Keep them at home

[leftistdestroye]

Wait a minute, is all acceptance now “Communist”? How did we get from treating people with respect to calling them communists?

Treating people with respect, allowing more acceptance is happening and communism has nothing to do with it.

No, I have already linked the socialist end of this already. It all is part of breaking down society.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

No, I have already linked the socialist end of this already. It all is part of breaking down society.

No, it is not that simple, the world has moved beyond it. Treating others with respect and equality is not “socialist”. Acceptance of others builds society as we all gain strength from each other. We were born to be a social species. We need each other, united we stand, divided we fall, so we need to unite with each other in society which is called human kindness and love for one another.

 

[leftistdestroye]

NewUlm1976_2000;3669073]

No, it is not that simple, the world has moved beyond it.

Yeah, towards socialism.

Treating others with respect and equality is not “socialist”.

In this instance, it leads to socialism. Other socialist nations are much more open to normalized gay relations. And their governments are larger than ours, with more wealth redistribution.

Acceptance of others builds society as we all gain strength from each other. We were born to be a social species. We need each other, united we stand, divided we fall, so we need to unite with each other in society which is called human kindness and love for one another.

We do not need to accept homosexuality to survive. Our entire history has proved that. Much of the world has proved that. And we are more divided now, because of liberalism, than before. I have nothing to gain of any importance, from accepting homosexuality as part of a normal society.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

NewUlm1976_2000;3669073]
We do not need to accept homosexuality to survive. Our entire history has proved that. I have nothing to gain of any importance, from accepting homosexuality as part of a normal society.

Maybe not yourself personally, but we as a society needs to accept homosexuality exists and find the best ways to integrate them into society. It has been around all of human history and will be with us. They can be themselves and help make society better for all of us.

But in the topic of this thread, it should not be swept under the carpet and thinking that if ignored will go away on its own. Often our preconceptions make things out to be much worse then they actually are. Every one of us struggles with this daily, it is part of what makes us human.

 

[Icarus]

Maybe not yourself personally, but we as a society needs to accept homosexuality exists and find the best ways to integrate them into society. It has been around all of human history and will be with us. They can be themselves and help make society better for all of us.

.

The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.

Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”

Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”

1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Yep. Because it is there to gain accpetance. I can tell a group of gays, that I am Catholic and do not like what they do, and am I to expect respect from them???

I’ve told them “I am Catholic, and I view what you do as a sin. I don’t think you should be persecuted for it, and I agree you have the same rights as everyone else, but I think what you do is wrong.”

I’ve gotten respect from most of them. Not all.

“Institute age-appropriate, factually accurate and inclusive curricula to help students understand and respect difference within the school community and society as a whole.”

And if they achieve this, is it not accpetance?

The Church also accepts them, as it accepts all sinners. Accepting the person is not the same thing as accepting sins they do. If the Church did not accept sinners, none of us would be allowed in.

No, they need to be respected, there are real people here. Even the USCCB says to show respect to people.

These programs of “respect” have allowed more accpetance, and that I do not tolerate.

I don’t think you have much choice.

(Supposed “Communist goals”)
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

Communist nations officially suppressed abstract art and promoted pretty, “realistic” art.

**24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.

1. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.**

Communist nations officially banned even soft-core pornography. One of the funny results was that the US scientists whose base was close to that of the Soviets in Anarctica, had frequent requests for old Playboy magazines.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

Homosexuality was a crime in many Marxist nations.

1. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

Sounds pretty suspicious that Communists would be touting the opinions of the Founders of the US. Looks like someone made up a list of things that upset them, and pretended the Communists wrote it.

Fortunately, students are protected by the Constitution, and can pray and display religious symbols and even carry a Bible into school. An executive order, signed by President Clinton, and re-implemented by President Bush, instructs the Justice Department to intervene in any case where this is not allowed.

 

[leftistdestroye]

NewUlm1976_2000;3669172]

Maybe not yourself personally, but we as a society needs to accept homosexuality exists and find the best ways to integrate them into society. It has been around all of human history and will be with us. They can be themselves and help make society better for all of us.

We do accept that it exists. And they are integrated into society. Hell most of them make more money than I do! lol But there is nothing that says accepting their behavior will make society better.

But in the topic of this thread, it should not be swept under the carpet and thinking that if ignored will go away on its own.

We know that it will not go away. But it does not have to be put on a stage either. It does not benefit society, it worsens it.

 

[Icarus]

The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.

Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”

Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”

1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

 

[leftistdestroye]

The Barbarian;3669198]

I’ve told them “I am Catholic, and I view what you do as a sin. I don’t think you should be persecuted for it, and I agree you have the same rights as everyone else, but I think what you do is wrong.”

What do I do?

I’ve gotten respect from most of them. Not all.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/25/2004374577.jpg

The Church also accepts them, as it accepts all sinners. Accepting the person is not the same thing as accepting sins they do. If the Church did not accept sinners, none of us would be allowed in.

I am not talking about the Church, though. I am talking about society, and their acceptance of it.

I don’t think you have much choice.

The hell I don’t. (not being ******)

Communist nations officially suppressed abstract art and promoted pretty, “realistic” art.

But that was not how it would be done here, in a free, moral nation.(or used to be) until they have made it an immoral nation. That is how it was done in an already Communist nation.

Communist nations officially banned even soft-core pornography. One of the funny results was that the US scientists whose base was close to that of the Soviets in Anarctica, had frequent requests for old Playboy magazines.

Again, that was with a current Communist government. To break a free and moral nation, would require methods of immorality to break down the society that they were used to.

Homosexuality was a crime in many Marxist nations.

Again, it’s all about breaking down a moral, free nation’s society, in order for socialism to come in.

Sounds pretty suspicious that Communists would be touting the opinions of the Founders of the US. Looks like someone made up a list of things that upset them, and pretended the Communists wrote it.

These were predictions made by an ex FBI guy on if it were to happen, it would happen by these means. It’s funny how many college students involved in the social movement of the 60’s, supported Marx.

Fortunately, students are protected by the Constitution, and can pray and display religious symbols and even carry a Bible into school. An executive order, signed by President Clinton, and re-implemented by President Bush, instructs the Justice Department to intervene in any case where this is not allowed.

I wasn’t aware that the Constitution only applied to students. I thought it applied to all people, including teachers. And I am still trying to find the phrase: Seperation of Church and State in the Const, but I can’t.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
I’ve told them “I am Catholic, and I view what you do as a sin. I don’t think you should be persecuted for it, and I agree you have the same rights as everyone else, but I think what you do is wrong.”

What do I do?

Don’t know what you do. All I know, is I get very little argument from most of them when I say what I do.

Barbarian observes:
I’ve gotten respect from most of them. Not all.

The Church also accepts them, as it accepts all sinners. Accepting the person is not the same thing as accepting sins they do. If the Church did not accept sinners, none of us would be allowed in.

I am not talking about the Church, though. I am talking about society, and their acceptance of it.

The Church also teaches that society should not abuse their rights.

(refuses to tolerate laws protecting homosexuals)

Barbarian observes:
I don’t think you have much choice.

The hell I don’t.

Like anyone else who violates the law, you have to be prepared to face the consquences.

Barbarian observes:
Communist nations officially suppressed abstract art and promoted pretty, “realistic” art.

But that was not how it would be done here, in a free, moral nation.(or used to be) until they have made it an immoral nation.

Sounds pretty weird. They want to make us immoral, so they can make us moral? Sorry, not believable.

Barbarian observes:
Communist nations officially banned even soft-core pornography. One of the funny results was that the US scientists whose base was close to that of the Soviets in Anarctica, had frequent requests for old Playboy magazines.

Again, that was with a current Communist government.

All the ones I know about. Name one that wasn’t like this.

Barbarian observes:
Homosexuality was a crime in many Marxist nations.

Again, it’s all about breaking down a moral, free nation’s society, in order for socialism to come in.

No, the Communist party in the US opposed pornography, too. In fact, they followed the Moscow party line.

Barbarian observes:
Sounds pretty suspicious that Communists would be touting the opinions of the Founders of the US. Looks like someone made up a list of things that upset them, and pretended the Communists wrote it.

These were predictions made by an ex FBI guy on if it were to happen, it would happen by these means. It’s funny how many college students involved in the social movement of the 60’s, supported Marx.

Ah, integration. But most of us don’t see equality as being “socialist” or even immoral.

Barbarian observes:
Fortunately, students are protected by the Constitution, and can pray and display religious symbols and even carry a Bible into school. An executive order, signed by President Clinton, and re-implemented by President Bush, instructs the Justice Department to intervene in any case where this is not allowed.

I wasn’t aware that the Constitution only applied to students. I thought it applied to all people, including teachers.

Of course it applies to teachers. So, if they are agents of the government, they are prohibited from espousing any religious beliefs in their jobs. It’s in the Bill of Rights. At the same time, they keep all their freedoms as individuals. That’s how it should be.

And I am still trying to find the phrase: Seperation of Church and State in the Const, but I can’t.

That was Jefferson’s (whose Virginia Statutes were the model for the Bill of Rights) interpretation of the Constitution. He should know. However, the First Amendment clearly prohibits restriction of religion as well as any governmental endorsement of religion.

 

[Icarus]

This Passage from Romans could be of help.

The law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, "You must not covet. But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.

So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.* I want to do what is right, but I can’t. I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. I love God’s law with all my heart. But there is another power* within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power* of the life-giving Spirit has freed you* from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature.* So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.
But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life* because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
Therefore, dear brothers and sisters,* you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature,* you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children* of God.
So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children.* Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

next page for conclusion>

 

[Icarus]

conclusion:

Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children,* including the new bodies he has promised us. We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope* for it. But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)
And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers* in harmony with God’s own will. And we know that God causes everything to work together* for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn* among many brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.

What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? If God is for us, who can ever be against us? Since he did not spare even his own Son but gave him up for us all, won’t he also give us everything else? Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one—for God himself has given us right standing with himself. Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.
Can anything ever separate us from Christ’s love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? (As the Scriptures say, “For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.”) No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.
And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,* neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[The_Barbarian]

If you really believe this, and try to live it, why are you so unwilling to let God do it His way?

 

[Icarus]

If you really believe this, and try to live it, why are you so unwilling to let God do it His way?

I do believe it

And I do try very hard… (and the more I try - the stronger the spirit grows and the shorter the fall lasts)

read it again.

It’s good isn’t it?

 

[leftistdestroye]

The Barbarian;3669404

Don’t know what you do. All I know, is I get very little argument from most of them when I say what I do.

No, you said that what I do is wrong. I am asking, what do I do that is wrong?

Barbarian observes:
I’ve gotten respect from most of them. Not all.

The Church also teaches that society should not abuse their rights.

(refuses to tolerate laws protecting homosexuals)

I’m not following you here. Can you expand a little please?

Like anyone else who violates the law, you have to be prepared to face the consquences.

Then I will face the law for defending what is right.

All the ones I know about. Name one that wasn’t like this.

??? I am not contesting this. I am saying that a current communist government may very well ban porn, but we are not a communist nation. But if we wanted to disrupt a generally moral society, like we used to have, then we would begin by breaking up the norms and replacing them with non norms.

Sounds pretty weird. They want to make us immoral, so they can make us moral? Sorry, not believable.

See reply above.

Homosexuality was a crime in many Marxist nations.

Then why is homosexuality promoted by the left(marxists) today?

Ah, integration. But most of us don’t see equality as being “socialist” or even immoral.

Again, It’s funny how many college students involved in the social movement of the 60’s, supported Marx. Marx wanted equality too.

Of course it applies to teachers. So, if they are agents of the government, they are prohibited from espousing any religious beliefs in their jobs. It’s in the Bill of Rights. At the same time, they keep all their freedoms as individuals. That’s how it should be.

Oh, how it should be. Well, there it is. And i’m sorry, but it is not in the Bill of Rights. What is in the Bill of Rights, is that CONGRESS shall pass now law respecting an establishment of religion. No where does it mention an agent of the government. And teachers are not policy makers, they are simply employed by the government. They used to be able to say a prayer in class, but if it was so evident, why was it ever allowed in the past?

That was Jefferson’s (whose Virginia Statutes were the model for the Bill of Rights) interpretation of the Constitution. He should know. However, the First Amendment clearly prohibits restriction of religion as well as any governmental endorsement of religion.

The Bill of Rights are almost a mirror image of the English Bill of Rights from 1689, and George Masons Virginia Declaration of Rights. It was proposed by James Madison. But one single teacher, does not represent the governmnet. She has no power of policy, she cannot vote, she cannot levy a tax. She is a private citizen. If she wishes to say a prayer in class, then she has every right to, so say the Constitution.

 

[mysitar]

I was not drawing a comparrison to gays and firemen. The point was that as Catholics, how does it help the sinner OR be against the sin, if we condone their behavior by not speaking out against it?

Are you Catholic? If so, it is our obligation to remind people sin, who are about to sin. Why is it ok for them push acceptance in schools and such?

I am Catholic, but I attend a public school. You can’t impose your religion on people at public school.Besides, do you think they’d really care (i know my friends don’t)?

 

[mysitar]

well, regardless what anyone beleives we should do here, I found this on the Life Teen website. I think we should all take a moment to read:

Q: My friend is gay, is he going to Hell? There was a group at school that said you would.

There is nothing sinful in simply having a particular sexual orientation, contrary to what some very judgmental groups may say. The Church teaches that the sin isn’t in the orientation, but in the act. Let me explain it like this. Now, we believe that sexual intimacy outside of marriage is sinful, right? Right. Well, that goes for a person whether they’re homosexual or heterosexual. We ask a person to remain chaste no matter whom they feel attracted to.

I mentioned the “judgmental groups” earlier; let me say something about that as well. There are a lot of people in the world who speak out against subjects, like homosexuality, with absolutely no Christian love in their hearts. Rather than listen to angry, ignorant or misguided people, take a minute and read what the Holy Father has written about how we are to reach out in compassion and bring the love of Christ to everyone regardless of their sexual orientation

Answered by Fr. J on the Life teen website

 

[leftistdestroye]

I am Catholic, but I attend a public school. You can’t impose your religion on people at public school.Besides, do you think they’d really care (i know my friends don’t)?

I wasn’t refering to imposing religion on people at a public school. I was refering to imposing the acceptance of gay behavior in public schools

 

[leftistdestroye]

well, regardless what anyone beleives we should do here, I found this on the Life Teen website. I think we should all take a moment to read:

Q: My friend is gay, is he going to Hell? There was a group at school that said you would.

There is nothing sinful in simply having a particular sexual orientation, contrary to what some very judgmental groups may say. The Church teaches that the sin isn’t in the orientation, but in the act. Let me explain it like this. Now, we believe that sexual intimacy outside of marriage is sinful, right? Right. Well, that goes for a person whether they’re homosexual or heterosexual. We ask a person to remain chaste no matter whom they feel attracted to.

I mentioned the “judgmental groups” earlier; let me say something about that as well. There are a lot of people in the world who speak out against subjects, like homosexuality, with absolutely no Christian love in their hearts. Rather than listen to angry, ignorant or misguided people, take a minute and read what the Holy Father has written about how we are to reach out in compassion and bring the love of Christ to everyone regardless of their sexual orientation

Answered by Fr. J on the Life teen website

I am telling you, that in this day and age, that breeds acceptance. If they were not out pushing their agenda, then I’d say reach out to them. We are hated by many gays, and I have had no part in the Church’s position on gays/gay marriage. I am a new Catholic. But I am telling you, playing niceynice will end up granting gay marriage and acceptance. I am telling you! We will continue to pick and choose God’s word, if we keep this up, and our religion will end up like some sort of pagan nonsense. Mark my words.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Don’t know what you do. All I know, is I get very little argument from most of them when I say what I do.

No, you said that what I do is wrong. I am asking, what do I do that is wrong?

What did I say is wrong that you do?

Barbarian observes:
The Church also teaches that society should not abuse their rights.

Barbarian regarding laws protecting all citizens:
Like anyone else who violates the law, you have to be prepared to face the consquences.

(mention that communist governments generally are harder on porn and homosexuality)

I am not contesting this. I am saying that a current communist government may very well ban porn, but we are not a communist nation.

Right. We have the freedom to do as we want, as long as we don’t bother others. They don’t.

But if we wanted to disrupt a generally moral society, like we used to have, then we would begin by breaking up the norms and replacing them with non norms.

Barbarian observes:
Sounds pretty weird. They want to make us immoral, so they can make us moral? Sorry, not believable.

Barbarian observes:
Homosexuality was a crime in many Marxist nations.

Then why is homosexuality promoted by the left(marxists) today?

Apparently, it isn’t. China, North Korea, and Vietnam either frown on it, or Criminalize it.

Read this about Cuba:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba

Some leftists might be like that, but leftists and Marxists are often at odds, particularly in individual rights.

Barbarian on conservatives opposing equality:
Ah, integration. But most of us don’t see equality as being “socialist” or even immoral.

Again, It’s funny how many college students involved in the social movement of the 60’s, supported Marx. Marx wanted equality too.

He was in favor of education and cleanliness also. I hope you aren’t automatically against everything he liked.

Barbarian observes:
Of course it applies to teachers. So, if they are agents of the government, they are prohibited from espousing any religious beliefs in their jobs. It’s in the Bill of Rights. At the same time, they keep all their freedoms as individuals. That’s how it should be.

Oh, how it should be.

Well, there it is. And i’m sorry, but it is not in the Bill of Rights. What is in the Bill of Rights, is that CONGRESS shall pass now law respecting an establishment of religion. No where does it mention an agent of the government.

Amendment XIV applied the protections in the Bill of Rights to the states and all jurisdictions under them. So yes, it does say that.

And teachers are not policy makers, they are simply employed by the government.

Doesn’t matter. No agent of the state can prescribe religion in any way. The state can neither impose religion, nor delegate that power to any other person.

They used to be able to say a prayer in class, but if it was so evident, why was it ever allowed in the past?

Police used to torture people to get them to confess. Why did we do that? Because we haven’t always obeyed the law. The fact that we didn’t obey the law in the past is not license to continue to do it.

Barbarian observes:
That was Jefferson’s (whose Virginia Statutes were the model for the Bill of Rights) interpretation of the Constitution. He should know. However, the First Amendment clearly prohibits restriction of religion as well as any governmental endorsement of religion.

The Bill of Rights are almost a mirror image of the English Bill of Rights from 1689, and George Masons Virginia Declaration of Rights. It was proposed by James Madison. But one single teacher, does not represent the governmnet.

Sure does. And the courts have always so ruled. Any agent of the government represents the government.

She is a private citizen.

In her private life. In her public school class, she is the agent of the government, and subject to the same restrictions.

If she wishes to say a prayer in class, then she has every right to, so say the Constitution.

Sorry, that’s wrong. She can say it quietly to herself, but she cannot do it in front of her class. That is the law.

And that is how it should be.