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drac16
Guest
That’s good to hear. God can deliver people from homosexuality; don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
Notice, Paul says “such were some of you”. Some of the corinthians were involved in homosexuality, but God saved them from it. Praise be to God for rescuing Katy from that sin! People can be delivered from homosexuality in the same way that they can be delivered from thievery, blasphemy, fornication, greed, etc. When someone is born again, they leave behind the things they once loved to do, so that they can follow Christ. That’s why Paul said “consider yourselves dead to sin”.
Notice, Paul says “such were some of you”. Some of the corinthians were involved in homosexuality, but God saved them from it. Praise be to God for rescuing Katy from that sin! People can be delivered from homosexuality in the same way that they can be delivered from thievery, blasphemy, fornication, greed, etc. When someone is born again, they leave behind the things they once loved to do, so that they can follow Christ. That’s why Paul said “consider yourselves dead to sin”.
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Goldenhope
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Corinthian “homosexuality” was nothing like its modern meaning. It was more aking to a tamer pedophilia.
In Greek culture, it was normal for men to have much younger students to share everything with, including sex. Having sex with a younger man was considered a norm, as it would teach him how to do it with others. This was independent from the sexual orientation - most of this young students had sex with older men to practice for their future wives -, it was a cultural habit. Therefore, you could renounce to it because it was a choice, independent from sexuality, which is (scientifically proven) not a choice.
Therefore, St. Paul was NOT talking about regular gay men. He was talking about this peculiar habit of Corinthian - and Greek - people, considered as disgusting by Romans (including St. Paul). As a matter of fact, gay men were most commonly identified as eunuchs - man lacking masculine qualities, both literally (if their sex organs had been cut off) and figuratively (if they were effeminate and/or homosexual). And Jesus had absolutely nothing againist eunuchs (Matthew 19:12). Also, God “can’t” deliver you from homosexuality - meaning that there are no reported cases of “miraculous sexual healings”. A lot of gay people feel bad about it, a lot pray to be delivered, but nothing happens. And besides - it would be pretty whimsical, coming from God: with all the people praying for healing of a loved one, for cessation of wars, for spiritual strenghth on much graver matters, He answers a person unwilling to bear his weight in this world - and a relatively light one, since he/she was born in a century where the Church does not burn you at stake for being gay and the entire world tries to be more open-minded and accepting about your sexuality?
Also, if you read the article, Katy clearly states her utmost respect for LGBT people (saying she would not be the woman she is if it was not for them) after “bursting her bubble”.
Therefore, it’s safe to assume that her fearful stance towards gay people has changed, and considering how she was brought up in a fundamentalist lifestyle, it probably was for the better.
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Peter_J
Guest
I think you hit on the key.
When people say they “pray the gay away” they presumably mean “pray for deliverance from homosexuality” (not from happiness
) but if you look up the word “homosexuality” you’ll see it has different definitions. (Much to the delight, I strongly suspect, of people on the far left who like to muddy the waters, but that’s another tin of worms.)Look at it this way: suppose I’m tempted to have sex with a woman who isn’t my wife, but I resist with the help of prayer. Would you say that God delivered me from heterosexuality?
I’m guessing you would not want to answer that unless I first defined what I mean by it.
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Viki63
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I think you are mistaken. I’ve noticed several articles online about people changing their lifestyles. I don’t think the changes were instant miracles, but maybe they were miraculous. Here is one. I don’t know much about that one, but it’s not the only one.
Of course God “can” deliver anyone from anything. A lot of people who have SSA live chaste lives.
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Goldenhope
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Ah yes, the fabled “conversion therapies”. Too bad they’re shunned from the scientific consensus, and ultimately prove they don’t work. The person does not “become” heterosexual. He’s “brainwashed” (an inverted, heterosexual “gender theory”) into feeling guilty and ashamed and being what he truly is, and convincing oneself he’s changed to being heterosexual.
It does not work. It’s like dying one’s hair - you just cover what you are, you do not change the original color.
All in all, this “conversions” happen, but they’re not genuine: the person is just unconsciously repressing his true self out of guilt and desire.
Also, on a broader note, do not trust every article on internet. Not only you will find an equally large amount of people claiming the contrary. And it’s likely you’ll find quite the number of false information on both sides
Also, about the book, I’d take with more than a couple of grains of salt. The guy is a devout Christian, and therefore, not only it is by no mean impartial, but also heavily “guilt tripped”.
If you look outside Amazon reviews, many people (gay or not) complain about the overly exaggerated drama, the prejudiced (or outright flase) premises, and overall the boasting of having “fixed” homosexuality through his methods.
I’d recommend him, before looking at homosexuality, to get a look at his pride issues.
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Peter_J
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I think people on all sides need to be careful not to make blanket generalizations. I agree with you that there are some greatly inflated “conversion therapy success rates” out there; but I think there are some cases where a person thinks he or she is gay, but if given good therapy (and please note I’m not claiming that most of the “conversion therapy” out there is good therapy) then he or she can overcome some childhood trauma and “become straight”.Ah yes, the fabled “conversion therapies”. Too bad they’re shunned from the scientific consensus, and ultimately prove they don’t work. The person does not “become” heterosexual. He’s “brainwashed” (an inverted, heterosexual “gender theory”) into feeling guilty and ashamed and being what he truly is, and convincing oneself he’s changed to being heterosexual.
It does not work. It’s like dying one’s hair - you just cover what you are, you do not change the original color.
All in all, this “conversions” happen, but they’re not genuine: the person is just unconsciously repressing his true self out of guilt and desire.
Also, on a broader note, do not trust every article on internet. Not only you will find an equally large amount of people claiming the contrary. And it’s likely you’ll find quite the number of false information on both sides
Also, about the book, I’d take with more than a couple of grains of salt. The guy is a devout Christian, and therefore, not only it is by no mean impartial, but also heavily “guilt tripped”.
If you look outside Amazon reviews, many people (gay or not) complain about the overly exaggerated drama, the prejudiced (or outright flase) premises, and overall the boasting of having “fixed” homosexuality through his methods.
I’d recommend him, before looking at homosexuality, to get a look at his pride issues.
But please understand that what I’m saying is not the same as those who say “If you’re gay then it’s because you were abused” (or “were too close to your father” or “had a distant mother” etc). Essentially I’m just saying that there are exceptions to what you’re saying.
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Fiasco
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Dr Joseph Nicolosi who died early this month was a psychologist who helped SSA sufferers to overcome disordered desires. His wife (and others) worked with him.
These worked from here.
lifesitenews.com/news/joe-nicolosi-who-passed-away-at-age-70-helped-thousands-coping-with-unwante
youtube.com/watch?v=z_GLo3hD964
i listened to all of Part 1 of that interview, and he knows what he’s talking about. The business about the triangle and the older brother is spot on. Thanks be to God, it didn’t push me over the edge.
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Goldenhope
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Of course. Therapy can and will help those who suffered a trauma and/or are trying to figure out their sexuality.
I was talking about those who already know and accept their being gay “naturally”, born that way.
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Goldenhope
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The ones who “worked” were those who suffered abuse, traumas, childhood disturbs…all people who were not gay to begin with.Dr Joseph Nicolosi who died early this month was a psychologist who helped SSA sufferers to overcome disordered desires. His wife (and others) worked with him.
These worked from here.
lifesitenews.com/news/joe-nicolosi-who-passed-away-at-age-70-helped-thousands-coping-with-unwante
youtube.com/watch?v=z_GLo3hD964
i listened to all of Part 1 of that interview, and he knows what he’s talking about. The business about the triangle and the older brother is spot on. Thanks be to God, it didn’t push me over the edge.
Also, Nicolosi is pretty controversial.
Many criticize his research as based on sterotypes, prejudices and flaws (he insists homosexuality is dystonic. It’s not.) Not to mention, his ways of “canceling gay impulses” looks like something straight out of Clockwork Orange.
Apart from that, of course, it’s truly commendable that he helped some overcome their traumas.
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Otar_Mendes
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“Dr” Joseph Nicolosi was a known charlatan 
The world has become a better place now that he is gone. I wish his despicable organization NARTH was gone too,
He could never present any data from the peer reviewed sources supporting his wild, unscientific and damaging claims.
The world has become a better place now that he is gone. I wish his despicable organization NARTH was gone too,He could never present any data from the peer reviewed sources supporting his wild, unscientific and damaging claims.
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Peter_J
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Indeed.
People on the far left and the far right both muddy the waters at times. (Not talking about you of course.
) WRT the matter at hand, I’ve noticed that people will use the term ex-gay inconsistently: sometimes it means change of sexual orientation (which many think is impossible or at least extremely rare), sometimes it means the above (which I might dub “straight again therapy”), and even sometimes it means cases where the person was and still is gay but his or her behavior is no longer “gay”.
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Eliza10
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Thanks for the link Viki! Its a good one! Most all of us have someone we love or someone related to us who is either homosexual or is involved in some other irregular relationship. (By irregular I am referring to being outside the Catholic morality). Its a delicate subject, but I always try to remember I have my own issues to work on. I do like understanding, and his book seems to shed a lot of understanding. For anyone who wants to read a part of the book or all of it, I see its available online, free, here! -
beyondtheshadesofgray.org/
I have been reading parts of it ad I am impressed. I am also impressed its available free!
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Goldenhope
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I agree, many people use this term in a banal, generalized fashion - and many don’t understand its meaning.Indeed.
People on the far left and the far right both muddy the waters at times. (Not talking about you of course.
Gay “behavior” is a tough matter though: not all gays are extravagant, limp wristed, lipstick sporting dudes (and I personally think those who do it are pretty dumb. I mean, you’ll never convince people you’re like them if you look like you came straight out of Priscilla Queen of the Desert. I understand you want to affirm and express yourself, but dude…“est modus in rebus”, there is a middle ground for everything. You can’t be that extravagant and ask me to take you seriously…).
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Goldenhope
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Agreed. The more I look around about this guy, the worse it gets.“Dr” Joseph Nicolosi was a known charlatan
He could never present any data from the peer reviewed sources supporting his wild, unscientific and damaging claims.
His claims range from baffling to thinly veiled homophobia.
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Peter_J
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Indeed.
This btw is one reason that I and many other conservatives sometimes prefer to say “homosexual” (though I can understand how some gays are put off by that does: it does sound rather clinical) rather than the looser term “gay”.
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Goldenhope
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It’s understandable (it’s as if white people were called “caucasians” all the time)
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Fiasco
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He said that himself in that interview (which you wouldn’t have watched)! Why put “worked” in inverted commas?
He, along with some others, stated that a so-called “gay” gene hasn’t been pinned down.
Scripture alone should be enough to show any Christian that there’s no such gene.
“Many” is a vague word. “Many” also praised his work, so it goes both ways.
At least you admit that much.
Based soley on just a few minutes of an interview (linked to earlier)…“Dr” Joseph Nicolosi was a known charlatan
Those words:
are based on FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. My father was physically strong. i was (and still am) a weakling, in other words, a disappointment, and unable to mix. He was impatient. My mother was domineering. More than once,a five-years-older brother sat on top of me, holding both of my arms back with one of his hands, and rocked back and forth, grunting. As a ten year old, i was too naive and stupid to understand what he was practising. So, to repeat, thanks be to God, i wasn’t pushed over the edge. A spirit of defiance, still here, probably helped.
In other words, **HE DID KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, AND MY OWN CLOSE-SHAVE TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE CONFIRMS IT! **
**So, are you able to back up your hostile claims with the same sort of evidence??? **
By extrapolating from my own experience, it’s easy enough to understand the fall into SSA.
Exactly what his many enemies, the homophiles and “LGBTQ etc” propagandists are saying! Apart from that, what peers?
How dare he challenge them!!! He was so infuriatingly politically incorrect!
They hate him because he (among others) helped to turn many SSA sufferers around, rather than mindlessly “accept” and “confirm” them in an unnatural, very unhealthy and life-shortening “lifestyle”.
You have an axe to grind???
Political correctness is a scourge!
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Goldenhope
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Because HE said it. It is up to the actual patients of the therapy to decide wether it works or not.
That’s laughably proposterous. The Bible is many things - a book of history, of man’s relationship with God, of poetry and prayer. But it IS NOT, by any means, a scientific book.He, along with some others, stated that a so-called “gay” gene hasn’t been pinned down.
Scripture alone should be enough to show any Christian that there’s no such gene.
So no, at least to me, Scriptures are nowhere near as enough in scientific matters. If we acted this way, we would still believe the Sun rotates around Earth (which would be born 6000 years ago.)
Gay “gene” may not exist, but this is up to scientific evidence.
Yeah, but a number of his opposers come from the scientific community. Which I think have a bigger weight than your average Joe.Many" is a vague word. “Many” also praised his work, so it goes both ways.
Of course I do. Unlike many, I do not see people in a “black and white” fashion. A good person can do bad things, an evil person can have moments of goodness.
He may be a charlatan, but that does not undermine his willingness to help - or the fact that he helped people with much graver issues than homosexuality.
I am sorry you were nearly abused in your childhood, but this has NOTHING to do with actual homosexuality.are based on FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. My father was physically strong. i was (and still am) a weakling, in other words, a disappointment, and unable to mix. He was impatient. My mother was domineering. More than once,a five-years-older brother sat on top of me, holding both of my arms back with one of his hands, and rocked back and forth, grunting. As a ten year old, i was too naive and stupid to understand what he was practising. So, to repeat, thanks be to God, i wasn’t pushed over the edge. A spirit of defiance, still here, probably helped.
In other words, **HE DID KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, AND MY OWN CLOSE-SHAVE TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE CONFIRMS IT! **
**So, are you able to back up your hostile claims with the same sort of evidence??? **
By extrapolating from my own experience, it’s easy enough to understand the fall into SSA.
We discussed this earlier - it’s one thing to be abused of as a child, in which therapy DOES work - but that’s because you were NOT homosexual to begin with. Sure, you may develop SSA behavior, but it’s not genuine - it’s a way of coping, and that needs to be healed.
And that’s exactly why I was commending Nicolosi - because he helped those who suffered traumas similar to yours get over it . I attacked him because he ALSO had the pretense of curing “natural-born” gay people.
Again, I am sorry for your traumatic past. But (I assume) you’re heterosexual: you were born that way and that way you remain. Even if you had been pushed over the edge, that would not have been actual homosexuality - only trauma induced shock. Thankfully - judging from your words - that did not happen.
“Real” homosexuals are born that way. That is a fact. Childhood abuse has nothing to do with it - it is a common and dangerous misconception. I have a couple non heterosexual friends - their lives have always been normal. No abuse, no “gay propaganda”: they found it out on their own.
Calm down. Nobody here doubts the severity or the importance of your past. It’s understandable, given your backstory, that you are angry at gay people. That, however, does not excuse you from using stereotypes and being offensive. “Omophile” and “propagandist” are both offensive, so I suggest you refrain from using them.Exactly what his many enemies, the homophiles and “LGBTQ etc” propagandists are saying! Apart from that, what peers?
How dare he challenge them!!! He was so infuriatingly politically incorrect!
They hate him because he (among others) helped to turn many SSA sufferers around, rather than mindlessly “accept” and “confirm” them in an unnatural, very unhealthy and life-shortening “lifestyle”.
“Unnatural, Unhealthy, Life Shortening”: these are misconsceptions and stereotypes.
Homosexuality is NOT unnatural: more than 240 animal species presebt homosexual individuals and couples - as a matter of fact, some species (like flamingos, penguins, and monkeys) have exhibited better parenting in same-sex couples rather than regular ones.
Homosexuality is NOT unhealthy - no more than an heterosexual lifestyle. You’re clinging onto the stereotype that all of them are some kind of orgy fanatics. They’re not. They have the same probability of catching sexually transmitted diseases as the rest of us.
AIDS is not inherently tied to homosexuality - everyone, if not careful, can catch it. The world has changed since the 80s - there is much more awareness and hygiene.
Homosexuality does NOT shorten your lifespan: it’s just a myth. Not counting, of course; suicides caused by omophobic harassment.
They don’t hate hin because he cures gay people, they hate him because, in what concerns “actual” homosexuals (and not, I stress once again, trauma - induced sex disorders) he was a charlatan and a pretty prejudiced one at that.
Do you?
It is also what allows those who are not white males to have some form of respect in media.
And what still allows religious people to be respected.
There are times when it gets exaggerated, but still…don’t spit generalization in the plate you eat from.
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Peter_J
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