Kicked out of my pew!

[NewEnglandPriest]

I understand that we all have interior reactions to various situations. But let’s let at the big picture here. An elderly woman asked someone to move because she wanted that seat. There aren’t a lot of nice options other than just moving. Somehow I think Jesus would want us to take the nice option (just move) rather than cause a scene in church prior to Mass. If nothing else, its a good opportunity to practice humility…

 

[Sam_777]

I understand that we all have interior reactions to various situations. But let’s let at the big picture here. An elderly woman asked someone to move because she wanted that seat. There aren’t a lot of nice options other than just moving. Somehow I think Jesus would want us to take the nice option (just move) rather than cause a scene in church prior to Mass. If nothing else, its a good opportunity to practice humility…

well said…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

 

[NewsTheMan]

Who were you angry with, her or yourself?

I suppose both of us.

Her, for what I consider to be childish, ridiculous, selfish, rude, anti-Christian behaviour.

Myself for letting it get to me, for not saying anything (although, I know I shouldn’t have), for feeling disgruntled for about 2 hours afterwards, for not being as Christ-like as I should have.

But looking back, it still irks me I mean really now. She had to sit in the exact spot I was sitting at? I mean had she asked nicely, or given a reason, I would have probably silently thought, “Ok, well, a bit of an outlandish request but okay” and happily I would have given up my spot even amongst the many free spots. But it was a combination of the ridiculous nature of it all and the rudeness.

 

[Miserys_Fence]

Absolutely not. Age is no excuse for being a self-centered jerk.

Amen!

And neither is the “you don’t know what her life has been like/what she’s been through” excuse. I lost a husband to suicide, a fiance to a heart attack, have battled depression, and dealt with my children’s grief and emotional issues as well, all as a financially struggling young widow and sole support of my family in an unstable economic time. And I don’t go round kicking people out of their seats at Mass.

Miz

 

[Miserys_Fence]

I understand that we all have interior reactions to various situations. But let’s let at the big picture here. An elderly woman asked someone to move because she wanted that seat. There aren’t a lot of nice options other than just moving. Somehow I think Jesus would want us to take the nice option (just move) rather than cause a scene in church prior to Mass. If nothing else, its a good opportunity to practice humility…

1. 60s isn’t “elderly.”
2. She didn’t ask, she ordered.
3. Why do we assume that this was an opportunity for the OP to practice humility? Maybe God wanted this to be an opportunity for the woman to learn a lesson instead.

Miz

 

[JRKH]

(Snip)
What would you have done? I felt very bad, I felt awful in fact, because instead of just moving up I stood up and said that I was sitting there, when I should have immediately just moved up and saved myself and her the trouble and the unsettling of our spirits before Mass. It kinda made me angry though too.

I would have simply moved. What is the point of making a point of a position in a pew.
While I agree that she acted uncharitably in this regard as well, we cannot control her. We can only control ourselves.

You obviously see the result of your confrontational attitude in the matter. It wrecked your peace. Not because of what she did but because of what you did.

Pray to God for greater patience and a greater understanding of what is truly important.

Peace
James

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Told her to sling her hook is what I would ahve done you should not have backed down now you have enabled are disgustingly rude behaviour, people can only treat you hte way you let them and you ahve let this woman treat you disgracefully.

She was completely out of order, we had similar problems at my parish when we went from two masses to one and the priest correctly pointed out to these rude people that the seats don’t belong to them they belong to the church and anyone can sit in them.

They have no claim on them and no right to remove people from them.

 

[PatriceA]

I understand that we all have interior reactions to various situations. But let’s let at the big picture here. An elderly woman asked someone to move because she wanted that seat. There aren’t a lot of nice options other than just moving. Somehow I think Jesus would want us to take the nice option (just move) rather than cause a scene in church prior to Mass. If nothing else, its a good opportunity to practice humility…

I would have moved, and I would look for another place to sit in the future so that this situation doesn’t continue. And I would pray for the woman, who knows what is going on in her life and why that particular pew is so important to her.

 

[JRKH]

1. 60s isn’t “elderly.”
2. She didn’t ask, she ordered.
3. Why do we assume that this was an opportunity for the OP to practice humility? Maybe God wanted this to be an opportunity for the woman to learn a lesson instead.

Miz

A person who is “sixty” and goes around “ordering” people to move from “their” spot in a virtually empty church are not going to be amenable to “learn a lesson” by being confronted.
If God intended this to be an opportunity for her to learn a lesson here, He would have more likely caused her to have pangs of conscience about disturbing the person praying (the OP). Since this did not occur, I’d say that she was not going to learn any proper lesson by being confronted.

Peace
James

 

[NewsTheMan]

I think that I kind of did both things in one. I originally tried to make the point to her that hey; there are other places to sit, and I am sitting (kneeling and praying at the time) here so whats the big deal. But when I got that snappy comment back, I decided that it wasn’t the time or place to argue over a spot. I just can’t understand the mentality though. One person. One me taking up onelittle spot- half a metre on a 5 metre long pew.

 

[rayne89]

Being older is no excuse for bad manners. I have to side with Canadianguy on this one. I’d have told Granny that if she could physically eject me from that spot, it was all hers.

Miz

Really? In church? Of all the places to be the better person this would be it.

 

[karoleck]

Amen!

And neither is the “you don’t know what her life has been like/what she’s been through” excuse. I lost a husband to suicide, a fiance to a heart attack, have battled depression, and dealt with my children’s grief and emotional issues as well, all as a financially struggling young widow and sole support of my family in an unstable economic time. And I don’t go round kicking people out of their seats at Mass.

Miz

You are the “salt of the earth” Miserys-Fence.God Bless you.A good reply!!

I am one of those people who would have smiled and gladly have moved!! Nothing very much to my credit ,I am not an assertive person by nature–if someone pushes in front of me in a line–I just let them.

We are all creatures of habit and as a rule usually sit in “our” own spot,so to an assertive person to be “ordered around” can be a big deal.

Actually I know the full story,a behind the scenes view–this woman was really working for Screwtape as an assistant devil in training.There was a discussion amonst the devils to the effect that some said that the thread start “Kicked out of my pew” was a wonderful holy man and nothing would disturb his peace and prayer.No said Screwtape–I will send a devil in the guise of an elderly woman and then we will see how virtuous this Rosary prayer really is!! --the verdict is still out!!

It is really a funny story!! Life is like that–I like the humility of the poster of this thread!! I wonder if it was a charming,pretty young woman who gave you the “short shift”, if the reaction would have been the same?? I would give way in my car to a smiling ,charming woman far more than a sour faced person–but all that shows how lacking in judgement I am a times–judging by appearances and not seeing Christ in each person.Did you see Christ in that elderlt woman who asked you to “move baby Move–where’ in the other Pew now!!!”

It reminded me of the time when I was doing a “U” turn in the City and as I was stopped for a second to let a car pass.An indigenous agitated woman in her early twenties quickly opened the back door of my car and sat behind me.She said “take me to where ever” I told her no,I am just going around that corner to pick up a passenger in a calm manner.As I slowed down towards the corner ,as I was still moving she jumped out and ran full bore accross the traffic towards a tram.So we are tested in all sort of ways!!

 

[rayne89]

Absolutely not. Age is no excuse for being a self-centered jerk.

What like feeling because you were there first you have the right to that seat. What are we in grade school? Obviously the woman has issues. Since the OP is obviously of healthier mind and attitude the Christian thing to do is let the ornery woman have her seat. This was not a restaurant or theater, this is church -I would think sacrifice would be at forefront of our minds. I can’t believe that there are Catholic posters willing to fight for a seat at Mass.

 

[Newbie2]

There would be no way somebody kicks me out of my seat in church. Let her come earlier if she wants that seat so badly.

YOUR seat?

We all need to be humble, even that rude lady who seems to think a pew is “hers”

Dittos.

Absolutely not. Age is no excuse for being a self-centered jerk.

True, but nobody so far, unless I missed it, brought up the possibility that the woman in question is not…shall we say…right in the head. Perhaps she usually comes to mass at a different time, and always sits there?

In any case, yes, such a scenario is unsettling, just as we can think of numerous other ones, people yapping away during mass, chewing gum, cell phones, all sorts of rude behavior during mass.

I heard a snippet of a talk on Catholic Radio the other day…I think the topic was conversion, I turned it on in the middle. In any case, the Priest speaker was discussing the difference between **responding **and reacting.

Most of us, yours truly included, would react…“what a rude thing to do” vs. responding. Responding, in this scenario, would take into consideration humility, not wanting to cause a scene, the availibility of other seating etc. into consideration.

I’m not a big fan of WWJD, but I think it might apply here. Would Jesus have been put off or would he graciously move over?

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

What like feeling because you were there first you have the right to that seat. What are we in grade school? Obviously the woman has issues. Since the OP is obviously of healthier mind and attitude the Christian thing to do is let the ornery woman have her seat. This was not a restaurant or theater, this is church -I would think sacrifice would be at forefront of our minds. I can’t believe that there are Catholic posters willing to fight for a seat at Mass.

By letting the woman have the seat he has NOT done the charitable or Christian thing. What she did was a sin and he has assisted her to commit the sin and encouraged her to sin again in this way. What he did was the opposite of Christian, instead of trying to correct her fault he ran away and left her in her sin. It was not charity and it was not Christian it was cowardice.

 

[Anne1964]

When I first registered at my current parish I had a meeting with the pastor. He asked me where I normally sat and commented that people tend to be rather territorial about “their” pew. He found the whole thing rather amusing.

As for people who sit at the end of the pew and refuse to move toward the middle, I normally sit with one of my friends who is an EMHC and she sits at the end of the pew so as not to climb over people when it is time for her to approach the altar. If people come in late and the usher motions them to “our” pew, she stands to allow them to pass.

 

[benny_f]

Well! I had a very sad and somewhat bizarre experience today at Mass. Let me explain.

A few of us go to Church 40minutes before Mass starts in order to say the rosary before Mass. There are about 5 of us, and we sit near each other but not exactly right next to each other. Anyway, we were halfway through to rosary, I was kneeling down in the usual place in the same pew I have been sitting in for some months. All of a sudden, I get a tap on my shoulder.

“Move up”, says a lady in her sixties that I did recognize but I hadn’t seen her at Mass in a while.

So I thought to myself oh she obviously wants to get in - and even though this Church sits about 250 people and there are currently 5 people in it now and you can choose anywhere to sit - I move my legs as one does so she can get past and sit next to me or wherever. She then says to me, “No, move”. Now, unfortunately I am an extremely confrontational person, and I stand up to everyone in the face of anything - something I am working on however! Anyway, I stood up and I tried my best, I said, “Sorry, but I am sitting here and there are many other places to sit”. This lady then gave me a stern look, and in her best Headmistress voice said, “My boy, I have been sitting here for years, now move”. I took my stuff, and sat far away. I continued the rosary, but not in peace. I was… I don’t know. I was shocked and sad more than anything. Usually that kind of thing makes me angry, and to be honest, if I wasn’t in Church I would have ignored her and just sat back down in my place. But I moved. I just thought this was unbelievable. I mean… It was actually bizarre. And she did it so rudely and gave me such an evil look. I mean seriously, she could have chosen anywhere along the rest of the pew, and anywhere in the other 80 pews in Church!

What would you have done? I felt very bad, I felt awful in fact, because instead of just moving up I stood up and said that I was sitting there, when I should have immediately just moved up and saved myself and her the trouble and the unsettling of our spirits before Mass. It kinda made me angry though too.

Look, there’s nothing wrong with what you did. Certainly you are expected to give up your seat at Mass for an elderly woman if there is no room, but there were seats there. You did nothing wrong, she did. If she wants to squabble in Our Lord’s house, more fool her. In the end, you did get up out of courtesy, which was the correct thing to do.

If it happens again, ask her politely why does she care about which pew she sits in? Surely any seat before God is a privilege. If she takes exception, then she has a strange type of faith…

 

[Seamus_L]

I’d have told her you get an extra 90 days in Purgatory for disrupting the Rosary.

 

[NewsTheMan]

By letting the woman have the seat he has NOT done the charitable or Christian thing. What she did was a sin and he has assisted her to commit the sin and encouraged her to sin again in this way. What he did was the opposite of Christian, instead of trying to correct her fault he ran away and left her in her sin. It was not charity and it was not Christian it was cowardice.

While I appreciate that in some sense you are in defense of me; I must disagree whole-heartedly with this statement.

 

[NewsTheMan]

I’d have told her you get an extra 90 days in Purgatory for disrupting the Rosary.