Kepler Spacecraft Finds 2 Planets Sharing Same Orbit

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I apologize for sounding obtuse but what IF they crashed and the crash formed the moon? Would it contradict Genesis then?
Hi, Faith1960,

No.

Again, the how of God’s creativity is not the point of the Holy Bible. That He loves His creation is the enduring message of both Old and New Testament prophets, Son and Apostles.

God loves you,
Don
 
So basically the answer to my question is that scientific discoveries, such as what is in the link I posted, doesn’t conflict with the Bible because the Bible isn’t meant to be read as how the earth and universe was formed but why, and that God did it all. Correct?
Essentially.

Think of it this way. Suppose that you understood ALL the workings of the universe, and tomorrow you were asked to describe for a remote tribe - whose technology consisted of earthen pots, levers, hammers, knifes and not much more - how the universe was created.

Would you go into a detailed account of Calculus and vectors so that you could explain relativity and quantum electrodynamics…

Or would you give them an allegorical account that essentially conveyed the high points of what happened without explaining any technical detail?

Now, compare your answer to the Creation stories in Genesis.
 
Hi, Faith1960,

No.

Again, the how of God’s creativity is not the point of the Holy Bible. That He loves His creation is the enduring message of both Old and New Testament prophets, Son and Apostles.

God loves you,
Don
Thanks for your replies and patience. 🙂
 
Important - Scripture and Revelation are true. Certain things and events are described.

How exactly does one go about removing anything that touches on science?
Note that something can be true, and not have to be literal.
 
Do you have a creditable link for this? Also how is energy flashing in and out of existence? What is creating energy since I was under the impression by the 1st law of thermodynamics that nothing natural can create or destroy energy?
A good book on quantum electrodynamics would cover it. I’m not sure, but a book called QED is a good layman’s book and may have that topic.

On a quantum level (that of the very small) it turns out that things can be explained and interpreted in multiple ways. It’s not clear if any one of those ways is any more right or wrong than any other way at this point.

There is an argument that that matter essentially flashes in and out of existence from one instant to the next. It works mathematically. There is also an argument that sometimes we are observing an electron moving forward in time, but that we could also be observing its inverse particle - a positron - moving backward in time - this also works mathematically.

There is also an argument that there is actually only 1 electron in the universe, and that this single electron is instantaneously moving backward and forward in time to serve as the electron(s) for every atom. This also works to some extent.

Some of these ideas are a bit more out there. We just don’t have enough information yet to limit some of these ideas, but likely will soon.

If you get even smaller, and look at the string theory models, it is possible to show that an entire universe can literally start from nothing.

None of this denies God. If anything, it praises Him. It’s like become educated enough in painting to understand the difficulty and subtleties of brush strokes, of paint used, of light, of canvas, or educated enough in music to understand the golden braids of Bach, and how they might compare to an Escher painting.

Do you wonder if when someone invented the wheel if there were people there arguing that it was anti-God because he gave us legs with which to walk?
 
The article is talking about something that has yet to be verified and if it is what does it matter?
There is zero evidence that the moon was created when a planet crashed into the earth. There is zero evidence of a big bang. It is all theory.
Actually, both of those statements are false. There is in fact a great deal of evidence for each.

Lunar Formation
With respect to the moon, lunar samples indicate the surface of the Moon was once molten, is one. Another is the Moon’s apparently relatively small iron core and a lower density than the Earth, which indicates that it wasn’t created “alongside” the Earth.

Rocks collected during the Apollo Moon landings show oxygen isotope ratios identical to those of Earth which implies that the rocks originated here. The highly anorthositic composition of the lunar crust, as well as the existence of KREEP-rich samples, gave rise to the idea that a large portion of the Moon was once molten, and a giant impact scenario could easily have supplied the energy needed to form such a magma ocean.

Evidence shows that if the Moon has an iron-rich core, it must be small. In particular, the mean density, moment of inertia, rotational signature, and magnetic induction response all suggest that the radius of the core is less than about 25% the radius of the Moon, in contrast to about 50% for most of the other terrestrial bodies.

Impact conditions can be found that give rise to a Moon that formed mostly from the mantles of the Earth and impactor, with the core of the impactor accreting to the Earth, and which satisfy the angular momentum constraints of the Earth-Moon system.

Also, we have evidence of what such an impact looks elsewhere and can see that it is comparable to how things look here. Specifically, warm silica-rich dust and abundant SiO gas, products of high velocity (> 10 km/sec) impacts between rocky bodies has been detected around the nearby (29 pc distant) young (~12 My old) Beta Pic Moving Group star HD172555 by the Spitzer Space Telescope.

Meanwhile, a belt of warm dust in a zone between 0.25AU and 2AU from the young star HD 23514 in the Pleiades cluster appears similar to the predicted results of a collision with the embryonic Earth, and has been interpreted as the result of planet-sized objects colliding with each other. This is similar to another belt of warm dust detected around the star BD +20°307 (HIP 8920, SAO 75016).

There are also several problems with this scenario, but when compared against other lunar creation models, the impact model is the best.

Big Bang
There is a VERY great deal of evidence for Big Bang, ranging from the discovery many years ago that everything in the universe is receding from everything else, to the cosmic background radiation found by Penzius and Wilson.

The model also ties into models about how modern physics (forms of particles, energy and physical laws) would have come into being, and as we test this theory with higher and higher energy cyclotrons, the theory continues to be confirmed.

Again, certainly there are issues with the theory, but it is by far the best theory.

And understand we are using the word “theory” in the scientific sense. We have a theory of electricity, a theory of magnetism, etc. - no one questions whether those theories are correct. We use the word theory because we can not know with 100% certainty because that doesn’t yet exist. The arguments for these tests are inductive (at their base) not deductive.
 
The very idea that we do not need to know anything outside of salvational matters.
When Christ was asked the most important commandment, he answered that there are two, one is to love your neighbor as yourself; the other is to love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.

The last of course means that we can learn about God not only by what He reveals of Himself, but by His actions. In the same way that you can learn about a person from talking to them, you can also learn about them from what they create. The works of Bach, tell you something about Bach.
 
Why do you consider revelation of God through understanding His physical laws to be different from revelation of God through His prophets/revealed word?

Certainly God knew that He was creating a creature that was intelligent enough to discern His laws, and to learn something about the maker by studying the works themselves? So He understood that His creation was as much a revelation as His word.
 
Why do you consider revelation of God through understanding His physical laws to be different from revelation of God through His prophets/revealed word?

Certainly God knew that He was creating a creature that was intelligent enough to discern His laws, and to learn something about the maker by studying the works themselves? So He understood that His creation was as much a revelation as His word.
The science circle represents the observations humans can make. Now they are limited to our 5 senses, 3 dimensions and time. From these observations we reason.

Information flow from Revelation contains information we cannot know without being told, the supernatural.

You can see by the arrows that God informs all of His creation. So yes, we see a limited amount of His creation through science.

The idea here is that in the area of intersection between faith and reason is true. So, yes properly reasoned physics should have no problem with faith. The problem would be improperly reasoned observations, that are contrary to faith, scientism.

The diagram shows the direction of the information flow.
 
The science circle represents the observations humans can make. Now they are limited to our 5 senses, 3 dimensions and time. From these observations we reason.
This is not correct. We use tools to extend beyond our 5 senses and 4 dimensions.
Information flow from Revelation contains information we cannot know without being told, the supernatural.

You can see by the arrows that God informs all of His creation. So yes, we see a limited amount of His creation through science.
We don’t know that is the case. We have no reason to believe that we can’t (eventually) see all of His creation through science.
The idea here is that in the area of intersection between faith and reason is true. So, yes properly reasoned physics should have no problem with faith. The problem would be improperly reasoned observations, that are contrary to faith, scientism.
Truth is not the intersection of faith and reason. Truth is what works.
The diagram shows the direction of the information flow.
The diagram is nonsensical.
 
I tried to be kinder and offer you some way to see it for yourself, Buffalo, but Kbachler speaks rightly.
 
This is not correct. We use tools to extend beyond our 5 senses and 4 dimensions.

We don’t know that is the case. We have no reason to believe that we can’t (eventually) see all of His creation through science.

Truth is not the intersection of faith and reason. Truth is what works.

The diagram is nonsensical.
These tools exist in the 5 sense world. Even with other tools the data still comes up that same funnel.

Are you arguing that science can discover the supernatural?🙂

Truth will work in the intersection otherwise one side in wrong. Which one do you pick?

Thanks.🤷
 
These tools exist in the 5 sense world. Even with other tools the data still comes up that same funnel.

Are you arguing that science can discover the supernatural?🙂

Truth will work in the intersection otherwise one side in wrong. Which one do you pick?

Thanks.🤷
I am arguing that there is no supernatural in the sense that I think you’re using the word. I don’t believe that God breaks His Own laws, moral or physical.
 
I am arguing that there is no supernatural in the sense that I think you’re using the word. I don’t believe that God breaks His Own laws, moral or physical.
So science can find God or not?
 
“That which you are looking for is what is doing the looking.” 😃
 
When Christ was asked the most important commandment, he answered that there are two, one is to love your neighbor as yourself; the other is to love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.

The last of course means that we can learn about God not only by what He reveals of Himself, but by His actions. In the same way that you can learn about a person from talking to them, you can also learn about them from what they create. The works of Bach, tell you something about Bach.
Kbachler,

Is your argument the argument from complexity?

My mind is functioning thank you. This is why I ask.
 
Kbachler,

Is your argument the argument from complexity?

My mind is functioning thank you. This is why I ask.
No, it is not the argument from complexity. I am not saying that any of Aquinas’ five proofs or the argument from complexity work as a proof. I am saying God is “known” only through belief. Once there is belief, more can be learned about the Creator by examining the creation.
 
No, it is not the argument from complexity. I am not saying that any of Aquinas’ five proofs or the argument from complexity work as a proof. I am saying God is “known” only through belief. Once there is belief, more can be learned about the Creator by examining the creation.
Hi, kbachler,

I’d venture that we can also know God through a godly hope and through love, since He is love.

God loves you,
Don
 
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