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mdgspencer
Guest
This is a drastic view. Or is it drastic? Read this article and see.
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This is a drastic view. Or is it drastic? Read this article and see.
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Wesrock
Guest
Thank you for the article. I had (and still have, to a degree) the same initial reaction as the author. Still, it’s not like kissing before marriage (at least the intimate kind) has always and everywhere been seen as a casually normal part of courting.
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Irishmom2
Guest
I think it’s drastic as it is pointless. A kiss is not a sexual encounter. A kiss does not have to lead to temptation or an occasion of sin. Maybe for some, but not for most. To make a generalization that it is only for after marriage is just too out there for me.
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OKComputer
Guest
It’s fine if a couple wants to do this, I don’t see an issue with it. But, it sounds a little silly to me.
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Swiftdove
Guest
Nice. funny, because just yesterday, I reminded my husband how, before we got married, we were intimate and I was not yet Catholic, himself just joining the church a year before meeting me. I went through RCIA, was baptized and joined the church. We got serious about marriage, and decided to live chaste before marriage. Since we had already been intimate, a kiss for us would have been tempting. So we decided not to kiss either. It was a beautiful purifcation and we were all sparkly white on our wedding day. <3
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ThomasMT
Guest
A beautiful expression of love and devotion that in this day and age is most certainly worthy of praise and support.
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VonDerTann
Guest
IMHO it’s absurd.
Dating isn’t just finding someone for yourself - its about being someone else’s special person.
In that respect, you can hold views that are just too far out of the mainstream,such that you wind up coming across as a weirdo to many others - including perfectly devout people who you might otherwise be perfectly suited for (and vice versa). Also, if you hold X view that’s out of the mainstream, you end up placing the desire to find someone else holding X view above the desire to find a healthy, faith-filled person and develop a healthy relationship with them - including if they’re very different from you.
IMHO for every “John & Katie” from the article there are a bunch of Johns and Katies living alone who can’t meet anyone, out of some desire to never kiss until they marry. And they wonder why…
One final point: I’m sorry, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with kissing - nor wanting to kiss. Speaking as a guy, back when I was single I wanted to kiss; and I wanted to meet women who wanted to kiss me - heck, IMHO every red-blooded person should have some desire like that, and I probably would have declined to date (seriously) any woman who said “no kissing till marriage!”
Dating isn’t just finding someone for yourself - its about being someone else’s special person.
In that respect, you can hold views that are just too far out of the mainstream,such that you wind up coming across as a weirdo to many others - including perfectly devout people who you might otherwise be perfectly suited for (and vice versa). Also, if you hold X view that’s out of the mainstream, you end up placing the desire to find someone else holding X view above the desire to find a healthy, faith-filled person and develop a healthy relationship with them - including if they’re very different from you.
IMHO for every “John & Katie” from the article there are a bunch of Johns and Katies living alone who can’t meet anyone, out of some desire to never kiss until they marry. And they wonder why…
One final point: I’m sorry, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with kissing - nor wanting to kiss. Speaking as a guy, back when I was single I wanted to kiss; and I wanted to meet women who wanted to kiss me - heck, IMHO every red-blooded person should have some desire like that, and I probably would have declined to date (seriously) any woman who said “no kissing till marriage!”
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Lara
Guest
The “health” of the relationship has nothing to do with whether or not a couple decides not to kiss.
As for being a weirdo, don’t forget that to mainstream society, all Catholics are weirdos. It’s good to know how to go against the grain.
Kissing indiscriminately isn’t very wise due to the risk of getting h pylori, which is a difficult bug to get rid of, as well as herpes simplex, which can spread when not active. So, for health reasons alone, I think it’s a good idea to hold off.
As for being a weirdo, don’t forget that to mainstream society, all Catholics are weirdos. It’s good to know how to go against the grain.
Kissing indiscriminately isn’t very wise due to the risk of getting h pylori, which is a difficult bug to get rid of, as well as herpes simplex, which can spread when not active. So, for health reasons alone, I think it’s a good idea to hold off.
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redcatholic
Guest
It kinda depends on the kiss. My wife might term a certain kiss a sexual encounter. With her or with another.
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Irishmom2
Guest
Chaste dating does not have those kinds of kisses. Or shouldn’t if it leads to more than just a kiss. So, that isn’t really what I was talking about.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Being catholic is not weird. Deciding that a peculiar custom (kissing someone of the opposite sex)
equals immorality, without any basis in fact, will, I’m sorry to say, get you branded as a weirdo. There are lots of people - including those who save sex for marriage - who will view “no kissing” as just too off the wall.
That’s bad enough. What’s worse is the ripple effect it has, where maybe it keeps you from a healthy relationship because you refuse to kiss and your potential partner says, “I can’t live with that.”
There’s another issue l can think of. It’s off the wall to say “no kissing till marriage.” Even if I wanted to date someone holding to that rule, it’d be totally fair to ask “what other odd rules will they demand if I agree? we must sleep in separate rooms after marriage? I’m not allowed to see her nude after we marry?” People who hold to some arbitrary oddball rule tend to have (or later decide to have) more.
equals immorality, without any basis in fact, will, I’m sorry to say, get you branded as a weirdo. There are lots of people - including those who save sex for marriage - who will view “no kissing” as just too off the wall.
That’s bad enough. What’s worse is the ripple effect it has, where maybe it keeps you from a healthy relationship because you refuse to kiss and your potential partner says, “I can’t live with that.”
There’s another issue l can think of. It’s off the wall to say “no kissing till marriage.” Even if I wanted to date someone holding to that rule, it’d be totally fair to ask “what other odd rules will they demand if I agree? we must sleep in separate rooms after marriage? I’m not allowed to see her nude after we marry?” People who hold to some arbitrary oddball rule tend to have (or later decide to have) more.
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Lara
Guest
Then you could say saving sex for marriage is an arbitrary odd ball rule.
I think it’s actually very arbitrary for a man to want to kiss a woman whom he’s only just met. As you get on with the dating relationship, you can converse about these things. A woman usually doesn’t state this rule as an ultimatum.
I think it’s actually very arbitrary for a man to want to kiss a woman whom he’s only just met. As you get on with the dating relationship, you can converse about these things. A woman usually doesn’t state this rule as an ultimatum.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Saving sex for marriage is in fact arbitrary - but 1) the church in fact holds it as doctrine and 2) the doctrine has sound rationale, namely, sex brings children, etc. Not kissing until marriage is an arbitrary requirement that a faithful catholic is not required to adhere to.
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VonDerTann
Guest
You make it sound as if peck on the lips leads to unchastity. That’s going from like C to Z awfully quickly.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Agreed. And to be honest, many apparently devout Catholic people who write or blog online seem to have extremely bizarre views of dating, relationships and marriage, to the point where they don’t seem to be living in the same universe as the many average normal Catholics I grew up around.you can hold views that are just too far out of the mainstream,such that you wind up coming across as a weirdo to many others - including perfectly devout people who you might otherwise be perfectly suited for (and vice versa).
It’s articles like these that make me happy I am in a phase of my life where I don’t need to be dating or searching for a mate, because if some guy said these type of things to me I would be very weirded out.
The impression I get is that the author and people who ascribe to this no-kiss-before-marriage view are somehow unable to control themselves, so one kiss is going to lead to a mortal sin.
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Neithan
Guest
There are different kinds of kisses. Keeping any expression of erotic romance for the sacrament of marriage is the ideal. A discerning couple can kiss lightly and with simple affection. There is room for nuance here.
Believing that bread and wine become the physical flesh and blood of our incarnate God, and then eating that, is really, really weird. It really doesn’t get weirder. We shouldn’t shy away from being weird in this very strange and confused culture, though. Sometimes weird is better than the norm.Being catholic is not weird.
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VonDerTann
Guest
I would draw a very sharp distinction between a belief required by the faith, and a purely optional belief one pulls from their ear that they demand others live by.
Further, we’re supposed to have some red-blooded erotic desire for the opposite sex: the demand that we never display any eroticism is a great way to be a sibling to your spouse instead of a spouse - or to remain single forever.
Further, we’re supposed to have some red-blooded erotic desire for the opposite sex: the demand that we never display any eroticism is a great way to be a sibling to your spouse instead of a spouse - or to remain single forever.
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EmilyAlexandra
Guest
As somebody who is not a Catholic, I found that oddly thought-provoking. I think a lot of people regard kissing as quite a trivial activity. People kiss complete strangers at discos or nightclubs essentially as a recreational activity. The British daily newspaper The Guardian has a weekly blind date feature. One of the questions they ask every couple they match up for a date is, “And… did you kiss?” A lot do. Often they will say that they kissed but that they don’t want to see each other again.
Perhaps I am unexpectedly prudish, given that I was by no means a virgin on my wedding day. I have only ever kissed one person, and that person is my husband. We had our first kiss together when we were 16, and 22 years later we’ve never kissed anyone else. In terms of intimacy, I don’t really consider it to be that different from actual sexual intercourse. If anything, it can seem more intimate. I appreciate that a lot of people do have a lot of sexual partners before they get married, so I am not saying that I expect everyone to have only ever kissed one person, but what I am saying is that I don’t really regard the threshold for kissing to be that different than the threshold for having sex. I guess I think of kissing as a serious commitment, something you do with someone you love and can imagine spending the rest of your life with.
Sorry, I probably sound a bit silly, but those were my thoughts!
Perhaps I am unexpectedly prudish, given that I was by no means a virgin on my wedding day. I have only ever kissed one person, and that person is my husband. We had our first kiss together when we were 16, and 22 years later we’ve never kissed anyone else. In terms of intimacy, I don’t really consider it to be that different from actual sexual intercourse. If anything, it can seem more intimate. I appreciate that a lot of people do have a lot of sexual partners before they get married, so I am not saying that I expect everyone to have only ever kissed one person, but what I am saying is that I don’t really regard the threshold for kissing to be that different than the threshold for having sex. I guess I think of kissing as a serious commitment, something you do with someone you love and can imagine spending the rest of your life with.
Sorry, I probably sound a bit silly, but those were my thoughts!
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JimG
Guest
I think you sound quite reasonable. Many cultures, both current and previous, are not so casual about intimacy as our own. I recall reading about courships wherein the couple had to be accompanied by a chaperone at all times until they were married.
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