Kept out: School discourages gay, transgender enrollment

[jtauke]

No, the parents are punishing the child for the sins of the parents. It’s fine for a child in such a situation to attend a Catholic school as far as I’m concerned, as long as the parents understand that their child will be taught Catholic doctrine.

I can imagine a class on sexual morality in which some other kid raises his hand and says, “Well, what about Johnny’s parents?” Now, all of a sudden we’ve made Johnny the focus of the class. I doubt that he will appreciate it. But if that’s what the parent’s want, let them convince the principal that it’s not going to be a problem.

A difference without a distinction. The end result is the further damaging of a child.

One that also doesn’t apply to good Catholic parents that happen to have a gay or lesbian kid.

In any case do you think that child’s opinion of the church ever recovers? For all intents and purposes the church is probably dead to them.

 

[Darryl1958]

Yes, it is. I agree with what you wrote. But religious institutions must be coizgnant of the fact that if they take the money, they might have to pay the piper. So they need to be prepared to refuse the money and go it alone.

Your mistake is that you believe that the money that government ‘bestows’ upon schools belongs to the government.
It belongs to the people who include religious people, who in fact ARE the government.

 

[jmcrae]

Yeah, no one even got remotely close to suggesting that.

The debate is whether to say homosexual behaviour is okay to do in school, or should it be punished?

If it shouldn’t be punished then that means it’s okay to do it.

If it’s okay to it, that means it’s not really a sin, correct?

 

[JonNC]

The debate is whether to say homosexual behaviour is okay to do in school, or should it be punished?

If it shouldn’t be punished then that means it’s okay to do it.

If it’s okay to it, that means it’s not really a sin, correct?

I think all sexual behavior should be punishable at school. I’m sure you agree.

Jon

 

[at9009]

This is my position. Sending children out because they ARE homosexual eliminates the possibility of encouraging them to lead a Christian life, and if indeed they are homosexual, a chaste life.

Jon

EXACLTY!

You know what it tells me as a celibate (trying to be chaste) gay/ssa guy. It tells me one again that for a large subset of Christian organizations I’m not welcome because of my cross. They make no effort whatsoever to distinguish between the inclination and the acts (most people rarely do). So it is going to tell young teens struggling with this particular cross two things. One that they must keep their secret at all costs or risk losing everything, two if it is ever found out, don’t expect support but expect to be ostracized and removed from the Christian community.

These probably are the least helpful statements for anyone who is struggling with what to believe:

Although Maglietto said the school does not intend to exclude people, he said it is “not welcoming” to homosexual and transgender students.

I understand that welcoming is a buzzword now but there are so many better ways to express what I think he meant (at least hope he meant) as not excluding people but not changing its Church beliefs.

“If we cannot legally refuse students who are struggling with homosexuality or gender identification, we must maintain our right to hold to the truths of God’s Word,” Breitkreutz wrote.

Sounds like he’d want to kick out students struggling if they had the ability to do so. If that wasn’t his intention, he needs to work on his wording. LGBT/ssa, especially, LGBT/ssa Christians feel pretty darn marginalized, misaligned, and not to mention animosity by many. If you are trying to help one lead a life glorifying God, this is not a way to encourage them.

They wonder why most people who struggle with this particular cross loss faith. When Christian fellowship feels more like an enemy than a family bounded by blood and love of Christ, when you fear telling your own family for fear of disownment, when different Christian leaders blame natural disasters on you, when the fall of society is blamed on you, when you contemplate suicide because if other Christians treat you poorly God couldn’t possible love you either, your personal cross becomes like an anchor and is even harder to carry.

End minor rant, it’s by God’s grace that I have faith when there is so much culture war **** like this.

 

[jmcrae]

I think all sexual behavior should be punishable at school. I’m sure you agree.

Jon

I do, yes. Why should homosexual behaviour get a pass?

 

[jmcrae]

EXACLTY!

You know what it tells me as a celibate (trying to be chaste) gay/ssa guy. It tells me one again that for a large subset of Christian organizations I’m not welcome because of my cross. They make no effort whatsoever to distinguish between the inclination and the acts (most people rarely do). So it is going to tell young teens struggling with this particular cross two things. One that they must keep their secret at all costs or risk losing everything, two if it is ever found out, don’t expect support but expect to be ostracized and removed from the Christian community.

These probably are the least helpful statements for anyone who is struggling with what to believe:

I understand that welcoming is a buzzword now but there are so many better ways to express what I think he meant (at least hope he meant) as not excluding people but not changing its Church beliefs.

Sounds like he’d want to kick out students struggling if they had the ability to do so. If that wasn’t his intention, he needs to work on his wording. LGBT/ssa, especially, LGBT/ssa Christians feel pretty darn marginalized, misaligned, and not to mention animosity by many. If you are trying to help one lead a life glorifying God, this is not a way to encourage them.

They wonder why most people who struggle with this particular cross loss faith. When Christian fellowship feels more like an enemy than a family bounded by blood and love of Christ, when you fear telling your own family for fear of disownment, when different Christian leaders blame natural disasters on you, when the fall of society is blamed on you, when you contemplate suicide because if other Christians treat you poorly God couldn’t possible love you either, your personal cross becomes like an anchor and is even harder to carry.

End minor rant, it’s by God’s grace that I have faith when there is so much culture war **** like this.

Unless you do something or tell someone, who would even know? Your life is not defined by your sexuality.

 

[at9009]

Unless you do something or tell someone, who would even know? Your life is not defined by your sexuality.

Because people never ask about one’s dating life ever? Seriously, the first or second question people always ask me is if I am dating or married. I say no and then next question is always why? Deflecting can become pretty exhausting.

So basically what you are saying comes off as that any hostility a gay/ssa person could face is okay because it’s their fault for not being able to hide their cross well enough. Not only does that encourage a secret shame mentality which is pretty destructive, it causes one to constantly overanalyze their speech, monitor all interactions to minimize any possible suspicions. It is a pretty awful way to live and has a really negative aspect on one’s mental health and stress levels.

Having friends who know without it being a big deal has been a tremendous relief on my shoulders and actually make carrying my cross easier not harder.

 

[jmcrae]

Because people never ask about one’s dating life ever? Seriously, the first or second question people always ask me is if I am dating or married. I say no and then next question is always why? Deflecting can become pretty exhausting.

So basically what you are saying comes off as that any hostility a gay/ssa person could face is okay because it’s their fault for not being able to hide their cross well enough. Not only does that encourage a secret shame mentality which is pretty destructive, it causes one to constantly overanalyze their speech, monitor all interactions to minimize any possible suspicions. It is a pretty awful way to live and has a really negative aspect on one’s mental health and stress levels.

Having friends who know without it being a big deal has been a tremendous relief on my shoulders and actually make carrying my cross easier not harder.

Friends, yes. School officials, no. It’s none of their business.

 

[at9009]

Friends, yes. School officials, no. It’s none of their business.

It is very easy for someone to let it slip and then the school knows. So, again, are you trying to say should others know its suddenly the person’s fault should they face any hostility? If the person is chaste and living in accordance with church teaching, why does it matter if they are open or not? In fact by being open, some have been examples on how to live and to let others know they are not alone.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

…Not only does that encourage a secret shame mentality which is pretty destructive, it causes one to constantly overanalyze their speech, monitor all interactions to minimize any possible suspicions. It is a pretty awful way to live and has a really negative aspect on one’s mental health and stress…

…Having friends who know without it being a big deal has been a tremendous relief on my shoulders and actually make carrying my cross easier not harder.

How do you propose that someone deal with harmful proclivity towards sinful behavior without endorcing that behavior?

I’ve got plenty of sinful tendencies that I tend not to broadcast to the world because I’d rather they not fall into temptations that I tend to fall into.

 

[GEddie]

I think all sexual behavior should be punishable at school. I’m sure you agree.

Jon

I agree 111%.

I also believe that any alternate-sexual assertions by those of juvenile age should not be accommodated by any educational entity. The EE should say, in plain English, that “As long as you are in school, you do not behave sexually (in a school context) and you are the gender shown on your registration papers. What you do in adult life is not the school’s concern.”

ICXC NIKA

 

[Darryl1958]

The debate is whether to say homosexual behaviour is okay to do in school, or should it be punished?

If it shouldn’t be punished then that means it’s okay to do it.

If it’s okay to it, that means it’s not really a sin, correct?

It is often deemed to be hate speech to call homosexual behavior a sin.

LBGTq have been normalized and legalized in our cultures now. The school understands that well enough, and has no intention in normalizing that behavior in their school too.

People comparing it to other sins are doing so while completely ignoring the fact that there are no Adulterers Pride Parades, or Fornicators Pride parades. Educators can take a stand against sexual cheating and/or promiscuity without being seen as haters, and legally treated as such. That is no longer the case with LBGTq.

 

[at9009]

We all need our own Simon sometimes in our lives to help carry our crosses.

How do you propose that someone deal with harmful proclivity towards sinful behavior without endorcing that behavior?

It’s actually quite simple. The Church itself makes a concerted effort to distinguish between temptations and actual sin. I don’t understand how its that difficult to grasp. The attitude the school seems to be expressing is that they don’t make the distinction and believe that inclination is just as bad. So once again, I am getting the connotation that should others discover my SSA (which shouldn’t be hard to guess in the future as I’m now in my mid-20s and have never dated) any hostility is okay because I didn’t hide it better. How is that okay?

I’ve got plenty of sinful tendencies that I tend not to broadcast to the world because I’d rather they not fall into temptations that I tend to fall into.

I don’t think you are quite aware of how many situations come up where I could inadvertently out myself. Especially in our world which is so hyperfocused on romantic relationships. Often, I end up feeling like I’m traveling a fine line between deflection, lies of omission, etc to avoid people suspecting (because for some I know it doesn’t really matter I’m celibate).

It’s also not about broadcasting, no one said it is but of course everyone is trying to create this either or environment. It is very difficult to deal with a cross when you are fighting everyone on all sides. As a ssa Christian who adheres to a traditional sexual ethic you are fighting temptations and the world that say sexual relations between people of the same sex is okay, you are fighting your own personal inclinations and temptations, you are dealing with hiding your attractions among fellow Christians knowing a good portion would not support you and another group would not support you should other Christians become hostile to you, and fighting to get scraps within the Church community at times.

 

[aicirt]

Your mistake is that you believe that the money that government ‘bestows’ upon schools belongs to the government.
It belongs to the people who include religious people, who in fact ARE the government.

Yes, true but it doesn’t work out that way. Nice to give money in taxes so kids can have a lunch until one finds out that now that you are dependent on that money for those lunches, the federal, which is secular, tells you the conditions of what you must do to keep getting that money, which was yours at one time, to feed those kids.

 

[Darryl1958]

Yes, true but it doesn’t work out that way. Nice to give money in taxes so kids can have a lunch until one finds out that now that you are dependent on that money for those lunches, the federal, which is secular, tells you the conditions of what you must do to keep getting that money, which was yours at one time, to feed those kids.

What you are describing is not a secular government, but a tyranny.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

…It’s actually quite simple. The Church itself makes a concerted effort to distinguish between temptations and actual sin. I don’t understand how its that difficult to grasp…

Just wondering where you are coming from. I agree with you. :tiphat:

…The attitude the school seems to be expressing is that they don’t make the distinction and believe that inclination is just as bad. So once again, I am getting the connotation that should others discover my SSA (which shouldn’t be hard to guess in the future as I’m now in my mid-20s and have never dated) any hostility is okay because I didn’t hide it better. How is that okay?..

It isn’t okay from my perspective. I disagree with the school’s policy.

With that said, is it okay for the school to have that policy? In other words, is it okay for the school to have a policy you and I disagree with due to the protections our US Constitution grants regarding freedom of religion?

…It’s also not about broadcasting, no one said it is but of course everyone is trying to create this either or environment. It is very difficult to deal with a cross when you are fighting everyone on all sides. As a ssa Christian who adheres to a traditional sexual ethic you are fighting temptations and the world…

You have a difficult cross to bear to be sure. My prayers to you. The culture we live in is very difficult particularly where it comes to human sexuality. It’s very tough on heterosexual males to be sure and with four daughters of my own, trying to protect them from the debased sexual ethics in the country is bad enough, let alone what you’ve got to deal with. Peace to you fellow CAF member.

 

[GEddie]

What you are describing is not a secular government, but a tyranny.

There is a continuum between any kind of governance and tyranny, and the boundary is very often just a hairline fracture.

I’d say we in the USA have been on the wrong side of the fracture for over a generation now, without even feeling it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[jmcrae]

It is very easy for someone to let it slip and then the school knows. So, again, are you trying to say should others know its suddenly the person’s fault should they face any hostility? If the person is chaste and living in accordance with church teaching, why does it matter if they are open or not? In fact by being open, some have been examples on how to live and to let others know they are not alone.

First, where am I advocating any kind of hostility?

Second, why would a chaste person need to be disciplined by the school? If you have no sex life, what is there to report to the school officials?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think it would be best if the schools, media and government quit focusing on and policing sexuality. Who cares. It would be best if people kept their sex lives in the bedroom instead of dragging them out for everyone to see and comment on. Ugh. it’s really disgusting what is happening today. gross.