Key in the Tabernacle - what would you have done?

[Diana_Catherine]

I love the OP’s idea, just because you think of something sarcastic doesn’t mean you’re out of line. I would have thought the same thing–quit being so rude.

Exactly
I don’t understand the reason for a lot of the rude replies:shrug:

 

[triumphguy]

I love the OP’s idea, just because you think of something sarcastic doesn’t mean you’re out of line. I would have thought the same thing–quit being so rude.

Thinking something sarcastic, writing it down makes it concrete - it’s no longer a thought - and it colours everything else that’s written.

The first thing that hit me was the word “threw” - It skewed how I saw everything else he wrote.

So when he wrote about wanting to mail the key to the Bishop that came across as angry and arrogant.

I can only respond to what is put in front of me. So I said it sounds like you don’t like the parish and the OP said, No, I actually like the parish.

I wouldn’t have known otherwise.

So, I’m not being rude. I’m giving my opinion based on what the OP wrote himself. So I won’t stop thanks.

 

[Cathryn]

I see no problem writing the Bishop if you don’t trust the Pastor. Stealing the key is wrong.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

I think perhaps, you, out of love and reverence for the Blessed Sacrament, over analyzed the situation. It was five minutes before Mass was starting and both the priest and deacon was in the church. And while the GIRM does say that the tabernacle should be locked to prevent profanation, there is nothing to suggest that it has to remain locked continously and only unlocked just before or during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

 

[runningdude]

I received spiritual counsel. He said, take the key and give it to the priest. He said to do more than I did. He said that what the deacon did was wrong.

Who gave you this counsel?

 

[runningdude]

Yes, priests and deacons have very grave responsibilities. But one would think that one of the ones on the top of their list would be the safety of the blessed host. There is a reason for locks on the tabernacle. There are bad people out there with bad intentions. And there are good people out there with perfectly good intentions that can also blaspheme hosts - maybe a parishioner who wants to take a couple home “just in case” they need one.

You are letting you imagination run wild here! Leaving the key in the Tabernacle during mass is not sinful.

And the key isn’t there to protect Jesus - He is invincible. The key is to protect those who would attempt to harm an invincible being such as God. If someone attempted to harm Jesus, he’d be only hurting himself. Christ suffered and died once, and the Eucharist is his glorious resurrected body!

This isn’t to say we shouldn’t protect Jesus as seeing his body muddied or ruined is rightly upsetting. However, it is a matter of judgement how much protection is necessary, and it is unfair to question a priests or deacons judgement. If someone did in steal the Eucharist, they would bear no blame, only the one who stole it.

Christ is present in the clergy as well, and seeing Catholics harshly criticizing there own clergy damages other people’s perception of the Church. Clergy deserve respect, even and especially when we don’t agree with them on simple matters of judgement.

 

[englishredrose]

HonourD

What would I have done

Nothing. Absolutely nothing because there is nothing to be done. Even if it was a total stranger walking in off the street etc and somehow done that I wouldn’t have done anything more at that time. Jesus knows what is on our hearts he be more concerned for the individual than he would be for the your perceived action.

Later I may well mention it to the priest and just leave it at that. If he knows the key is there then fine thats all there is to it. To be honest, I serve and have no idea what happens to the keys when. I leave all that stuff to the priest and now I think they are on the chalice till he unlocks and locks it etc. But you done all you can do and if your still concerned then write to the bishop by all means but you mayn’t get the response you want of course from what I am reading here.

Jesus is aware of any crime being committed and he loves the sinner committing the crime so - to worry too much about the wafer rather than Jesus seems that the point of being at adoration has been temporary lost on you. Its an incident that you can choose to disclose to the Bishop or not but like I say from the feedback of others his response may not be what you want or may be. We don’t always like what we see of people but we turn to deacons and priests easily enough when we are in trouble. We are all sinners and leave it at that I think. That is what I would have done.

 

[HonoraDominum]

Who gave you this counsel?

My parish priest. I should probably clarify - I told him the situation, and he said that I should have taken the key and given it to the priest. He didn’t say specifically “You should have done more.” He said that what I did was not sinful.

 

[pnewton]

Exactly
I don’t understand the reason for a lot of the rude replies:shrug:

Unfortunately, or fortunately, people tend to get defensive of priests when they think they are mistreated. If someone posts a thread in which they think they know better than the priest and acted on that alleged superior knowledge, then replies are likely to be contrary to what the OP wanted. If someone posts in a way that is uncharitable, then it is perfectly find to report such posts.

Pats on the back are not all that is to be expected in such a topic, yet the first poster choose to start this topic. I have no idea as to his motivation for posting his treatment of this priest.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, people tend to get defensive of priests when they think they are mistreated. If someone posts a thread in which they think they know better than the priest and acted on that alleged superior knowledge, then replies are likely to be contrary to what the OP wanted. If someone posts in a way that is uncharitable, then it is perfectly find to report such posts.

Pats on the back are not all that is to be expected in such a topic, yet the first poster choose to start this topic. I have no idea as to his motivation for posting his treatment of this priest.

I agree. We should be defending our priests and as I said in my first response, we don’t know why when the priest answered the OP he seemed to roll his eyes or seemed rude. We don’t always know what is going on in one’s mind or what they might be dealing with at the moment. He didn’t know what the plans were between the priest and the deacon. Maybe the deacon was told to leave the key there, maybe not. We don’t know.

It just seems some of the replies are a little off, suggesting he get counsel, because he saw something he perceives as wrong means he doesn’t like the parish, , to having a psychological disorder characterized by guilt, undermining the priest, accusing the priest of sinning and not understanding what the words “I know” mean. None of which were in his OP.

I will agree no one should ever take the key and mail it to the bishop and as I said we don’t know why the key was left there. Taking the key is like two wrongs not making a right and none of us were there to see exactly how the deacon handled the hosts, so we can only go by what he is telling us. Maybe the deacon was in a hurry and it appeared as if he was throwing them in, or dropping them in, maybe he was being disrespectful. We are all sinners and the deacon didn’t mean to be disrespectful at the moment but might have been late and in a hurry. Also, he did say in his original post that after he told the priest he felt under the obedience of the priest and did was he was told.

He then asked another priest and was given a different answer as to what he should have done, so he is just looking to his fellow Catholic christians to get an idea of how they would have handled it.

Perhaps he was overly concerned and yes, absolutely, definitely we need to and always should defend our priest. I am all for that and I am not sure if I would write a letter to the bishop but I guess I just see him asking a what would you do question and getting some “I am reading more into this” responses.

 

[TrueLight]

I agree. We should be defending our priests and as I said in my first response, we don’t know why when the priest answered the OP he seemed to roll his eyes or seemed rude. We don’t always know what is going on in one’s mind or what they might be dealing with at the moment. He didn’t know what the plans were between the priest and the deacon. Maybe the deacon was told to leave the key there, maybe not. We don’t know.

It just seems some of the replies are a little off, suggesting he get counsel, because he saw something he perceives as wrong means he doesn’t like the parish, , to having a psychological disorder characterized by guilt, undermining the priest, accusing the priest of sinning and not understanding what the words “I know” mean. None of which were in his OP.

I will agree no one should ever take the key and mail it to the bishop and as I said we don’t know why the key was left there. Taking the key is like two wrongs not making a right and none of us were there to see exactly how the deacon handled the hosts, so we can only go by what he is telling us. Maybe the deacon was in a hurry and it appeared as if he was throwing them in, or dropping them in, maybe he was being disrespectful. We are all sinners and the deacon didn’t mean to be disrespectful at the moment but might have been late and in a hurry. Also, he did say in his original post that after he told the priest he felt under the obedience of the priest and did was he was told.

He then asked another priest and was given a different answer as to what he should have done, so he is just looking to his fellow Catholic christians to get an idea of how they would have handled it.

Perhaps he was overly concerned and yes, absolutely, definitely we need to and always should defend our priest. I am all for that and I am not sure if I would write a letter to the bishop but I guess I just see him asking a what would you do question and getting some “I am reading more into this” responses.

I’m with you. I was a little surprised at the harsh responses.

I honestly think it comes down to how meticulous people are about protecting the host.

Maybe the OP was overzealous, maybe not. At least his intention was good and was borne out of reverence.

 

[Stylites]

Which is exactly what I did. I went and found the priest. We all have temptations and actions. My temptation did not win, and I did what I felt was most appropriate. Had I done what I wanted to do, it would not have been taken in a spirit of charity at all. It would have only caused anger by the priest and deacon.

But that doesn’t negate the terror I had of thinking that the hosts, that the true presence of Christ, was left endangered, at risk of being profaned or stolen, and the parish priest had a complete ignorance of this reality. Hence my reaction of being upset.

I would do anything to protect the profanation of Christ in the sacrament. He’s really there. For anyone to have such a lackadasical attitude towards the safety of the Host breaks my heart.

Passing a judgment that a priest has “a lackadasical attitude towards the safety of the Host” breaks mine.

 

[GwenL]

Five minutes before Mass, a key was in the tabernacle, and another person was in the pews. I don’t see the problem here. This is certainly not a situation that would generate “horror.”

Do you know where the sacristy is, in relation to the tabernacle? It’s quite possible that people are in the sacristy, preparing for Mass, and watching the tabernacle. It’s also quite possible that the sacristan (or deacon or priest) know that the other person still in the chapel as a trustworthy person. Perhaps you should assume that people at this parish, especially the priest and deacon, actually know what is going on in their parish, and have thought through procedures for protecting the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m a sacristan. I open the church every morning. At about ten minutes prior to Mass, I check the ciboria in the tabernacle to determine how many consecrated hosts are present. I check to see that some of our “regulars” are in the pews, and then leave the key in the tabernacle. The rector has directed that we leave the key in the tabernacle so that the priests may access the tabernacle easily during Mass. I also leave the sacristy door open a few inches so that I can see anyone who goes into the sanctuary.

At our cathedral, if you had come into the sanctuary five minutes before Mass, and taken the key from the tabernacle, I would have called the police. But before I had a chance to do that, you probably would have been stopped by five or six of our parishioners.

 

[pnewton]

Five minutes before Mass, a key was in the tabernacle, and another person was in the pews. I don’t see the problem here. This is certainly not a situation that would generate “horror.”

I think the word that was used was “terror”.

 

[martininthefiel]

Five minutes before Mass, a key was in the tabernacle, and another person was in the pews. I don’t see the problem here. This is certainly not a situation that would generate “horror.”

Do you know where the sacristy is, in relation to the tabernacle? It’s quite possible that people are in the sacristy, preparing for Mass, and watching the tabernacle. It’s also quite possible that the sacristan (or deacon or priest) know that the other person still in the chapel as a trustworthy person. Perhaps you should assume that people at this parish, especially the priest and deacon, actually know what is going on in their parish, and have thought through procedures for protecting the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m a sacristan. I open the church every morning. At about ten minutes prior to Mass, I check the ciboria in the tabernacle to determine how many consecrated hosts are present. I check to see that some of our “regulars” are in the pews, and then leave the key in the tabernacle. The rector has directed that we leave the key in the tabernacle so that the priests may access the tabernacle easily during Mass. I also leave the sacristy door open a few inches so that I can see anyone who goes into the sanctuary.

At our cathedral, if you had come into the sanctuary five minutes before Mass, and taken the key from the tabernacle, I would have called the police. But before I had a chance to do that, you probably would have been stopped by five or six of our parishioners.

I assume your priest and deacon know what they are doing. You mentioned it to one of the ministers, he was not alarmed. It should have ended right there.

BTW, you have no business approaching the Tabernacle in close enough proximity to pocket the key without permission.

 

[Cathryn]

Five minutes before Mass, a key was in the tabernacle, and another person was in the pews. I don’t see the problem here. This is certainly not a situation that would generate “horror.”

Do you know where the sacristy is, in relation to the tabernacle? It’s quite possible that people are in the sacristy, preparing for Mass, and watching the tabernacle. It’s also quite possible that the sacristan (or deacon or priest) know that the other person still in the chapel as a trustworthy person. Perhaps you should assume that people at this parish, especially the priest and deacon, actually know what is going on in their parish, and have thought through procedures for protecting the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m a sacristan. I open the church every morning. At about ten minutes prior to Mass, I check the ciboria in the tabernacle to determine how many consecrated hosts are present. I check to see that some of our “regulars” are in the pews, and then leave the key in the tabernacle. The rector has directed that we leave the key in the tabernacle so that the priests may access the tabernacle easily during Mass. I also leave the sacristy door open a few inches so that I can see anyone who goes into the sanctuary.

At our cathedral, if you had come into the sanctuary five minutes before Mass, and taken the key from the tabernacle, I would have called the police. But before I had a chance to do that, you probably would have been stopped by five or six of our parishioners.

I am also sacristan and this is exactly what I have been told to do by my pastor, and yes, I too would have called the police if anyone unauthorized took the key, and probably would tackle the person myself, if they refused to stop. I leave the sacristy door open a crack to keep an eye on the whole sanctuary. Someone could think it was unattended, but it is not. I also have to count the hosts in the tabernacle before Mass to know how many to place in the ciborium. I have never had anyone question why the key was there. I set up early before the rosary begins so many times I place the key an hour before Mass. After Mass the key is placed in a locked cabinet, in a locked sacristy , in a locked church.

 

[Laetus]

I am also sacristan and this is exactly what I have been told to do by my pastor, and yes, I too would have called the police if anyone unauthorized took the key, and probably would tackle the person myself, if they refused to stop. I leave the sacristy door open a crack to keep an eye on the whole sanctuary. Someone could think it was unattended, but it is not. I also have to count the hosts in the tabernacle before Mass to know how many to place in the ciborium. I have never had anyone question why the key was there. I set up early before the rosary begins so many times I place the key an hour before Mass. After Mass the key is placed in a locked cabinet, in a locked sacristy , in a locked church.

There is absolutely no reason to leave the key in the tabernacle. There is nothing positive about it. Why is it even done? Does anyone ever stop to think why it’s done? It doesn’t facilitate anything. It’s a very bad practice that shouldn’t be continued simply because “we have always done it that way.” That alone should be reason enough for it never to happen. On the negative, it leaves the Eucharist unsecured and it says that no one cares. It also says that either God is not important or that God is not sacramentally present in the Eucharist, take your pick or choose both. Sadly I think projecting that impression is often by design.

The good thing is that if you actually did what you mentioned, the key would never be left in the tabernacle again. First, if you tackled me (you wouldn’t, but let’s say you did) in the county I live in, you’re going to get arrested. I would ensure a copy of the arrest report along with a cover letter was faxed to the chancery before the end of the day. If that didn’t put an end to such a terrible practice I would file suit against you and the diocese in civil court. The plea deal would be for the parish to terminate such a terrible practice.

I don’t think you would tackle me so let’s say you did actually contact the cops. If they actually came (I doubt they would here locally unless you told them something other than the truth) I would be more than happy to get cited because I would follow the same process only this time I would alert the local daily and the two weekly tabloids. Anything local about the Church that is negative makes the front page, above the fold. It would be within the first five pages of the tabloids. The chancery would receive copies of those as well. You can bet it would get picked-up by the 11:00 pm news as well.

Either way the keys would never be left in the tabernacle again so in a sense your theoretical actions are to be applauded.

 

[Laetus]

There is absolutely no reason to leave the key in the tabernacle. There is nothing positive about it. Why is it even done? Does anyone ever stop to think why it’s done? It doesn’t facilitate anything. It’s a very bad practice that shouldn’t be continued simply because “we have always done it that way.” That alone should be reason enough for it never to happen. On the negative, it leaves the Eucharist unsecured and it says that no one cares. It also says that either God is not important or that God is not sacramentally present in the Eucharist, take your pick or choose both. Sadly I think projecting that impression is often by design.

The good thing is that if you actually did what you mentioned, the key would never be left in the tabernacle again. First, if you tackled me (you wouldn’t, but let’s say you did) in the county I live in, you’re going to get arrested. I would ensure a copy of the arrest report along with a cover letter was faxed to the chancery before the end of the day. If that didn’t put an end to such a terrible practice I would file suit against you and the diocese in civil court. The plea deal would be for the parish to terminate such a terrible practice.

I don’t think you would tackle me so let’s say you did actually contact the cops. If they actually came (I doubt they would here locally unless you told them something other than the truth) I would be more than happy to get cited because I would follow the same process only this time I would alert the local daily and the two weekly tabloids. Anything local about the Church that is negative makes the front page, above the fold. It would be within the first five pages of the tabloids. The chancery would receive copies of those as well. You can bet it would get picked-up by the 11:00 pm news as well.

Either way the keys would never be left in the tabernacle again so in a sense your theoretical actions are to be applauded.

 

[HonoraDominum]

I am also sacristan and this is exactly what I have been told to do by my pastor, and yes, I too would have called the police if anyone unauthorized took the key, and probably would tackle the person myself, if they refused to stop. I leave the sacristy door open a crack to keep an eye on the whole sanctuary. Someone could think it was unattended, but it is not.

The tabernacle is in a room with no windows. There were no cracked doors. As far as I could tell, there were no security cameras in the room (although there were probably cameras in the parking lot). I was wearing my chapel veil and long sleeves, so that would have obscured my face and hair in many shots had there been a camera and given them little to identify. There were no other parishioners other than a lady who did not know who the man was who had left the keys or if they were coming back. The man who left the key was in Deacon’s vestments in the church, and after speaking to the priest, I found out that he had no intention of retrieving the key. He also had no line of site even to one of the three doors that go in and out of the chapel where the tabernacle resides. The other parishioner was walking out the door at the same time I was, but she was going the other direction, to attend the Mass.

Less than a minute after I left, the key was left in an unmonitored, unlocked room with no supervision, with a door that leads directly to the parking lot without passing any viewable area for the vestibule or the chapel.

 

[HonoraDominum]

BTW, you have no business approaching the Tabernacle in close enough proximity to pocket the key without permission.

You are so absolutely right, which is why I didn’t. But I could have, which is where the problem lies in my eyes.

I know, coudla shoulda woulda … But I’ve heard my priest preach too many times about the reverence that should be taken with the altar of God, and how God would strike people dead in the Old Testament for even touching something they shouldn’t or not saying the prayer quite right. I would much rather err on the side of being too reverent, or being stricken with horror/terror (take your pick pnewton) or holy anger when there is the opportunity for the Blessed Hosts to be profaned in any way.

I may be mocked, but God will not.