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Lifeisbeautiful3
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How would you guide a young person to find a spouse? Back to to OP’s question, do you think kissing should not occur until after marriage?
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otjm
Guest
Your answer was non-responsive to mine.
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JimG
Guest
Since in the current culture nothing is saved for marriage, keeping some things for marriage would certainly be a counter-cultural sign–a sign of contradiction–that marriage means something.
Meaningfull friendships.
One of your friend can become one day your husband.
We learn to know each others deeply before falling into a relationship.
At least should not occur before you feel it is the person of your life and are ready to comit to him.
It should not occur if you are just trying a relationship and see what will happened.
Maybe I don’t understand what you had written?
My argument is that lovers are not people to be tried and discard if they are not good enough for us.
It is normal to take out time, to know the person, talk of important topics and discern before choosing. But we should not play with people, their feelings and their bodies, and try them before concluding that we are not a good match and leaving them.
Intimacy, such as kissing is engaging the people, it creates bound, and should not happened before we feel that we are ready to married them.
My argument is that lovers are not people to be tried and discard if they are not good enough for us.
It is normal to take out time, to know the person, talk of important topics and discern before choosing. But we should not play with people, their feelings and their bodies, and try them before concluding that we are not a good match and leaving them.
Intimacy, such as kissing is engaging the people, it creates bound, and should not happened before we feel that we are ready to married them.
I am sure some people deliberately try to make things different to be a sign of contradiction and make sense on marriage again.
It can be kissing for a few people. But just live our engagement chastely can be a way to make sense, in addition to moral convictions.
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otjm
Guest
You wrote about a drug (it is actually a normal hormone, oxytocin and is released under several circumstances) and said:
And I responded that comparing it to a drug belittles people. I see it (your statement) as bordering on implying, if not outright implying that people become so besotted they are not capable of controlling their sexual urges - which in turn is contradicted in the use of NFP in marriage; they - and in particular men - are not reduced to some drugged up sexual prowler.
I do not know of medical studies which show when oxytocin first starts to be released; the literature I have seen is that it it released during sexual intercourse. At what Point, the literature does not say.
But I have my doubts that it is released by a good night kiss on the front porch. I suspect it is released much further down “the road”.
And even when released, it is by no means uncontrollable.
I do not care to take this conversation down the path of describing various stages of sexual intimacy, nor do I believe that involved physical intimacy prior to marriage is appropriate (we can call it a mortal sin, to keep this conversation back to the issue - a kiss). I don’t believe a kiss is a mortal sin, nor even a venial sin. It is often nothing more than a sign of affection; and seems appropriate to me when a relationship is heading for marriage. More than that - nope.
“Dating culture” seems to be something out of the 1990’s and since, likely driven in at least a small part by technology (e.g. dating websites). Back in the 1960’s and 1970’s we dated; which might be not much more than going to a dance together (or meeting there); going to a high school or college sports game, or a movie, or a group “date” of several “couples”. That appears to be old fashioned now; and for what little I see of today’s “culture”, it is not anywhere I would go.
However, dating is a means of meeting people where one can get to know the other person - and sometimes, even have fun (is that still permissible?). Many people still find spouses from school; but if one has not, then one still needs to meet people, and preferably more than one.
I have two daughters, both of whom found their spouse in college. And both engaged in group “dating” until they started to focus on one individual. And both seem happily married.
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Tenzin
Guest
My parents didn’t kiss in their wedding. Yes, I wasn’t there, but I saw the tapes. I think this may be cultural as well on kissing.
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27lw
Guest
There’s always this to consider as well. I notice this article (secular) phrases it as “kissing and other sexual activity”, meaning this source, at least does consider kissing as a sexual activity:
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RolandThompsonGunner
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People who condemn “dating culture” always seem to mean a form of dating defined by casual sex. That’s not what dating has to be. Dating can just be young men and women spending time together to see if there’s a romantic spark and if they’re compatible. That’s it. It doesn’t have to have a seedy connotation.
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NeedANap
Guest
Oxytocin is released in very lare amounts during intercourse and during childbirth, but just having social interactions can release it as well. Playing with your kids releases oxytocin, cuddling releases it, a close conversation can release it. It is a bonding hormone, but it can help form bonds of many natures, not just sexual.
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27lw
Guest
Hah! Where do you live, RolandThompsonGunner? Von Trapp Fantasy Land?Anicette:
People who condemn “dating culture” always seem to mean a form of dating defined by casual sex. That’s not what dating has to be. Dating can just be young men and women spending time together to see if there’s a romantic spark and if they’re compatible. That’s it. It doesn’t have to have a seedy connotation.
That’s not what most modern secular people think:
The sweet spot to sleep together is between the third and the sixth date, according to this report.
Here’s another howler: “But just because OKCupid users typically wait for sex (until the third date?!) doesn’t mean they feel prudish.”
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RolandThompsonGunner
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Northern Virginia.
Luckily, you’re not obligated to agree with “most modern secular people.” Obviously, lots of people do take dating to mean casual sex. My point is that it doesn’t have to mean that. Dating just means spending time with someone in a “more than friendship” context. It doesn’t necessarily imply anything about sex one way or another.
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And breastfeeding.
All couple are differents toward this.
But often, when a couple is still young and start to have sex recently, desire is great and the self restrain is difficult, so NFP will not be the more appropriate- which may mean if they are married but don’t believe in contraception that parenthood may not be far away.
But it is always a bad thing.
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