Keeping Other Pre-Vatican II Traditions

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Yes,… if you did so intentionally, made no other act of penance as is allowed these days and had no mental incapacity that prevented you from the obliged action.
 
totustuus2345 said:
So if I fail to abstain from meat this Friday and forget to do another penance I will be serious of mortal sin and I would not be able to receive the Eucharist at Saturday Morning Mass?
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Paul VI in his Apostolic Constitution Paenitemini, and the Code of Canon Law both say that penance (including following the fasting laws) is a matter of divine law.

To quote Canon Law:
**
Can. 1249 All Christ’s faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.

Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety. **

The Church seems to say that following the fasting laws of the Church is a matter of divine law. That would certainly make failing to follow the fasting laws grave matter.

James
 
totustuus, you are a teenager (although past the age where you would be bound to abstain); you are also an altar boy.

Serving Mass on Friday would certainly, I believe, fulfill the obligation to engage in a work of piety and prayer.

But, if you consider yourself a devout Catholic why don’t you begin now to abstain from eating meat on Friday.

Think of how happy you would make the Dear Lord and the Grace you will obtain.:blessyou:
 
mullenpm said:
totustuus, you are a teenager (although past the age where you would be bound to abstain); you are also an altar boy.

Serving Mass on Friday would certainly, I believe, fulfill the obligation to engage in a work of piety and prayer.

But, if you consider yourself a devout Catholic why don’t you begin now to abstain from eating meat on Friday.

Think of how happy you would make the Dear Lord and the Grace you will obtain.:blessyou:
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I do abstain, I only didn’t realise that It is bound under punishment of serious sin.
 
What country are you from? Because the Episicopal Conference of the different countries can set their own guidelines based upon the Universal Church’s norms. In the United States the Catholic bishops issued the following pastoral letter:

]PASTORAL STATEMENT ON PENANCE AND ABSTINENCE - November 18, 1966
“Christ Died for Our Salvation on Friday”
19. Changing circumstances, including economic, dietary, and social elements, have made some of our people feel that the renunciation of the eating of meat is not always and for everyone the most effective means of practicing penance. Meat was once an exceptional form of food: now it is commonplace.
  1. Accordingly, since the spirit of penance primarily suggests that we discipline ourselves in that which we enjoy most, to many in our day abstinence from meat no longer implies penance, while renunciation of other things would be more penitential.
  2. For these and related reasons, the Catholic bishops of the United States, far from downgrading the traditional pentinential observance of Friday, and motivated precisely by the desire to give the spirit of penance greater vitality, especially on Fridays, the day that Jesus died, urge our Catholic people henceforth to be guided by the following norms.
  3. Friday itself remains a special day of pentinential observance throughtout the year, a time when those who seek perfection will be mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are called upon to help expiate in union with Christ Crucified.
  4. Friday should be in each week something of what Lent is in the entire year. For this reason we urge all to prepare for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday by *freely *making of every Friday a day of self-denial and mortificiation in prayerful remembrance of the passion of Jesus Christ.
    **
  5. Among the works of voluntaryself-denial and personal penance which we especially commend to our people for the future observance of Friday, even though we hereby *terminate the traditional law of abstinence binding under pain of sin,*as the sole prescribed means of observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat.
    We do so in the hope that the Catholic community will ordinarily continue to abstain from meat by free choice as formerly we did in obedience to Church law. Our expectation is based on the following considerations:
    a. We shall thus freely and out of love for Christ Crucified show our solidarity with the generations of believers to whom this practice frequently became, especially in times of persecution and of great poverty, no mean evidence of fidelity to Christ and His Church.
    b. We shall thus also remind ourselves that as Christians, although immersed in this world and sharing its life, we must preserve a saving and necessary difference from the spirit of the world. Our deliberate, personal abstinence from meat, more especially because *no longer required by law,*will be an outward sign of inward spiritual values that we cherish.
  6. Every Catholic Christian understands that the fast and abstinence regulations admit of change, unlike the commandments and precepts of that unchanging divine moral law which the the church must today and always defend as immutable. That said, we emphasize that our people are henceforth *free from the obligation traditionally binding under pain of sin in what pertains to Friday observance, expect as noted above for Lent.*We stress this so that “no” scrupulosity will enter into examinations of conscience, confessions, or personal decisions on this point.
  7. Perhaps we should warn that those who decide to keep the Friday abstinence for reasons of personal piety and special love that they *may not pass judgment on tnhose who elect to substitute other pentinential observances.*Friday, please God will acquire among us other forms of pentinential witness which may become as much a part of the devout way of life in the the as Friday abstinence from meat…
  8. It would bring great glory to God and good to souls if Fridays found our people doing volunteer work in hospitals, visiting the sick, serving the needs of the aged and the lonely, instructing the young in the Faith, participating as Christians in community affairs, and meeting our obligations to our families, our friends, our neighbors, and our community including our parishes, with a special zeal born of the desire to add merit of penance to the other virtues exercised in good works born of living faith.
  9. In summary, let it not be said that by this action, implementing the spirit of renewal coming out of the Council, we have abolished Friday, repudiated the holy traditions of our fathers, or diminished the insistence of the Church on the fact of sin and the need for penance. Rather, let it be proved by the spirit in which we enter upon prayer and penance, not excluding fast and abstinence freely chosen, that these present decisions and recommendations of this conference of bishops will herald a new birth of loving faith and more profound pentinential conversion, by both of which we become one with Christ, mature sons of God, and servants of God’s people.
Finally I’m done. I don’t type as fast as others. Sorry
 
And? Pastoral letters especially those of the USCCB do not Church Law make. And even this hard examination of it does not make an ironclad case because the examiner is not in a position to do so as he himself admits when he admits he could be wrong in his reading.
jimmyakin.org/2004/07/more_on_friday_.html

Stop looking for excuses to give God the least you can give. Like everything else that comes from the USCCB it is riddled with ambiguity and marginal Catholicism. That is why more and more Catholics stay with the tried and true and abstain from the meat. The narrow gate, ya know?

I don’t know about anybody else but I have difficulty in doing anything else penitentially that is even close to the satisfaction I take in abstaining from meat. It is not so commonplace as we are led to believe. And it never fails that events take place or company comes on a Friday. How sweet it is to be able to abstain even under those circumstances.

The Church has always known what is most beneficial to souls and pleasing to God. Up until Vatican II that is.
 
the canon law of 1917, according to 6 of canon law 1983, was in full force and effect until the it was promulgated, there-fore, the days of fast and/or of abstinence should have been the norm.
how-ever, with that in mind, what affect violations of the 1917 code have on clergy is the basis for much debate, even within the n.c.c.b. have a good year. (alih)👍
 
I’m not a 1962 Missal Thumpin’ Traditionalist, but I think that maybe this all could be avoided by returning to the Traditional Calendar. We could add the new Saints to the calendar and there would be no confusion. And, everyone would have to abstain on every Friday, throughout Lent, and on the Ember Days.
 
Oh, yes it’s true that Protestantism has crept into the Church by falsly saying saying that we humans are so evil, terrible, dirty, sinful, rotten that God won’t forgive us. Why do people have to put God into a box? Why do people have to be Neo-Pharisees? You know the ones (epecially in Jesus’ time) ordinary human beings who thought they were the only ones who could make the laws and interpet them as well. The ones who placed yokes on people, but who didn’t lift the heavy burdens from them. Or violated the Law themselves. The ones who were not compassionate, forgiving, merciful, understanding, unbending about the Law, didn’t like Jesus healing the sick on the Sabbath, complaining about His disciples fasting on the Sabbath, who have hearts of stone, The ones who put Jesus to death for being different,for changing the Law to be more fulfilling, taking the yoke off of people. Jesus taught that Law would be fulfilled in Him.

Remember Paul? The Pharisee would followed the Law so strongly, passioately, blindly that he had Christians put to death.

Also the Jews had 613 laws they followed. Jesus told not to be so bound by the law. He condemned, criticized, those who did.
We in the Catholic Church have so many. For example: GIRM, Code of Canon Law, Catechism of the Catholic Church, and well as others. Do you think we have way more than 613 laws? What would Jesus truly say about this? If, he challenged the Jews for the 613 laws, what might he say about our church? Yes, the law is important with it there can be no freedom. Yes, we do need some guidelines and guidance. Jesus did not condemn the Law out right, just be compassionate, understanding, merciful, forgiving,flexible, pastoral.

One size doesn’t fit all, all the time. There are always exceptions. Does God and Jesus want for us to have our arm twisted to follow? Isn’t that one of our gifts from God, free will?

Now if you had truly read it (Sorry, it was so small and maybe difficult to see) Please reread it again. Especially, No. 28

Patrick
 
PatrickJT914 said:
Oh, yes it’s true that Protestantism has crept into the Church by falsly saying saying that we humans are so evil, terrible, dirty, sinful, rotten that God won’t forgive us. Why do people have to put God into a box? Why do people have to be Neo-Pharisees? You know the ones (epecially in Jesus’ time) ordinary human beings who thought they were the only ones who could make the laws and interpet them as well. The ones who placed yokes on people, but who didn’t lift the heavy burdens from them. Or violated the Law themselves. The ones who were not compassionate, forgiving, merciful, understanding, unbending about the Law, didn’t like Jesus healing the sick on the Sabbath, complaining about His disciples fasting on the Sabbath, who have hearts of stone, The ones who put Jesus to death for being different,for changing the Law to be more fulfilling, taking the yoke off of people. Jesus taught that Law would be fulfilled in Him.

Remember Paul? The Pharisee would followed the Law so strongly, passioately, blindly that he had Christians put to death.

Also the Jews had 613 laws they followed. Jesus told not to be so bound by the law. He condemned, criticized, those who did.
We in the Catholic Church have so many. For example: GIRM, Code of Canon Law, Catechism of the Catholic Church, and well as others. Do you think we have way more than 613 laws? What would Jesus truly say about this? If, he challenged the Jews for the 613 laws, what might he say about our church? Yes, the law is important with it there can be no freedom. Yes, we do need some guidelines and guidance. Jesus did not condemn the Law out right, just be compassionate, understanding, merciful, forgiving,flexible, pastoral.

One size doesn’t fit all, all the time. There are always exceptions. Does God and Jesus want for us to have our arm twisted to follow? Isn’t that one of our gifts from God, free will?

Now if you had truly read it (Sorry, it was so small and maybe difficult to see) Please reread it again. Especially, No. 28

Patrick
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They aren’t merely guidelines, they are ordinances layed down by the Church as a minimum, the Jewish laws about which Jesus was speaking were the ones that included Stoning your disobediant son etc.
If you look at the Church’s disciplines they aren’t that hard, they are not a very big “yoke” if I may so put this.

“You must deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me.”

Why can we not view the Church’s disciplines as a cross to bear, and if we bear it sweetly and love the cross it will be more and more light, look at St. John Vianney.

Ad Iesum per Mariam

Patrick (different Patrick)
 
Thank you, Ljuba for hijacking this thread. 🙂

I went to confession one day and confessed to eating meat on Friday. The priest said it wasn’t a sin.

My problem is thinking of another penance to do. Usually, I have some event to attend which is why I am eating meat. Any suggestions?
 
Hijacking? I can leave.

I’d like to have heard your priest’s understanding of your confessed sin. Hopefully, he just misunderstood, you misunderstood or both. I know of priests who tell the sinner that they most certainly have not sinned by missing Masses and going to Holy Communion without confessing and penance first. The priest was wrong. But boy the friend who tried to confess his sacrilege sure was happy. No more Sunday Mass for him by golly!

No. I don’t have any suggestions. Most people I know would still do without the meat. You can bet the Vegans that attend functions don’t suddenly order a steak. They’d eat pretzel sticks if they had to but they wouldn’t break their abstinence. Why do you want to?
 
Ljuba said:
Hijacking? I can leave.

I’d like to have heard your priest’s understanding of your confessed sin. Hopefully, he just misunderstood, you misunderstood or both. I know of priests who tell the sinner that they most certainly have not sinned by missing Masses and going to Holy Communion without confessing and penance first. The priest was wrong. But boy the friend who tried to confess his sacrilege sure was happy. No more Sunday Mass for him by golly!

No. I don’t have any suggestions. Most people I know would still do without the meat. You can bet the Vegans that attend functions don’t suddenly order a steak. They’d eat pretzel sticks if they had to but they wouldn’t break their abstinence. Why do you want to?
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What do you mean, leave? You mean leave this thread?

I don’t know why the priest said what he did.

Sometimes one goes to a party or a wedding on a Friday and it is difficult to abstain from meat. I know years ago you would ask your pastor for a dispensation. The last time I did that, the pastor laughed in my face. I have heard priests on EWTN say to vegetarians that they should eat something they don’t like. I suppose I could do that.
 
Mary1973 said:
What do you mean, leave? You mean leave this thread?

I don’t know why the priest said what he did.

Sometimes one goes to a party or a wedding on a Friday and it is difficult to abstain from meat. I know years ago you would ask your pastor for a dispensation. The last time I did that, the pastor laughed in my face. I have heard priests on EWTN say to vegetarians that they should eat something they don’t like. I suppose I could do that.
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Don’t be so hard on yourself. These people aren’t.

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E7D9143BF932A25750C0A9669C8B63

When St. Patrick’s day falls on a Friday thousands of Catholics do not abstain.
 
The bishops always announce a dispensation especially since it always comes during Lent.
 
I thought that was changed after V2. Anything with a meat flavor is permissable as long as it does not contain meat as told to us by a priest.
 
I’m not sure how many of these are Pre-Vatican II traditions…

My grandparents, during Lent, typically have fish fridays (which I can’t attend because of my severe allergy)
  • when I was still living with my parents we would often pray the Rosary on Sunday night before bed
  • we always pray the blessing before meals (Bless us O Lord…) to which my father always adds “and may the Lord provide for the needs of others”
  • at some point during the month of May the parish comes together to pray the rosary, everyone takes a turn leading the Hail Mary and places a flower at an image or statue of Mary
  • my mom is a teacher at a Catholic school, every May she sets up a Marian shrine somewhere in the school hallway, using my grandmother’s giant rosary.
  • my grandmother (lives next door) has a shrine in the family room, and my mother and I recently decided to turn the guest room into a room for prayer and icons
  • we all sing Christmas hymns on Christmas eve and day (though obviously that’s more than a Catholic tradition)
 
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