Kennedy dispute reveals divide among Catholics over duties of politicians on abortion issue

[rep140]

and who made this a public matter to begin with??? None other than Patrick Kennedy himself…by their fruits ye shall know them

I have a problem with using the Eucharist as a weapon. Jesus was criticized for eating with sinners. But, P. Kennedy has brought this upon himself.

BTW, I live in Buffalo and we have a Catholic pro choice representative. A couple of years ago he and his family were at Mass and the deacon giving the homily publicly called him out on his voting record. The rep and his family walked out and haven’t been seen in church since. I know people who were at that Mass and were scandalized by the deacon’s behavior. The consensus was that they were at Mass to worship and not there to witness a public scolding. By witholding communion the re presentation of the Last Supper becomes a shunning exercise. Somehow, I don’t think that Jesus would approve.

 

[redrosetea]

and who made this a public matter to begin with??? None other than Patrick Kennedy himself…by their fruits ye shall know them

I have a problem with using the Eucharist as a weapon. Jesus was criticized for eating with sinners. But, P. Kennedy has brought this upon himself.

BTW, I live in Buffalo and we have a Catholic pro choice representative. A couple of years ago he and his family were at Mass and the deacon giving the homily publicly called him out on his voting record. The rep and his family walked out and haven’t been seen in church since. I know people who were at that Mass and were scandalized by the deacon’s behavior. The consensus was that they were at Mass to worship and not there to witness a public scolding. By witholding communion the re presentation of the Last Supper becomes a shunning exercise. Somehow, I don’t think that Jesus would approve.

We also don’t know what might have gone on prior to this…The deacon also has to worry about young women and men that could be influenced to abort a baby cause this guy is a catholic and is in the govt and he goes to mass and thinks it’s ok to have abortions…even the law says so

I think he and the rest of his ilk have done great damage to the faith…and their actions have scandalized many

Lets not forget what Christ did right in the temple to the money changers…he turned over their tables and whipped them

Christ didn’t always go around just loving people ,he also rebuked them

 

[pontoon]

BRAVO to the Bishop. IT MEANS SOMETHING TO BE CATHOLIC. If you say you are Catholic then follow the churches teachings, BE CATHOLIC!

You can not support Abortion and BE CATHOLIC. I hope everyone who reads this, will sign the Matthan Declaration. Just go to Manhattan Declaration . org, read the summary and sign.

It is time to STAND UP AND BE CATHOLIC.

HOORAY FOR THE BSHOP. Where are the rest of the Bishops?

 

[fix]

and who made this a public matter to begin with??? None other than Patrick Kennedy himself…by their fruits ye shall know them

I have a problem with using the Eucharist as a weapon. Jesus was criticized for eating with sinners. But, P. Kennedy has brought this upon himself.

BTW, I live in Buffalo and we have a Catholic pro choice representative. A couple of years ago he and his family were at Mass and the deacon giving the homily publicly called him out on his voting record. The rep and his family walked out and haven’t been seen in church since. I know people who were at that Mass and were scandalized by the deacon’s behavior. The consensus was that they were at Mass to worship and not there to witness a public scolding. By witholding communion the re presentation of the Last Supper becomes a shunning exercise. Somehow, I don’t think that Jesus would approve.

Canon law allows for such things and that is not contrary to the faith.

 

[fix]

The thing I find most distateful about this controversy is that all of us in the public arena feel as though “we” are the judge and jury for Mr. Kennedy and his family and that the Catholic leaders involved are carrying out this dialogue in public rather with Mr. Kennedy privately. Imagine if you had sinned and a priest stood up in the Church and confronted you with that sin? It is very sad. I don’t disagree that what Mr. Kennedy is saying and doing is contrary to moral teachings of the Church. But I also believe that this needs to be an issue from the sinner and his Pastor.

The sin is public and thus it requires public correction. To let it go uncorrected, publicly, is scandalous.

 

[Pamm]

How did that Deacon know whether or not the politician had confessed his sins prior to Mass? What impact did “calling him” out have on the rest of his family? Were they guilty by association? It is tough enough to manage our own sins and confessions without having to be responsible for others. Communion is supposed make us one with the Father. No one knows the state of grace of another except God. In my mind, this absoluteism without perfect knowledge is a scarey thing. It makes me think of the Scarlet Letter and of burning people on the cross. This is NOT what Jesus would do. He would use a more pastoral approach to bring the sinner to a state of grace.

 

[LilyM]

How did that Deacon know whether or not the politician had confessed his sins prior to Mass? What impact did “calling him” out have on the rest of his family? Were they guilty by association? It is tough enough to manage our own sins and confessions without having to be responsible for others. Communion is supposed make us one with the Father. No one knows the state of grace of another except God. In my mind, this absoluteism without perfect knowledge is a scarey thing. It makes me think of the Scarlet Letter and of burning people on the cross. This is NOT what Jesus would do. He would use a more pastoral approach to bring the sinner to a state of grace.

But this is, and must be, about so much more than his state of grace as a private individual. There’s public scandal, and the fact that he doubtless influenced members of the public to sin, involved.

Private confession to one’s priest, under the seal of secrecy the confessional provides, is not sufficient when it comes to reparation necessary to combat a public scandal. Public recanting of one’s previous public support for abortion (or gay marriage, women’s ordination or whatever else) is necessary.

Put it this way - imagine someone embezzled a million dollars from his boss, and not only admitted to it publicly, knowing that their high profile would influence others to do similar wrongs, but acted thereafter as if there was absolutely nothing wrong with what they had done, let alone not making any sort of public restitution or apology to the many who he wrongly influenced.

It speaks to the genuineness of the contrition - of the change of heart - of the desire to sin no more - of a person that they would publicly sin and knowingly influence a great many others to sin but NOT make the public restitution required to put to rights (as far as possible) the very public damage their actions have done. The confession of a person in such circumstances would be of doubtful validity, as is the validity of the confession of anyone who is not prepared to make proper and appropriate restitution for their sins.

 

[fix]

How did that Deacon know whether or not the politician had confessed his sins prior to Mass?

It is not about the state of his soul. It is about his public words and actions that cause scandal. He may not even be personally culpable, that is not our business, what is our concern is his public conduct that affects the body of Christ.

What impact did “calling him” out have on the rest of his family?

What effect does public support for abortion have on his family and the rest of the Church?

Were they guilty by association?

Any untoward effects are due to his bad conduct, not public correction. You blame the Church instead of the one causing scandal, why?

It is tough enough to manage our own sins and confessions without having to be responsible for others. Communion is supposed make us one with the Father. No one knows the state of grace of another except God. In my mind, this absoluteism without perfect knowledge is a scarey thing. It makes me think of the Scarlet Letter and of burning people on the cross. This is NOT what Jesus would do. He would use a more pastoral approach to bring the sinner to a state of grace.

We know what Jesus would do because He speaks through His Church. Canon law is at the service of Truth. We should submit to the Church not place ourselves above Her.

To take communion while publicly rejecting the authority of Christ through His Church is hardly exclusively a private matter.