?

.”
I know you want the Catholics to respond to these verses but you wrote a couple days ago and tried to quote early church fathers regarding that they did not believe in the Trinity but i used the same writers quoting their writings showing the believe in what we Christians still believe that Jesus is GOD and in the Trinity… don’t know if why you didn’t comment on that… these were the examples i wanted to show the JW’s that came to my house because one man say no one taught or believe in the Trinity but clearly writings before Arian showed in a Trinitarian GOD One GOD 3 divine persons… and this is how they understood scripture…
 
I know you want the Catholics to respond to these verses but you wrote a couple days ago and tried to quote early church fathers regarding that they did not believe in the Trinity but i used the same writers quoting their writings showing the believe in what we Christians still believe that Jesus is GOD and in the Trinity… don’t know if why you didn’t comment on that… these were the examples i wanted to show the JW’s that came to my house because one man say no one taught or believe in the Trinity but clearly writings before Arian showed in a Trinitarian GOD One GOD 3 divine persons… and this is how they understood scripture…
We’ve given Dave a lot of good explanations already and still he clings to his misguided beliefs. I don’t think there is anything we can do for him except to pray that he may be truly enlightened to the Truth of the Word. He still keeps on quoting that diabolical translation of the WBTS. He should burn that NWT and go get himself a REAL Bible to study! 🤷
 
Quoted by djdave:
(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. Question: What do the words “any time” mean to you?
This means that no one has ever seen God, the Father, in His full glory. And it is “only begotten Son”, not “only begotten god”.
(John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. Question: Did he just say this because he was in Human form? Compare Rev 3:12
No, He said it because of His filial relationship to His Father. Isn’t your father greater than you are? He derives his authority from the Father, as you did.
(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’” AGAIN Compare Rev 3:12
Yes, the Father is His God since He is begotten of the Father. He was NOT created. Did your father beget you or did he create you? Haven’t you ever as a child worshipped your father?
(John 20:31) But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.
PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Hey guys, check this out!

worldbibleschool.org/

WBS offers you a set of seven courses. These courses are called the “Master Series.” Each course has several lessons for you to complete. The lessons are heavily Bible-based and will help you learn the heart of the message about God, His love and grace, Jesus, the Gospel message, God’s family and how to live a life that honors and glorifies Him. A Certificate of Completion may be requested after finishing each course and passing the exams.

The WBS courses liberally refer to Scripture, helping you grasp the continuity of God’s message from beginning to end through the Old Testament and the New. Since all the Scriptures are included in the course material until the advanced courses, you can actually complete the coursework without a Bible in-hand.

The WBS courses use God’s own words to inform, inspire and ignite a personal faith response to God’s call to live your life in fellowship with Him. So go ahead and enroll NOW!

Oh, and did I mention that it’s FREE?! 👍
 
Hey guys, check this out!

worldbibleschool.org/

WBS offers you a set of seven courses. These courses are called the “Master Series.” Each course has several lessons for you to complete. The lessons are heavily Bible-based and will help you learn the heart of the message about God, His love and grace, Jesus, the Gospel message, God’s family and how to live a life that honors and glorifies Him. A Certificate of Completion may be requested after finishing each course and passing the exams.

The WBS courses liberally refer to Scripture, helping you grasp the continuity of God’s message from beginning to end through the Old Testament and the New. Since all the Scriptures are included in the course material until the advanced courses, you can actually complete the coursework without a Bible in-hand.

The WBS courses use God’s own words to inform, inspire and ignite a personal faith response to God’s call to live your life in fellowship with Him. So go ahead and enroll NOW!

Oh, and did I mention that it’s FREE?! 👍
Thanks for the info. I hope djdave takes you up on it. It would get him out of that trap he is in.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
[SIGN]cides23proves nothing… one is from a supposed bible theologian and one is practically a JW website or well looks like if that person is a JW… your point for these websites prove nothing… how many people come and claim they have the knowledge of this and that and they claim they are right…
[/SIGN]

web.archive.org/web/200312200…easyspace.com
scripturaltruths.com/way,
web.archive.org/web/200312041…/pageindex.htm
primitivechristians.com/B…es/colwell.htm

It shouldn’t matter WHO it’s placed by–it’s the INFORMATION that I am calling attention too on that site along with the many internal links… Not the people. The evidence presented in defense of the many accusations against us is quite reasonable.
 
[SIGN]cides23t… these were the examples i wanted to show the JW’s that came to my house because one man say no one taught or believe in the Trinity but clearly writings before Arian showed in a Trinitarian GOD One GOD 3 divine persons… and this is how they understood scripture…[/SIGN]

So were my quotes wrong? Made up?I’m currently looking into your comments.
Because of the following.

Are the 15 letters attributed to Ignatius accepted as authentic? In The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume I, editors Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson state:
“It is now the universal opinion of critics, that the first eight of these professedly Ignatian letters are spurious. They bear in themselves indubitable proofs of being the production of a later age . . . and they are now by common consent set aside as forgeries.”
If this is true what about the other quotes that seem to contradict my quotes in my post?

Why do the quotes contradict each other?
 
[SIGN]Javl;6038006]This means that no one has ever seen God, the Father, in His full glory. And it is “only begotten Son”, not “only begotten god”.[/SIGN]

The Greek word mo•no•ge•nes′ is defined by lexicographers as “single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.

The Scriptures speak of “the only-begotten son” of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ “only-begotten daughter,” and of a man’s “only-begotten” son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38) The Greek Septuagint uses mo•no•ge•nes′ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.”—Jg 11:34.

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo′gos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.

He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” (Joh 1:14, 18) It is hard to think of a closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a “son of God.” (Ge 6:2; Job 1:6; 38:7; Lu 3:38) But the Lo′gos, later called Jesus, is “the only-begotten Son of God.” (Joh 3:18) He is the only one of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels (Col 1:15, 16; Heb 1:5, 6), which angels the Scriptures call “godlike ones” or “gods.” (Ps 8:4, 5)** Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as “the only-begotten god [Gr., mo•no•ge•nes′ the•os′].”—Joh 1:18, NW, Ro, Sp.**

A few translations, in support of the Trinitarian “God the Son” concept, would invert the phrase mo•no•ge•nes′ the•os′ and render it as “God only begotten.” But W. J. Hickie in his Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament (1956, p. 123) says it is hard to see why these translators render mo•no•ge•nes′ hui•os′ as “the only begotten Son,” but at the same time translate mo•no•ge•nes′ the•os′ as “God only begotten,” instead of “the only begotten God.”

Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s “only-begotten son” (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2.

So from several viewpoints in regard to the promise and the covenant, the things about which Paul was writing to the Hebrews, Isaac was Abraham’s only-begotten son. Hence, Paul parallels “the promises” and the “only-begotten son” with “‘your seed’ . . . through Isaac.” (Heb 11:17, 18) Whether Josephus had a similar viewpoint or not, he too spoke of Isaac as Abraham’s “only son.”—Jewish Antiquities, I, 222 (xiii, 1).

[SIGN]No, He said it because of His filial relationship to His Father.** Isn’t your father greater than you are?** He derives his authority from the Father, as you did.[/SIGN]

…NO, NOT IF I AM MY FATHER

[SIGN]Yes, the Father is His God since He is begotten of the Father. He was NOT created. Did your father beget you or did he create you? Haven’t you ever as a child worshipped your father?[/SIGN]

NO, I haven’t and your answer makes no sense.

gotta run…

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
[SIGN]Javl;]djdave:

Why does the WBTS insist that there is no trinity because the word it is not in the Bible? Just because the word is not in scripture does not mean that the Holy Trinity does not exist. The Bible abounds with references to the Holy Trinity, starting with Gen 1:26. Who is the “we” or “us”? God has revealed to us as much as we are capable of understanding.
The rest we consider a mystery and rightly so. We accept the existance of the Holy Trinity on faith because God has said so.[/SIGN]

(John 4:22) YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know…

Do Not Read Too Much Into Bible Texts…use of the pronoun “us” does not mean that God was talking to an equal. At best it implies that among heavenly creatures, one occupies a preferred position in relation to God. Actually, the prehuman Jesus was God’s intimate associate, Master Worker, and Spokesman.—Genesis 1:26; 11:7; Proverbs 8:30, 31; John 1:3.
I’m curious, what do YOU think was being spoken about at Prov 8:30, 31?

Gotta run… back tomorrow
 
[SIGN]Javl;6038006]This means that no one has ever seen God, the Father, in His full glory. And it is “only begotten Son”, not “only begotten god”.[/SIGN]

The Greek word mo•no•ge•nes′ is defined by lexicographers as “single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.

The Scriptures speak of “the only-begotten son” of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ “only-begotten daughter,” and of a man’s “only-begotten” son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38) The Greek Septuagint uses mo•no•ge•nes′ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.”—Jg 11:34.

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo′gos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.

He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” (Joh 1:14, 18) It is hard to think of a closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a “son of God.” (Ge 6:2; Job 1:6; 38:7; Lu 3:38) But the Lo′gos, later called Jesus, is “the only-begotten Son of God.” (Joh 3:18) He is the only one of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels (Col 1:15, 16; Heb 1:5, 6), which angels the Scriptures call “godlike ones” or “gods.” (Ps 8:4, 5)** Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as “the only-begotten god [Gr., mo•no•ge•nes′ the•os′].”—Joh 1:18, NW, Ro, Sp.**

A few translations, in support of the Trinitarian “God the Son” concept, would invert the phrase mo•no•ge•nes′ the•os′ and render it as “God only begotten.” But W. J. Hickie in his Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament (1956, p. 123) says it is hard to see why these translators render mo•no•ge•nes′ hui•os′ as “the only begotten Son,” but at the same time translate mo•no•ge•nes′ the•os′ as “God only begotten,” instead of “the only begotten God.”

Paul referred to Isaac as Abraham’s “only-begotten son” (Heb 11:17), even though Abraham also fathered Ishmael by Hagar as well as several sons by Keturah. (Ge 16:15; 25:1, 2; 1Ch 1:28, 32) God’s covenant, however, was established only through Isaac, Abraham’s only son by God’s promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. (Ge 17:16-19) Furthermore, at the time Abraham offered up Isaac, he was the only son in his father’s household. No sons had yet been born to Keturah, and Ishmael had been gone for some 20 years—no doubt was married and head of his own household.—Ge 22:2.

So from several viewpoints in regard to the promise and the covenant, the things about which Paul was writing to the Hebrews, Isaac was Abraham’s only-begotten son. Hence, Paul parallels “the promises” and the “only-begotten son” with “‘your seed’ . . . through Isaac.” (Heb 11:17, 18) Whether Josephus had a similar viewpoint or not, he too spoke of Isaac as Abraham’s “only son.”—Jewish Antiquities, I, 222 (xiii, 1).

[SIGN]No, He said it because of His filial relationship to His Father.** Isn’t your father greater than you are?** He derives his authority from the Father, as you did.[/SIGN]

…NO, NOT IF I AM MY FATHER

[SIGN]Yes, the Father is His God since He is begotten of the Father. He was NOT created. Did your father beget you or did he create you? Haven’t you ever as a child worshipped your father?[/SIGN]

NO, I haven’t and your answer makes no sense.

gotta run…

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
Dave, I’m sorry to say that your explanation again is simply rhetoric. Are you countering the translations of the many theologians and scholars from whom I get my information? As they used to say “20 million Frenchmen can’t be wrong”. Therefore all the scholars and theologians are wrong because one “translator” says so? That is pretty hard to accept.

And of course, since you refuse to accept the existence of the Trinity, the other answers would make no sense to you, as your answers make no sense to me.

Thank you for your response.
 
[SIGN]Javl;]djdave:

Why does the WBTS insist that there is no trinity because the word it is not in the Bible? Just because the word is not in scripture does not mean that the Holy Trinity does not exist. The Bible abounds with references to the Holy Trinity, starting with Gen 1:26. Who is the “we” or “us”? God has revealed to us as much as we are capable of understanding.
The rest we consider a mystery and rightly so. We accept the existance of the Holy Trinity on faith because God has said so.[/SIGN]

(John 4:22) YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know…

Do Not Read Too Much Into Bible Texts…use of the pronoun “us” does not mean that God was talking to an equal. At best it implies that among heavenly creatures, one occupies a preferred position in relation to God. Actually, the prehuman Jesus was God’s intimate associate, Master Worker, and Spokesman.—Genesis 1:26; 11:7; Proverbs 8:30, 31; John 1:3.
I’m curious, what do YOU think was being spoken about at Prov 8:30, 31?

Gotta run… back tomorrow
Sorry, I skipped over this post.

I do not read into bible texts what is not there. I read and understand. Do you? As for one heavenly creature being preferred, might I ask since when has any of these heavenly creatures partaken of creation. I thought God alone created and that no one helped Him.( Isaiah 44:24 ). As for Proverbs 8:30-31, if you read the whole and not take a passage out of context, it is Wisdom that is spoken of in this proverb.

Also do you accept John 1:3, that Jesus is the Word?

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Sorry, I skipped over this post.

I do not read into bible texts what is not there. I read and understand. Do you? As for one heavenly creature being preferred, might I ask since when has any of these heavenly creatures partaken of creation. I thought God alone created and that no one helped Him.( Isaiah 44:24 ). As for Proverbs 8:30-31, if you read the whole and not take a passage out of context, it is Wisdom that is spoken of in this proverb.

Also do you accept John 1:3, that Jesus is the Word?

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
It is fact that the JW are acult now we have another the christadeians
 
Dave,
All this verse-slinging is wearing me out.
Can we just leave that aside and get to the HEART of our differences ?
If so, I never saw your reply to my posted comments back around #324 - 331.
What I said was the following:.
(please refer to 324 for the context of my reply to you )

What you wrote here reveals a significant difference between us, and i am guessing between JWs & RCs, and probably between JWs and many protestant Christians as well.
In my Faith, there is little separation between what I do in worship and during the rest of my time, because I know that Christ is with me all the time. He shares my entire life, like a good friend or the closest family member. As a matter of fact Jesus Christ is closer to me than all others because He knows my heart better than anyone. He has requested that I include Him in my everyday life as a true friend, not just during the times I ‘formally’ worship Him. I have accepted that request. HE is PRESENT by invitation at all I do. Therefore He brings His grace into everything I invite Him to share with me. When I invite Him to be present, the very possibility of evil is banished. When done for His glory, all is joy and grace.
Therefore I needn’t worry about what some magician did with a particular practice in some cult, ancient or modern. I am FREED from that kind of worrisome burden.
In Christ, all is joy. Including birthday parties.
Don’t you see, He rejoices with us whenever we shower love on those around us. That was a big reason He came, to teach us that. When we are perfect , we will do it as well as HE did !
I try to take this challenge of His seriously every day of my life------> Jn 15:12: "This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. "
 
It is fact that the JW are acult now we have another the christadeians
Most definitely they are a cult. They fit in with the Mormons, Christian Science, The Way international, etc. They all deny the Holy Trinity, and that Jesus is God. Never heard of chistadeians. Any info on them? Thanks and God bless.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
hi to everyone, JESUS is not just a prophet, or a good teacher, also it is not what he said that makes any difference it is what HE did on the cross. and who HE is, i am sorry that jw’s try to put JESUS in his place, i will pray for all of the societies members (living and dead).
 
dj dave hi , Why does the NWT translate you,your, etc… into YOU , YOUR,etc… sounds like mind manipulation to me, and do you personally believe what YOU are trying to make everyone else believe… Jesus said " I am the resurrection and the life…everyone who lives and believes in me will never die." In all of YOUR magazines YOU say Jehovah will resurrect the JWs. does this mean Jesus is Jehovah? Also what is in a name. there is a reason why the Jews dont pronounce the name of GOD, The Jws take HIS name and create a god in their liking. make no mistake YOUR god is not GOD you have been seduced into believing in a cheap imitation. masked like sheep in wolves clothing. YOU try to say YOU have all the answers…one other thing JESUS said was in the last days people will say he is over here or over in the wilderness. Jesus said dont follow them … the Jws say Jesus came back in 1914, but in 1918 they were saying he was going to come back in 1925? if he came back in 1914 dont YOU think the Jws would have known it…or maybe they were confused and needed more LIGHT that gets BRIGHTER and BRIGHTER…sounds to me like YOU guys are in a tunnel and blinded and just because YOU use the tetragramaton YOU claim to be gods voice on earth…
 
To All:

In my post #409, I am guilty of what I have accused djdave of, that is, not reading the whole of the scripture from which a passage was taken. In doing so I have given the wrong answer. I am ashamed. I apologize to djdave and to all for so grievous an error and beg forgiveness. I will make sure not to do it again.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
To All:

In my post #409, I am guilty of what I have accused djdave of, that is, not reading the whole of the scripture from which a passage was taken. In doing so I have given the wrong answer. I am ashamed. I apologize to djdave and to all for so grievous an error and beg forgiveness. I will make sure not to do it again.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
Javi, Please not not feet bad, I make a error 35 years ago and my wife is still outting me on the hat set
 
[SIGN]Bob4BVM
Dave,
All this verse-slinging is wearing me out.
Can we just leave that aside and get to the HEART of our differences ?
If so, I never saw your reply to my posted comments back around #324 - 331.
What I said was the following:.
(please refer to 324 for the context of my reply to you )

What you wrote here reveals a significant difference between us, and i am guessing between JWs & RCs, and probably between JWs and many protestant Christians as well.
In my Faith, there is little separation between what I do in worship and during the rest of my time, because I know that Christ is with me all the time. He shares my entire life, like a good friend or the closest family member. As a matter of fact Jesus Christ is closer to me than all others because He knows my heart better than anyone. He has requested that I include Him in my everyday life as a true friend, not just during the times I ‘formally’ worship Him. I have accepted that request. HE is PRESENT by invitation at all I do. Therefore He brings His grace into everything I invite Him to share with me. When I invite Him to be present, the very possibility of evil is banished. When done for His glory, all is joy and grace.
Therefore I needn’t worry about what some magician did with a particular practice in some cult, ancient or modern. I am FREED from that kind of worrisome burden.
In Christ, all is joy. Including birthday parties.
Don’t you see, He rejoices with us whenever we shower love on those around us. That was a big reason He came, to teach us that. When we are perfect , we will do it as well as HE did !
I try to take this challenge of His seriously every day of my life------> Jn 15:12: "This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. "[/SIGN]

I truly appreciate your feelings and I agree to a certain point…but, we do have a major difference.

I noticed that in your comments, you made no mention of Jehovah or YHWH whichever name you prefer. Yet, you pray '“Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name”

Moreover, you also made no mention of his Kingdom "your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Those points are the main differences with our beliefs. They were first and foremost in Jesus instruction on ‘how to pray’…and what to pray for. It was the THEME of his preaching Mark 13:10

In his last evening at the "Last Supper’ he prayed :"I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

Footnotes:
John 17:6 Greek your name; also in verse 26

King James Bible
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

American King James Version
And I have declared to them your name, and will declare it: that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.

American Standard Version
and I made known unto them thy name, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou lovedst me may be in them, and I in them.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And I have made known thy name to them, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou hast loved me, may be in them, and I in them.

Darby Bible Translation
And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.

Webster’s Bible Translation
And I have declared to them thy name, and will declare it: that the love with which thou hast loved me, may be in them, and I in them.

DID you notice that THAT is the way Jesus’ love would be in his disciples as it is in him and his FATHER? …By knowing HIS Father’s NAME?

We believe that Jesus is our salvation because he gave his life for us as a ransom for Adams sin.
But it was Jehovah that “loved the world so as to give his Son” John 3:16
Jesus was obedient to his father–but he does not want undue attention given him which most if not all of Christendom does. Compare John 15:21

(John 5:19-20) …The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, in order that YOU may marvel.

It is TRUE (John 5:23-24) ..in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.*

But also, (John 5:30) ..I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jesus spoke constantly about “the good news of the kingdom.” (Matthew 4:23) In fact, he spoke more about the Kingdom than he did about anything else. Why? Because the Kingdom is the instrument that God will use to solve the problems that make life so difficult today. By means of the Kingdom, God will soon put an end to wars, hunger, disease, and crime, and he will bring about unity and peace. Just as he originally purposed Gen 1:28-30. Do you believe this?

As for your deep love for Jesus, never stop. He left himself as a model to follow 1 Peter 2:21

NOW, I have some questions for you…Cont. back tomorrow
 
[SIGN]billsabre;dj dave hi , Why does the NWT translate you,your, etc… into YOU , YOUR,etc… sounds like mind manipulation to me, and do you personally believe what YOU are trying to make everyone else believe.[/SIGN]

*** Rbi8 p. 7 Introduction ***
SECOND PERSON PLURALS: Where “YOU” is printed in small capital letters, it shows that the pronoun is plural. Also, where the plural number of a verb is not apparent, its plurality is indicated by printing it in small capital letters. If the context already clearly indicates plurality, then no special capitalization is used.

[SIGN]Jesus said " I am the resurrection and the life…everyone who lives and believes in me will never die." In all of YOUR magazines YOU say Jehovah will resurrect the JWs. does this mean Jesus is Jehovah? [/SIGN]

We believe that refers to Armageddon survivors

Actually those that go to heaven According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44 , must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ’s return. They will instantly be “caught up,” “in the twinkling of an eye,” to be with the Lord.—1 Cor. 15:51, 52, RS; also Revelation 14:13.

Further,
(1 Corinthians 15:35-36) 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies

Jesus knew at the time of his baptism in the Jordan River that he was entering upon a sacrificial course. He knew that his ‘prepared body’ must be put to death, that he must die in innocence as a perfect human sacrifice with ransoming value for mankind. (Mt 20:28) Jesus understood that he must be plunged into death but that he would be raised out of it on the third day. (Mt 16:21) So he likened his experience to a baptism into death. (Lu 12:50) He explained to his disciples that he was already undergoing this baptism during his ministry. (Mr 10:38, 39) He was baptized fully into death when he was plunged into death by being impaled on the torture stake on Nisan 14, 33 C.E. His resurrection by his Father Jehovah God on the third day completed this baptism, which includes a raising up. Jesus’ baptism into death is clearly distinct and separate from his water baptism, for he had completely undergone water baptism at the beginning of his ministry, at which time his baptism into death only began.

The faithful apostles of Jesus Christ were baptized in water by John’s baptism. (Joh 1:35-37; 4:1) But they had not yet been baptized with holy spirit when Jesus pointed out that they were also to be baptized in a symbolic baptism like his, a baptism into death. (Mr 10:39) So baptism into his death is something apart from water baptism. Paul expressed himself in his letter to the Christian congregation at Rome, saying: “Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?”—Ro 6:3.

It is Jehovah God who is responsible for the performing of such baptism into Christ Jesus as well as baptism into his death. He anointed Jesus, making him the Christ or Anointed One. (Ac 10:38) Thus God baptized Jesus with the holy spirit in order that, through Jesus, his followers might thereafter be baptized with holy spirit. Therefore, those who become joint heirs with him, with heavenly hopes, have to be “baptized into Christ Jesus,” that is, into the Anointed Jesus who, at the time of his anointing, was also begotten to be a spiritual son of God. They thereby become united to him, their Head, and they become members of the congregation that is the body of Christ.—1Co 12:12, 13, 27; Col 1:18.

The course of these Christian followers who are baptized into Christ Jesus is a course of integrity-keeping under test from the time they are baptized into Christ, a daily facing of death and finally a death of integrity, as described by the apostle Paul when he explained to the Roman Christians: “Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.”—Ro 6:4, 5; 1Co 15:31-49.

The apostle Paul speaks of this first resurrection also as “the earlier resurrection from the dead [literally, the out-resurrection the out of dead (ones)].” (Php 3:11, NW, Ro, Int)

[SIGN]Also what is in a name. there is a reason why the Jews dont pronounce the name of GOD, [/SIGN]

CONT.
 
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