katholikos

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ziapueblo

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Christ is Risen!

Greetings all,

So an acquaintance of mine said that calling the Church Catholic holds not merit because the word katholikos is not found in Sacred Scripture. I of course mentioned that his argument holds no water because he believes in the Trinity and the word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?

Thanks,
ZP****
 
I doubt your friend would contest the idea that the Church of Jesus Christ is catholic (lowercase) - the word means “for all people, in all places, at all times” (which is what we mean when we say the Church is “universal”). Surely he would not dispute the idea that the merits of Our Lord’s Sacrifice (salvation) is offered to everyone.

So he’s not really disputing the word - he’s disputing the idea that the Church of Rome is the ONE TRUE Catholic Church.

That’s a different discussion.
 
ziapueblo said:
Christ is Risen!

Greetings all,

So an acquaintance of mine said that calling the Church Catholic holds not merit because the word katholikos is not found in Sacred Scripture. I of course mentioned that his argument holds no water because he believes in the Trinity and the word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?

Thanks,
ZP**** Pray for them! Where does the bible say that it contains all truth, or that what we believe must be contained within it? It does not. They have been mislead.

Our Lord says that we live on every word that issues from the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4), but the bible also tells us that every word of God is not in it (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40, 1 Corinthians 11:34, etc.). Ask them about that.
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ziapueblo said:
Christ is Risen!

Greetings all,

So an acquaintance of mine said that calling the Church Catholic holds not merit because the word katholikos is not found in Sacred Scripture. I of course mentioned that his argument holds no water because he believes in the Trinity and the word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?

Thanks,
ZP****

Jesus commanded His apostles to go to all nations and teach everything He taught them. That would make the Church universal. Catholic means universal…

Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …
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Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19 touch on the universal aspect Church: the gospel being preached throughout the world and disciples made from all nations, etc.
 
ziapueblo said:
Christ is Risen!

Greetings all,

So an acquaintance of mine said that calling the Church Catholic holds not merit because the word katholikos is not found in Sacred Scripture. I of course mentioned that his argument holds no water because he believes in the Trinity and the word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?

Thanks,
ZP****

Greetings in Christ, ZP!

Here’s a little quote from Augustine you might want to use:

“I too indeed have attained to a very slight knowledge of the Greek language, scarcely to be called knowledge at all, yet I am not shameless in saying that I know that ὅλον means not ‘one,’ but ‘the whole;’ and that καθ’ ὅλον means ‘according to the whole’: whence the Catholic Church received its name, according to the saying of the Lord, ‘It is not for you to know the times, which the Father hath put in His own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in Judea, and in Samaria, and even in the whole earth’ (Acts 1:7-8). Here you have the origin of the name ‘Catholic.’ But you are so bent upon running with your eyes shut against the mountain which grew out of a small stone, according to the prophecy of Daniel, and filled the whole earth (cf. Daniel 2:35), that you actually tell us that we have gone aside into a part, and are not in the whole among those whose communion is spread throughout the whole earth” (Against Petilian, Bk. 2, Ch. 38:91).

In Christ,
Pete
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I am supprised no one yet posted the letter of St. Ignatius of Antioch (circa 108) where it said wherever the Bishop is there is the Catholic Church. If it took that long to be written down you can bet that it was used in the oral teachings long before. But that might not be accepted by a person who believes that if it ain’t in the bible then it is not to be taken as true. In the writings of St. Luke, he talks about the followers of the “way” , way meaning “Hodas”. The book of Exodus mean the “way out” or ex-hodas. So the Church’s name means the way out of …-many things including sin and bondage etc. Maybe this will help a bible only christian?

mdcpensive1
 
ziapueblo said:
Christ is Risen!

Greetings all,

So an acquaintance of mine said that calling the Church Catholic holds not merit because the word katholikos is not found in Sacred Scripture. I of course mentioned that his argument holds no water because he believes in the Trinity and the word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?

Thanks,
ZP****

If your friend is a betting person tell him that not only is the word ‘catholic’ in scripture but the term ‘catholic church’ is there too. Then ask him how much he wants to bet and ask to see the money first. Then take him to Acts chapter 9 verse 31 where you will find this verse:

“So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Sama’ria had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied.”
[Acts 9:31 RSV]

Notice the words “the church throughout all”. That is the RSV translation of the Greek
words, “Ecclesia kata holis” or the Catholic Church.

Interesting that this should come up npow as this was one of the readings at Mass this past Sunday.
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Grandfather,
You stated: “Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …”

Actually my denomination is the only one mentioned by name in the Bible. You have no doubt heard of “John, the Baptist” ??? (LOL)
 
Slave_of_Jesus said:
Grandfather,
You stated: “Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …”

Actually my denomination is the only one mentioned by name in the Bible. You have no doubt heard of “John, the Baptist” ??? (LOL)
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I didn’t know that you were an Essene LOL !!!
 
po18guy said:
Pray for them! Where does the bible say that it contains all truth, or that what we believe must be contained within it? It does not. They have been mislead.

Our Lord says that we live on every word that issues from the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4), but the bible also tells us that every word of God is not in it (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40, 1 Corinthians 11:34, etc.). Ask them about that.
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Actually, St. Paul wrote to Timothy and he called the Church “the ground and pillar of truth.” When we resolve disputes, what did they say if your brother would not listen to you? “Bring him to the Church.” Wow. The Church is a major thing in Scripture, it would seem, just as in Acts 20:28 they advise the leaders of the Church to “rule the Church of God.” Interesting since very early times, from the beginning, they had a Church that had truth and authority. Nothing has changed.
 
Slave_of_Jesus said:
Grandfather,
You stated: “Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …”

Actually my denomination is the only one mentioned by name in the Bible. You have no doubt heard of “John, the Baptist” ??? (LOL)
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John the Baptist I know from the Bible. Southern Baptist I do not know. Odd that some who identifies as a Baptist believes baptism is an ordinance and not a sacrament.
 
ziapueblo said:
Christ is Risen!

Greetings all,

So an acquaintance of mine said that calling the Church Catholic holds not merit because the word katholikos is not found in Sacred Scripture. I of course mentioned that his argument holds no water because he believes in the Trinity and the word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?

Thanks,
ZP****

The church of this dispensation of the grace of God is called “The Body of Christ” Ephesians 1:22,23; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Romans 7:4; 1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 12:27; Ephesians 4:12. Paul is the only writer to designate it as such.
I pray that this helps.
Grace and Peace,
QC
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Slave_of_Jesus said:
Grandfather,
You stated: “Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …”

Actually my denomination is the only one mentioned by name in the Bible. You have no doubt heard of “John, the Baptist” ??? (LOL)
Click to expand...
My mom was once listed in a county Centennial Book as Baptist, along with many others, because she was a member of “St. John the Baptist Church.”

But even in 325 the Church leaders found that “Sola Scriptura” was not enough. The Arians were arguing from Scripture that Jesus was not really God, nor really fully human, but sort of in between. That’s why the council used “homousios”, of one being, consubstantial–not a word of Scripture, but necessary to express what was believed from early days.

Similarly, Matthew and Acts both often speak of the Church, perhaps not as “catholic,” but it’s the same community that continued to exist without break or a new founder until it was called Catholic.
 
ziapueblo said:
Christ is Risen!
My question though, were in Scripture can I show him that the Church is Catholic? That the Church is universal?
Click to expand...
As others are indicating… There are references to what the Church founded by Christ will be like.

The only Church that fits this would be the Catholic Church centered in Rome, aka “The Latin Rite” or “Roman Catholic”

In the bible we see that the Paul urges Christians to stick to their traditions both oral and written. - The Catholic church follows the bible, but also cross checks that with the oral tradition taught to it by the Apostles and has not changed its core teachings (Dogmas) since the beginning when it was founded.

In the bible we see that if there is a dispute between 2 or more Christians, that they are to take a 3rd witness, if the person still won’t agree and persists in their own interpretation…then Christians are told to bring the dispute “to the Church” - NOT the bible.
The Catholic church follows this rule while other churches do not, instead allowing each person to have their own interpretation of scripture and break apart based on disagreements.

In the bible we see that the Apostles were commanded to go out and spread the message. This makes the church that Christ founded “univeral” - or “Kathiloskos” in Greek. No other church can lay claim to that universalism especially for the first 1500 years of Christianity. There are STILL places where the Protestant missionaries have not gone…but that the Catholic church has been for hundreds of years.

In the bible we see that Christ seems to give the Apostles the Holy Spirit to guide them in Truth. The Catholic church is the only church that teaches that the Holy Spirit still guides its leaders from changing dogmas and it has a perfect tract record of not changing things. All other churches do not have Apostolic succession, do not claim to be infallible and most can be proven that they’ve changed their core doctrines over time.

Lastly… the bible says that not everything was written down. We know the Apostles stayed in places for months at a time, yet we don’t have perfect transcripts of everything they said and did. The apostle John even says that not everything that Christ said was written down.
Yet the Catholic church alone has a physical link back to the people who the apostles taught, themselves. Men like Ignatius of Antioch, who was taught by Mark. And we don’t see the Church changing Dogmas/Doctrines over time like so many other Churches. So we know we more was taught then what is contained in the bible and the one church which has kept these teachings sacred is the Catholic church centered in Rome.
 
Oh, and part of being the Catholic Church is accommodating a wide variety of persons, outlooks, forms of worship, vocations, and so on.

Some accuse monks (like me) of navel gazing, being useless in spreading the Gospel, ignoring so many needs in the Church and world. That’s missing the point of our vocation. We are in the midst of the Church to remind ourselves and others that seeking God is the point of all the rest that we do, that without that silence of spirit in God’s presence, we can lose focus on what matters in the end, and all our works become simply busywork or avoiding God. It’s not an either-or situation. The Church is big enough for both active and contemplative members, for both those called to marriage and family and those called to celibacy in vowed life, and so on. Similarly, our worship can accommodate both the traditional EF, and the OF.
 
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