Keep you pre-schooler in a 5 point harness carseat!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Serap
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah, I never let my kids eat in the car. Not worth the risk or the mess!

However, I have never kept my kids in a 5 point harness that long. As I said in another post, my almost 5 year old is in a booster seat, and has been for awhile now and does just fine. I can’t imagine having him rear facing still.

But I have to start to wonder about the companies and their extensive research…could it be they just want you to keep buying carseats?
I for one don’t put a whole lot of trust in our government to tell me anything to do with my kids. And yes, it comes down to common sense and my common sense tells me that my 11 year old doesn’t need a 5 point harness! Really my mother-in-law should still be using a carseat because of her height and weight!🤷
Yeah, I agree…your 11 yr old doesn’t need a 5 point harness. I do believe though that a pre-schooler needs a 5 point harness and even up to 5.5 years old would be ideal…

My DD will be 40 lbs probably when she turns 4, but I personally think that 4 would be a bit young for her as she falls asleep in the car all the time.
 
Really my mother-in-law should still be using a carseat because of her height and weight!🤷
Though the guidelines are mostly stated by height and/or weight, the biggest thing is age, because of spinal development. An adult who doesn’t or barely meets the height and weight requirements is much better suited to withstanding a car accident forward facing with a regular seatbelt then a child of a similar height and weight. Height and weight are convenient measurements of development, but are not entirely accurate. Age is not entirely accurate either, because every child develops at different rates.

So, yes, you must use common sense, and you should consider an age-weight-height combination when deciding which is the safest/best seat for your child.
 
Please look at this and tell me if you still think a 4 or 5 year old is safe in a booster seat…shocking video…

youtube.com/watch?v=V2kO8AxKbrM

Now I’m thinking I’ll keep DD in her Frontier until she outgrows it and I’ll buy my son one too in a couple of years.

$300 each is a small price to pay after seeing this video :eek:
 
Please look at this and tell me if you still think a 4 or 5 year old is safe in a booster seat…shocking video…

youtube.com/watch?v=V2kO8AxKbrM

Now I’m thinking I’ll keep DD in her Frontier until she outgrows it and I’ll buy my son one too in a couple of years.

$300 each is a small price to pay after seeing this video :eek:
Why is this a “shocking” video? Would we expect anything less to happen to an adult? The child did not fly out of the seat. Is there medical evidence to show that a 5-year-old’s spine could not handle this kind of a crash? I’ve seen kids younger than that fall down stairs, topple forward in high chairs, and jump off tall fences… and get up and keep going without any major injury.

Also, many of us* don’t have *$300 per child to fork over for a carseat (which will conveniently expire in six years or so). So “small price to pay” is a relative term.
 
Why is this a “shocking” video? Would we expect anything less to happen to an adult? The child did not fly out of the seat. Is there medical evidence to show that a 5-year-old’s spine could not handle this kind of a crash? I’ve seen kids younger than that fall down stairs, topple forward in high chairs, and jump off tall fences… and get up and keep going without any major injury.

Also, many of us* don’t have *$300 per child to fork over for a carseat (which will conveniently expire in six years or so). So “small price to pay” is a relative term.
I 100% disagree with you. This child had definite injuries. His body was twisted and spine was forced violently to bend out of shape. The child in the 5 point harness remained stable and was not violently pushed around.

Did either of them die? No, but I am putting money that the one in the booster was in physiotherapy for a while.

I don’t have $300 handy either. I will have to pay it off bit by bit each month on my Visa card. I think it’s a small price to pay IMO…but I’m the mother of my kids, not anyone elses.

**Edited to add: ** I’m guessing that the dummy in the booster was about 5 years old, so the body weight would have been less than 80 lbs. This is less than any adult of the same height.
 
I 100% disagree with you. This child had definite injuries. His body was twisted and spine was forced violently to bend out of shape. The child in the 5 point harness remained stable and was not violently pushed around.

Did either of them die? No, but I am putting money that the one in the booster was in physiotherapy for a while.

I don’t have $300 handy either. I will have to pay it off bit by bit each month on my Visa card. I think it’s a small price to pay IMO…but I’m the mother of my kids, not anyone elses.

**Edited to add: ** I’m guessing that the dummy in the booster was about 5 years old, so the body weight would have been less than 80 lbs. This is less than any adult of the same height.
I just don’t see that. What I do see is that the test car doesn’t have working seatbelts. If the belt had worked properly, it wouldn’t have given the way it did. The belts in my Dodge minivan always lock up if you so much as pull on them too quickly. Meaning, my 5- and 7-year-old would be locked into place the way that 5-point kid was (who, by the way, is incredibly hard to see in the video).

So again, IMHO, this is a false test. Anybody have a video of a kid in a Dodge? :rolleyes:
 
I just don’t see that. What I do see is that the test car doesn’t have working seatbelts. If the belt had worked properly, it wouldn’t have given the way it did. The belts in my Dodge minivan always lock up if you so much as pull on them too quickly. Meaning, my 5- and 7-year-old would be locked into place the way that 5-point kid was (who, by the way, is incredibly hard to see in the video).

So again, IMHO, this is a false test. Anybody have a video of a kid in a Dodge? :rolleyes:
So if your young child is turned sideways talking to his/her sister, you get the idea of what will happen. However, if the child is talking to his/her sister in a 5 point harness, the result would be the same.

I don’t understand why parents fail to see the importance of maximizing their child’s safety 🤷 Am I missing something here?

I also drive a Dodge Minivan and if someone is turned sideways or has yanked on the chest strap (which kids will do), then it doesn’t matter what car you’re driving.

Dodge Minivans have not scored more than adequate in their crash tests. It’s the Honda Odessey that has scored the best for mini-van safety. Since Dodge Minivan is on the low end of the safety scale, I would say that the seatbelts are also as adequate as all other vehicles.
 
So if your young child is turned sideways talking to his/her sister, you get the idea of what will happen. However, if the child is talking to his/her sister in a 5 point harness, the result would be the same.

I don’t understand why parents fail to see the importance of maximizing their child’s safety 🤷 Am I missing something here?

I also drive a Dodge Minivan and if someone is turned sideways or has yanked on the chest strap (which kids will do), then it doesn’t matter what car you’re driving.

Dodge Minivans have not scored more than adequate in their crash tests. It’s the Honda Odessey that has scored the best for mini-van safety. Since Dodge Minivan is on the low end of the safety scale, I would say that the seatbelts are also as adequate as all other vehicles.
Um, first off, that was insulting. “Maximizing” is a relative term. Why would you drive a Dodge van if you didn’t believe it was the safest? By your own argument, you’re not maximizing safety. I’m sure if we all forked over 80 grand we could put our kids in Hummers. Those look pretty safe. Do you ever drive your kids at night or in the rain? Talk to anyone while you drive (on the phone or not)? Eat or drink something? Drive when you’re tired or not in a good mood? Listen to the radio? If so, then “why don’t you see the importance of maximizing your kids’ safety?” 🤷

Secondly, I don’t know where you’re getting your crash safety ratings. When we bought this van in '08, it scored very high. Oh, and we could afford it. But I suppose that might be bad parenting?
 
So if your young child is turned sideways talking to his/her sister, you get the idea of what will happen. However, if the child is talking to his/her sister in a 5 point harness, the result would be the same.

I don’t understand why parents fail to see the importance of maximizing their child’s safety 🤷 Am I missing something here?

I also drive a Dodge Minivan and if someone is turned sideways or has yanked on the chest strap (which kids will do), then it doesn’t matter what car you’re driving.

Dodge Minivans have not scored more than adequate in their crash tests. It’s the Honda Odessey that has scored the best for mini-van safety. Since Dodge Minivan is on the low end of the safety scale, I would say that the seatbelts are also as adequate as all other vehicles.
Cool, then my poor kid in a booster seat is really safe because we have an Odessey…See I am concerned about their safety! Good, HAPPYmommy!
 
I think every parent wants to keep their child safe. The problem is that there is a real cost to safety, and that cost is not entirely in the form of dollars. At some point, safety innovations have diminishing returns, for ever increasing costs.

Someone invariably points to a study or crash test that shows how a child of a particular size, in a particular vehicle, at a particular speed, involved in a particular type of impact could have survived a crash if only a certain type of car seat had been used properly. The question then becomes, how could you NOT spend $X to save your child’s life? Wouldn’t you pay every last dollar you have to save your child?

Of course a parent would. The problem is that not all crashes are the same, and crashes do not happen to an individual every day, or even every year or decade. There are real costs incurred, in the form of convenience, and comfort (which I just know someone will tell me have no value when compared to safety). I want to keep my kids safe - absolutely! I know, however, that I cannot ever be 100% certain of safety. There are just too many variables, and we cannot study every circumstance. There are some crashes where survival is better if no seatbelts are worn at all! (I always wear a seat belt, and so do my children, so please don’t go there.) The best I can do is take reasonable precautions to ensure safety, without hampering quality of life.

Take rear facing seats, for example. Some children (and adults too, for that matter) suffer from severe motion sickness. The experience of motion sickness is made markedly worse when facing any direction other than forwards (trust me on this one, I have been car sick too many times to count). A parent will need to weigh the cost of increased nausea and vomiting for their child against the safety improvements gained from an additional year (or two or three) of rear facing seat use. If your child does not suffer from motion sickness, then this will likely be a non-issue. If your child does suffer from motion sickness, the thought of subjecting your child to an extra year (or two or three) of vomiting and discomfort may not seem worth the potential benefit. Each parent will need to decide.

If we are really so concerned about safety, perhaps we should all wear helmets, all the time. After all, our heads are extremely vulnerable, and there are many ways injury can occur. Walking on the beach in a tropical setting, for instance carries a risk of death. Did you know that people die from coconuts falling on their heads? Lets all wear helmets on the beach!

I can extend this thinking to my cats. I recently had three cats, who were feral at birth, born in our barn. I only have two now. If I had not allowed them to go outside, I would undoubtedly still have the third cat. I am not sorry I allow the cats to go outside during the day. My cat may have lived a longer life, but he would have been miserable. A life of confinement for a previously wild animal is no life at all. It is a tragedy.

Please, lets everyone choose the best safety measures they can for their own family, and do not condemn those who are unwilling to pay the extra cost you feel is justified. It may be justified for you, but it is not acceptable to another. That doesn’t mean that other person is a bad person, or reckless. They have just come to a different conclusion than you.

There’s my :twocents:
 
I think every parent wants to keep their child safe. The problem is that there is a real cost to safety, and that cost is not entirely in the form of dollars. At some point, safety innovations have diminishing returns, for ever increasing costs.

Someone invariably points to a study or crash test that shows how a child of a particular size, in a particular vehicle, at a particular speed, involved in a particular type of impact could have survived a crash if only a certain type of car seat had been used properly. The question then becomes, how could you NOT spend $X to save your child’s life? Wouldn’t you pay every last dollar you have to save your child?

Of course a parent would. The problem is that not all crashes are the same, and crashes do not happen to an individual every day, or even every year or decade. There are real costs incurred, in the form of convenience, and comfort (which I just know someone will tell me have no value when compared to safety). I want to keep my kids safe - absolutely! I know, however, that I cannot ever be 100% certain of safety. There are just too many variables, and we cannot study every circumstance. There are some crashes where survival is better if no seatbelts are worn at all! (I always wear a seat belt, and so do my children, so please don’t go there.) The best I can do is take reasonable precautions to ensure safety, without hampering quality of life.

Take rear facing seats, for example. Some children (and adults too, for that matter) suffer from severe motion sickness. The experience of motion sickness is made markedly worse when facing any direction other than forwards (trust me on this one, I have been car sick too many times to count). A parent will need to weigh the cost of increased nausea and vomiting for their child against the safety improvements gained from an additional year (or two or three) of rear facing seat use. If your child does not suffer from motion sickness, then this will likely be a non-issue. If your child does suffer from motion sickness, the thought of subjecting your child to an extra year (or two or three) of vomiting and discomfort may not seem worth the potential benefit. Each parent will need to decide.

If we are really so concerned about safety, perhaps we should all wear helmets, all the time. After all, our heads are extremely vulnerable, and there are many ways injury can occur. Walking on the beach in a tropical setting, for instance carries a risk of death. Did you know that people die from coconuts falling on their heads? Lets all wear helmets on the beach!

I can extend this thinking to my cats. I recently had three cats, who were feral at birth, born in our barn. I only have two now. If I had not allowed them to go outside, I would undoubtedly still have the third cat. I am not sorry I allow the cats to go outside during the day. My cat may have lived a longer life, but he would have been miserable. A life of confinement for a previously wild animal is no life at all. It is a tragedy.

Please, lets everyone choose the best safety measures they can for their own family, and do not condemn those who are unwilling to pay the extra cost you feel is justified. It may be justified for you, but it is not acceptable to another. That doesn’t mean that other person is a bad person, or reckless. They have just come to a different conclusion than you.

There’s my :twocents:
Thank you! My daughters both suffer from motion sickness. DD#1 can’t read or play in the car. Must sit looking straight ahead, even on short trips.

My son fell earlier and hit his head off the table. I guess we shouldn’t have any tables in the house.

DS#1 fell at a friends house last year and split his lip open, he has a scar above his lip now. What was he doing? Coming up their basement stairs. I guess face masks are now in order.

Sometimes life just stinks and people we love get hurt. It’s not because we don’t want to keep them safe, but because that’s how life is sometimes.
I mentioned in my first post about my cousin and her little girl that were thrown from their car. In a rush neither of them buckled…neither did her son, he’s alive today. However, the truck they hit had 4 people in it. 3 of the people died, one in the front seat, two in the back…all had seatbelts on. It’s a risk everyday to get into the car, to cross the street, to walk down the stairs ( to walk through a living room full of toys:)) There are no guarantees in life.
 
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread and if you all don’t mind I would like to go post by post and help clear up a few things! 😉
 
Thank you! My daughters both suffer from motion sickness. DD#1 can’t read or play in the car. Must sit looking straight ahead, even on short trips.

My son fell earlier and hit his head off the table. I guess we shouldn’t have any tables in the house.

DS#1 fell at a friends house last year and split his lip open, he has a scar above his lip now. What was he doing? Coming up their basement stairs. I guess face masks are now in order.

Sometimes life just stinks and people we love get hurt. It’s not because we don’t want to keep them safe, but because that’s how life is sometimes.
I mentioned in my first post about my cousin and her little girl that were thrown from their car. In a rush neither of them buckled…neither did her son, he’s alive today. However, the truck they hit had 4 people in it. 3 of the people died, one in the front seat, two in the back…all had seatbelts on. It’s a risk everyday to get into the car, to cross the street, to walk down the stairs ( to walk through a living room full of toys:)) There are no guarantees in life.
Very good posts, EEgirl and happymommy. I have a story to add to that:

My first pregnancy was a model pregnancy. Ideal prenatal care, no risks, no complications, perfect ultrasound, good health for mother and baby. We took Lamaze classes. We delivered in one of the top teaching hospitals in the nation, with the head of Obstetrics and Gynecology as our doctor. We had fetal monitoring, through the whole thing.

Many parents agree this is the safest scenario for having a baby. I certainly thought so. However…

My daughter, while monitored and delivered by supposedly one of the best and most qualified physicians there are, was born severely brain injured due to loss of oxygen and circulation. Complications toward the end of labor. Forceps delivery. She is now seven years old, drinking from a bottle, wearing diapers, drools constantly, cannot use her hands, and will be dependent upon us for the rest of her life.

The very best precautions do not equal no bad things happening to our kids. We entrust them to their guardian angels, we pray for them, and we take the best reasonable precautions. Whatever happens then is in God’s hands.

Peace of Christ,

Mary
 
After doing some research and discussing with moms on CAF, I came across this very horrible story of a 3 year old who was thrown from his booster seat in a car accident.

I want to spread this news around to as many people as possible.

associatedcontent.com/article/144866/family_tragedy_promotes_need_for_5point.html?cat=25
Unfortunately, in David Kyle Miller’s case, the seatbelt failed completely. It had nothing to do with his being in a booster. If he had been in a higher weight car seat (which needs to be installed with a seat belt rather than LATCH once the child reaches 40 pounds), the seatbelt still would have failed and his car seat, with him in it, would have been ejected.
 
Yup, here in Canada they’re promoting the use of rear-facing as well until your child outgrows the limits of rear facing, not just when they turn 1. That is why I got a 3-in-1 that can support a bigger and heavier child rear facing, and keep it rear-facing until its time to face forward. Then keep it at stage 2 until again the child outgrows it before going to stage 3. Not just because a child gets older means he/she is big enough for the next level. Every child is different. I think the limits should always be height and weight, and age is to be considered only last.
Three in ones, as stated in a different thread, do not support bigger children, only heavier children. They have very short harness heights.

They cannot hold a newborn (even though they state 5 pounds and up) because the lowest harness slot isn’t low enough, they cannot hold a very old child since the highest harness height isn’t high enough, and they make one of the most awful, unsafe boosters on the market.

A rear facing child needs the harness at or below their shoulders, and a forward facing child needs the harness at or above their shoulders, and because of this the 3-in-1s don’t accommodate very young or very old children well, or for very long.
 
Rear-facing seats may be safer Europe. They don’t SUV’s like we do here, and there large cars have less “nose”. If you have a small car a rear-facing toddler or preschooler is very close to the back glass of the a small car. With so many larger cars on the road this IS a danger. They also drive at MUCH higher speeds than we do in America. There’s lots of variables.
It’s not that the rear facing seats in Europe are safer, but that rear facing in and of itself is safer. We’d ALL be safer rear facing! The most common types of accidents are head on collisions and side impact collisions, and in both of these the rear facing person is safer. In rear ending collisions, usually the speed of impact is much smaller than a full speed head-on collision.

Children are encouraged to rear face as long as possible because their head is much larger and heavier in proportion to their bodies (unlike an older child or adult’s), and the spinal cord can only stretch ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH before the spinal column ruptures. That is called internal decapitation.

You said “You can’t do everything,” but really, it’s very easy to keep a child this much safer, since it involves doing nothing.
 
Um, first off, that was insulting. “Maximizing” is a relative term. Why would you drive a Dodge van if you didn’t believe it was the safest? By your own argument, you’re not maximizing safety. I’m sure if we all forked over 80 grand we could put our kids in Hummers. Those look pretty safe. Do you ever drive your kids at night or in the rain? Talk to anyone while you drive (on the phone or not)? Eat or drink something? Drive when you’re tired or not in a good mood? Listen to the radio? If so, then “why don’t you see the importance of maximizing your kids’ safety?” 🤷

Secondly, I don’t know where you’re getting your crash safety ratings. When we bought this van in '08, it scored very high. Oh, and we could afford it. But I suppose that might be bad parenting?
:confused:
 
Which carseat did you go with and why? I am looking for a new seat for my DD who’s turning 4 this August. She is currently 16 inches sitting height and weighs 36.5 lbs.
Would not get a Radian since the uppermost harness slot is 17 inches, and you’ll lose a bit of that when you install it. If she’s really at 16", then it won’t last her long. Though TECHNICALLY Radians are the only seats on the market that allow a child to be in harness mode one inch OVER the top harness slot, most techs don’t encourage it, and I wouldn’t be comfortable doing it (could cause spinal compression in an accident).
The issue I have currently with Graco Nautilus is that it has not had extensive side impact crash testing. I am not leaning towards it for this reason. It also does not have true side impact protection built into it when compared to the other 2.
Side impact protection essentially means that the seat has shock absorbing foam in the side of the seat. True side impact protection (a term coined by and I believe, used exclusively by Britax), means that the child’s head should stay within the confines of the seat and not hit the interior of the vehicle. Most all seats with head wings, then, have this feature, Nautilus included. The only problem with this is that the child needs to have his or her head within the confines of the seat during a collision for there to be any benefit.
I have read that the Radian doesn’t have the head support for sleeping that the Frontier has, so it’s not as comfortable.
My kids actually slept better in their Radians than in the Nauti! The wings tend to create a tiny hump in the head area that pushes out the head a bit.
The Frontier sits very high…I keep banging my DD’s head when I put her in her current Britax Marathon. But, the Frontier has had extensive side impact testing since Britax has a comprehensive testing facility that Radian and Graco don’t have. The only issue though, is that all testing is done by the manufacturer and is not standardized by the governement.
Exactly. Side impact testing is not a standard test so what the companies are actually testing, we have no idea, nor do we know the results of that testing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top