Kids under 7 banned from Wedding Church Ceremony

[zaramarie81]

We are getting married in August and the thought of banning my daughter, nephew and my friends’ children is absolutely unthinkable. I am having four children as part of my bridal party - all little girls want to be bridesmaids! I think it is beautiful to be surrounded by the joy of children, even if they cry a bit. They can always be taken out if this gets very troublesome. I am providing a box of toys, colouring etc at back of church for the little ones if they get restless which will then be transferred to reception.
Also, last year we attended a friend’s wedding where the groom is a professional musician as were a lot of the guests. Instead if the usual disco everybody got up and did a turn. Our daughter was happily twirling away when the singer asked who wanted to come up next - our daughter grabbed the microphone and treated everyone to a 5 minute song that she made up as she went along. I was mortified thinkingg that this might not go down too well with the mix of Welsh Methodists and Iranian Baha’ii, but the applause was rapturous. The bride still says it was the highlight of her wedding! Much better than any formal affair!

Haha, good point in that kids can really ADD to a wedding too. I have 5 wonderful nieces and nephews and my boyfriend has several too. Should we marry, we couldn’t imagine leaving them out. I said I don’t care if we have all 9 of the kids processing down the aisle if they want to. But at our parish, we have a nursery with a flat screen TV broadcasting the Mass if a parent needs to duck out. And I would never expect the kids to stand through the wedding like the rest of the wedding party… again, I would have things arranged so that parents can easily manage a child’s “bad day”. I’d also probably have some of the home school teens babysit in the nursery so parents could even have the option of dropping their cranky kids off and going back inside to enjoy the wedding without stress.

 

[zaramarie81]

Well it is a family event, to an extent. I have already gone over this, but I suggested that if the B&G are close to the FAMILY, and not just the PARENTS of a family, then yes, the kids would be invited, and the invitation would read… “Mr and Mrs Soandso and Family”. This would obviously be the case with a sister or brother of the bride or groom. The OP’s particular problem would be an exception to the rule… but if her invitation did not have the kids listed, knowing these rules would have helped her because she could have called her brother and said… why are the kids not on the invitation, is this a mistake? Things would have been cleared up far in advance. On the other hand, if a bride wants to invite her co-worker who she has grown somewhat close to but whose husband, 8 kids, and live-in granny she has never met… well, the co-worker shouldn’t assume it is a household invitation.

I mean seriously just looking at this from a logical perspective, planning a wedding would be impossible if the B&G are made to assume that the people they invite may or may not bring along more people than are actually on the guest list.

It seems all of this could be avoided by people simply RSVPing in a timely manner like they are supposed to. At least tell me that THAT is not some foreign rule of etiquette that only socialites know about.

I agree, logistically (and etiquette-wise) guests should not assume that those not on the invite are invited. In fact, it’s my understanding that it’s pretty rude to show up with those not included in the invite.

It is just too difficult… the crowd could grow 3-4 times the size if people brought additional guests… this affects everything from fire codes to carefully planned budgets. And anyone here who has planned a wedding knows that those making the guest list WANT everyone there and STRESS big time about the guest list… so to start adding in guests of any age is sort of disrespectful.

This is especially an issue with my cousins and friends… they are often dating people. It’s been a big concern with my sibs when planning their weddings as to how to deal with the “add-ons” of dates and if they can afford that (it’s not that they don’t want people there… it’s just… where do you draw the line?). I am already starting to stress about my own wedding planning lol… so many I wan to include but it’s just not going to be a reality to invite everyone.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I sympathize with you david40. A couple of years ago we drove 7 hrs to go to a wedding of a family member (I think our kids were about 7 mo old, 2 yr old, 3 yr old at the time) and when we got there the night before we were informed dd was going to be the flower girl. Then, when we entered the reception (the wedding was on a deck at a restaurant so the reception was there too) we were informed that our children weren’t allowed at the reception (alcohol being served). Lol, that was quite a trip.

 

[zaramarie81]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I sympathize with you david40. A couple of years ago we drove 7 hrs to go to a wedding of a family member (I think our kids were about 7 mo old, 2 yr old, 3 yr old at the time) and when we got there the night before we were informed dd was going to be the flower girl. Then, when we entered the reception (the wedding was on a deck at a restaurant so the reception was there too) we were informed that our children weren’t allowed at the reception (alcohol being served). Lol, that was quite a trip.

Wow, that’s awful!

 

[CountrySinger]

I agree, logistically (and etiquette-wise) guests should not assume that those not on the invite are invited. In fact, it’s my understanding that it’s pretty rude to show up with those not included in the invite.

It is just too difficult… the crowd could grow 3-4 times the size if people brought additional guests… this affects everything from fire codes to carefully planned budgets. And anyone here who has planned a wedding knows that those making the guest list WANT everyone there and STRESS big time about the guest list… so to start adding in guests of any age is sort of disrespectful.

This is especially an issue with my cousins and friends… they are often dating people. It’s been a big concern with my sibs when planning their weddings as to how to deal with the “add-ons” of dates and if they can afford that (it’s not that they don’t want people there… it’s just… where do you draw the line?). I am already starting to stress about my own wedding planning lol… so many I wan to include but it’s just not going to be a reality to invite everyone.

I know the feeling, I’ve had friends who want to invite 300 + people, and keep costs really low. And families put pressure to invite everyone, even people that the bride and groom don’t know. I’ve seen many people go into massive debt in order to accomodate everyone.
In my hometown, if you want dinner served at your wedding, it is easily $75 per person, no matter if they dont eat it. So a family of 12 (which is common in my area) could cost $900 just for food. Not to mention the extra costs (favors, cake, drinks, etc).
So I’ve decided my wedding wil be small (just family and close friends). No random second cousin ex-fiancee’s hairdresser who I never met in my life.

 

[just_me_1]

I’m not trying to knock any group… but I do think that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency to consider weddings to be adult formal occasions rather than family occasions. Not all, obviously.

I agree. it seems like the most fancy extravagant weddings have a JOP instead of a pastor of any denomination.

I’m not sure what those brides are worried about. when you’re at the front of the church for an hour, you don’t hear kids, you can’t hear much over your heart! lol! I was a little preoccupied with the whole “OMG I’m really doing this…” to notice much. that and “whose idea were these stupid shoes???” had to force myself to tune into the priest!

my thoughts are unless it’s a formal evening thing kids should be welcome, especially to a church! I could understand not wanting kids at the reception if there was going to be alcohol and rowdyness…

truly, out of respect for the couple, I wouldn’t bring any young or out of control kids, myself, if I could find a sitter. but I think it’s tacky and a bit rude to tell people not to.

 

[zaramarie81]

I always find interesting the focus on these well known “written” rules of wedding etiquette. Far less frequently brought up are the “unwritten” rules of etiquette which the BRIDE and GROOM are responsible for fulfilling:

Don’t invite a single friend and not allow them to bring a date, if you plan on them actually attending. No one wants to attend a wedding ceremony and reception by themselves.

Don’t invite a couple and exclude their children. They are expected to dress up, attend your ceremony, buy a gift, AND pay for a sitter?

Your wedding guests will be taking time out of their schedules for YOU. They will bring you gifts. Don’t be stingy and start “counting plates” and decide to exclude dates or family members because of the cost. We all know you probably spent $10K on your dress alone and you’re going to make us come without dates or children because you don’t want to fork out the extra dough to feed them?

Ummm…

These ‘rules’ actually aren’t etiquette rules … at least not formal ones. I’ve been to many weddings as a single woman and enjoyed myself. I don’t take offense at not having a date. Also, in regards to gifts… gifts are just that… gifts. A bride and groom should never invite anyone EXPECTING gifts (a* real* etiquette rule for brides and grooms is do NOT ask for money in lieu of gifts… a gift should always be at the discretion of the giver and guests should not be instructed what to give). The logic that the guests are spending money on gifts therefore the bride and groom “owes” a dinner is defeating the purpose on both ends… this is not an exchange of goods. This is a celebration where both guests and the couple are trying to show love for one another within their means.

Also, in regards to making sure the guests have a good time… this logic can go for and against inviting children. Again, I’ve been to a wedding where guests who traveled very far were then unable to hear the vows because a child screamed through them.

I think with weddings, there needs to be graciousness on all sides. We need to keep our perspective that the bride and groom are doing the best they can and the guests are doing the best they can, and nobody “owes” anything. Many a weddings have gone awry because one party thought they were owed something that in fact, they were not.

 

[zaramarie81]

I don’t know if Texas is just completely out of the loop but I have never seen a wedding invitation without an RSVP card also. I’m surprised that you can get invitations without them, short of making the invitations yourself.

Oh and I just realized, it can’t be just a Texas thing because I have been invited to college friends’ weddings in New York, Maryland, and Minnesota.

No TX is not out of the loop. In VA, we always have RSVP cards and it is well -known that if a couples name is on the invite and NOT the kids, then only the couple is invited. At least I know that. I will say, I’ve been guilty of forgetting to RSVP at times… that’s my fault, my ADD coming into play. Not the bride and grooms.

 

[zaramarie81]

I know the feeling, I’ve had friends who want to invite 300 + people, and keep costs really low. And families put pressure to invite everyone, even people that the bride and groom don’t know. I’ve seen many people go into massive debt in order to accomodate everyone.
In my hometown, if you want dinner served at your wedding, it is easily $75 per person, no matter if they dont eat it. So a family of 12 (which is common in my area) could cost $900 just for food. Not to mention the extra costs (favors, cake, drinks, etc).
So I’ve decided my wedding wil be small (just family and close friends). No random second cousin ex-fiancee’s hairdresser who I never met in my life.

Yeah I am wondering if mine should be small too because the costs are similar here… hmmm… the problem in my case is that so much of the community and my family has walked through some tough times with me and cheered me on during my single years. I really feel like every single one of these individuals “earned” a seat at my wedding lol and I want to thank them… Well, I am not engaged yet. I guess I’ll worry about it then.

 

[CountrySinger]

Yeah I am wondering if mine should be small too because the costs are similar here… hmmm… the problem in my case is that so much of the community and my family has walked through some tough times with me and cheered me on during my single years. I really feel like every single one of these individuals “earned” a seat at my wedding lol and I want to thank them… Well, I am not engaged yet. I guess I’ll worry about it then.

I’m glad my family is small. It makes it easier, and most of them are spread out all over the country, so they probably wouldn’t be able to make it anyway.
One thing I did think about is, when I would be invited to a friend’s wedding, and not receive a “plus 1”. I would arrive, and only know the bride. Awkward. I’ve spent many a wedding sitting at a table alone, making small talk to some drunk person next to me. That is one reason I hate weddings. If I wanted to sit alone, I would stay home. Why spend tons of money buying a dress and getting my makeup and hair done?
At the most recent one, my friend saved a place for my best gay friend as my “date”. That was so much fun, we laughed all through the reception. Weddings are painful enough, I think of my dead fiancee all through them.
All Brides: add “plus 1” for all your single friends so they have someone they actually know with them. I mean, you can meet awesome people, but just in case they are very anti-social, it’s good to have a backup.

 

[zaramarie81]

I’m glad my family is small. It makes it easier, and most of them are spread out all over the country, so they probably wouldn’t be able to make it anyway.
One thing I did think about is, when I would be invited to a friend’s wedding, and not receive a “plus 1”. I would arrive, and only know the bride. Awkward. I’ve spent many a wedding sitting at a table alone, making small talk to some drunk person next to me. That is one reason I hate weddings. If I wanted to sit alone, I would stay home. Why spend tons of money buying a dress and getting my makeup and hair done?
At the most recent one, my friend saved a place for my best gay friend as my “date”. That was so much fun, we laughed all through the reception. Weddings are painful enough, I think of my dead fiancee all through them.
All Brides: add “plus 1” for all your single friends so they have someone they actually know with them. I mean, you can meet awesome people, but just in case they are very anti-social, it’s good to have a backup.

That must have been so hard for you. Honestly, the hardest weddings I’ve been to have been with dates! Ack! That’s because I happen to have a close knit group of friends that during my single years I’ve had a lot of fun at weddings with… whereas in the past, with dates, I would only know the date and the fact that we were at a wedding together made it awkward… .people were sort of hinting at if we were going to get married. Yikes. One wedding my boyfriend and I actually had an awful night because I was so upset that he wasn’t ready to commit (yikes). But I agree, if a single person doesn’t know anyone else, it’s so awful to leave them without the option of a date or better yet, a good supportive friend.

 

[CountrySinger]

That must have been so hard for you. Honestly, the hardest weddings I’ve been to have been with dates! Ack! That’s because I happen to have a close knit group of friends that during my single years I’ve had a lot of fun at weddings with… whereas in the past, with dates, I would only know the date and the fact that we were at a wedding together made it awkward… .people were sort of hinting at if we were going to get married. Yikes. One wedding my boyfriend and I actually had an awful night because I was so upset that he wasn’t ready to commit (yikes). But I agree, if a single person doesn’t know anyone else, it’s so awful to leave them without the option of a date or better yet, a good supportive friend.

It is hard. I’m glad I moved away from home, and most of my new friends are already married. When my friends started getting married, it was fine, because most of us were still single. But as my friends got married, I was the only one without a husband. And at weddings, they would spend time with their husbands, and I would be at the cursed “single’s table”. Why do they always put that table at the far end, away from everyone else?

 

[zaramarie81]

It is hard. I’m glad I moved away from home, and most of my new friends are already married. When my friends started getting married, it was fine, because most of us were still single. But as my friends got married, I was the only one without a husband. And at weddings, they would spend time with their husbands, and I would be at the cursed “single’s table”. Why do they always put that table at the far end, away from everyone else?

Oh gosh, you know, it’s been SO tough watching all my friends marry… all starting off single and then in a matter of months it seems… bam, married. One wedding, my “date” was a fellow single girl friend… we just knew we were the odd single chicks in a sea of couples, and we decided to have fun anyway but without her support… ugh! And yeah what’s up with the isolated singles table? Lol.

 

[CountrySinger]

Oh gosh, you know, it’s been SO tough watching all my friends marry… all starting off single and then in a matter of months it seems… bam, married. One wedding, my “date” was a fellow single girl friend… we just knew we were the odd single chicks in a sea of couples, and we decided to have fun anyway but without her support… ugh! And yeah what’s up with the isolated singles table? Lol.

And then you start thiking there HAS to be something wrong with you because you aren’t married. It has to be me. If I were different, I would be married. That runs through my head everyday.
The worst is when I think about how I was almost married. It’s hard to not view it as a punishment from God. If I were a better person, he would still be alive.
It is finally getting better after these years, and only because I met someone. But before, I was on a very painful guilt trip.

 

[zaramarie81]

And then you start thiking there HAS to be something wrong with you because you aren’t married. It has to be me. If I were different, I would be married. That runs through my head everyday.
The worst is when I think about how I was almost married. It’s hard to not view it as a punishment from God. If I were a better person, he would still be alive.
It is finally getting better after these years, and only because I met someone. But before, I was on a very painful guilt trip.

I understand in my own way… I don’t remember if I mentioned it, but I was once engaged too and it did not result in a wedding. It was very painful to be a bride, have a wedding planned, and then have it not happen… and as friends started getting married in droves, it became even more painful. And you do wonder what’s wrong with you vs. them! Nothing, I think… I have an identical twin who got married 6 years ago, and guess what? She is not better than me! She is my twin for goodness sakes, lol! I actually still have the dress… have never looked at it (my mom picked it up from the store when it was ready because it was too painful for me to look at it). I need to try and sell it… finally feel strong enough to do that! It’s taken a few years to get over all this.

All that said, this is why I’ll be perfectly content to have 9 kids trip down the aisle in front of me if that’s what my boyfriend wants, lol. I am just so laid back about weddings now because I’d rather the focus be on the meaning of the day than stress over every last detail.

 

[ocleirbj]

Honestly, one of the reasons my husband and I even looked at the Catholic Church was because we couldn’t find a Protestant church that welcomed children. They were always shuttled off to nurseries or “kids church” or some such thing. The best situation was a glass-enclosed room for mothers (dads not allowed due to nursing moms) and their small children to sit in and hear the service piped in, but that was quite rare. The Catholic Church was the only one we found that was (a) Biblical, (b) liturgical and (c) welcoming of children.

This is not exactly on the subject of this thread, but I’m not sure how to start another one, and your comment intrigued me.

I converted when my second child [of three] was an infant, and I have always thought that the lack of “nurseries” or “kids church” showed that the Catholic church wasn’t very welcoming of parents. I found it impossible to manage squirming toddlers who don’t know why they have to be quiet, and at the same time pay due attention to the liturgy and on the wonderful moment of communion with Christ in the Eucharist. I always felt distressed that my children were being a distraction to other people, even when they were not being particularly “bad”, just acting like kids.

At my first communion, which was at a regular Sunday mass [this was before RCIA], we were asked to be gift-bearers, and my son’s cries echoed around the large stone church from the minute we arrived - I was so embarrassed, that I ended up walking straight back down the aisle and out of the church after giving the gifts, and didn’t make my communion until the following week, when I came without him. Many times the thought of taking a fractious child to church made us decide not to go at all.

My husband said that when he was growing up, they just all went to Mass at different times. But in my tradition, going to church was done as a family, and the church offered a ministry to children that was appropriate to their age and understanding, in order that the parents could be free to focus on God. Later when they were older, they joined the parents for the full service, usually after Confirmation around the age of 12 or 13. This consideration for the spiritual needs of parents is what I found missing in the Catholic churches I attended.

 

[zaramarie81]

Sparki777;6143005:

Honestly, one of the reasons my husband and I even looked at the Catholic Church was because we couldn’t find a Protestant church that welcomed children. They were always shuttled off to nurseries or “kids church” or some such thing. The best situation was a glass-enclosed room for mothers (dads not allowed due to nursing moms) and their small children to sit in and hear the service piped in, but that was quite rare. The Catholic Church was the only one we found that was (a) Biblical, (b) liturgical and (c) welcoming of children.

This is not exactly on the subject of this thread, but I’m not sure how to start another one, and your comment intrigued me.

I converted when my second child [of three] was an infant, and I have always thought that the lack of “nurseries” or “kids church” showed that the Catholic church wasn’t very welcoming of parents. I found it impossible to manage squirming toddlers who don’t know why they have to be quiet, and at the same time pay due attention to the liturgy and on the wonderful moment of communion with Christ in the Eucharist. I always felt distressed that my children were being a distraction to other people, even when they were not being particularly “bad”, just acting like kids.

At my first communion, which was at a regular Sunday mass [this was before RCIA], we were asked to be gift-bearers, and my son’s cries echoed around the large stone church from the minute we arrived - I was so embarrassed, that I ended up walking straight back down the aisle and out of the church after giving the gifts, and didn’t make my communion until the following week, when I came without him. Many times the thought of taking a fractious child to church made us decide not to go at all.

My husband said that when he was growing up, they just all went to Mass at different times. But in my tradition, going to church was done as a family, and the church offered a ministry to children that was appropriate to their age and understanding, in order that the parents could be free to focus on God. Later when they were older, they joined the parents for the full service, usually after Confirmation around the age of 12 or 13. This consideration for the spiritual needs of parents is what I found missing in the Catholic churches I attended.

I am really sorry you had this experience. I can’t speak for all parishes, but my current parish has many large families. Sure, there is at least one outburst from a child every single Mass, but as a very pro-life parish we just “roll with it.” Most parishioners are happy to have babies and children around them and to be worshiping as all generations. Most of the Catholic Churches I grew up in also had a children’s liturgy and nurseries (of course, I am under 30 ). I will say, I love sitting next to my neices and nephews at Mass (5 and under). Sure, they are a handful, but we sit in the back in case we need to escape. The oldest (5) loves, loves, loves Mass… he’s been “playing” Mass (reciting garbled Latin, giving homilies, pretending to consecrate hosts, processing around the room with a bible etc), since he was only a year old. Now he enjoys children’s liturgy too. It’s a shame your parish experience didn’t feel as welcoming… that must be very tough on a young mom.

 

[ocleirbj]

*I am really sorry you had this experience. *

Thank you!

*… Most parishioners are happy to have babies and children around them and to be worshiping as all generations. *

I don’t mind having children around me in church - other people’s, that is. I can relax because I’m not responsible for them! But most of them are reasonably well behaved, and some amazingly so for their age. Maybe I was just too sensitive when it was my turn?

*Most of the Catholic Churches I grew up in also had a children’s liturgy and nurseries… *

There was a children’s liturgy available, but they had to be school-age to go. I was so glad when they got to that point! Of course by then they were much more tractable in the pew - the worst was more or less over. I helped lead it during the years that they attended, and enjoyed it a lot.

• (of course, I am under 30 ).*

Can you tell I’m not?

It’s a shame your parish experience didn’t feel as welcoming… that must be very tough on a young mom.

Well, I guess I have gotten over it - one of the perks of mature middle age. And I do have a sweet memory of one of my toddler sons in church - into the hush that followed our “Amen” after the priest had prayed, his scandalized little voice rang out - “Mummy!! He said “JESUS CHRIST”!!!”

 

[rayne89]

This is not exactly on the subject of this thread, but I’m not sure how to start another one, and your comment intrigued me.

I converted when my second child [of three] was an infant, and I have always thought that the lack of “nurseries” or “kids church” showed that the Catholic church wasn’t very welcoming of parents. I found it impossible to manage squirming toddlers who don’t know why they have to be quiet, and at the same time pay due attention to the liturgy and on the wonderful moment of communion with Christ in the Eucharist. I always felt distressed that my children were being a distraction to other people, even when they were not being particularly “bad”, just acting like kids.

At my first communion, which was at a regular Sunday mass [this was before RCIA], we were asked to be gift-bearers, and my son’s cries echoed around the large stone church from the minute we arrived - I was so embarrassed, that I ended up walking straight back down the aisle and out of the church after giving the gifts, and didn’t make my communion until the following week, when I came without him. Many times the thought of taking a fractious child to church made us decide not to go at all.

My husband said that when he was growing up, they just all went to Mass at different times. But in my tradition, going to church was done as a family, and the church offered a ministry to children that was appropriate to their age and understanding, in order that the parents could be free to focus on God. Later when they were older, they joined the parents for the full service, usually after Confirmation around the age of 12 or 13. This consideration for the spiritual needs of parents is what I found missing in the Catholic churches I attended.

Some of the misunderstanding about the welcoming of children is the difference between a church service and a Mass. A church service has hymns, reading of scripture and a sermon. A Mass has hymns, reading of scripture, a homily but most importantly the sacrifice of the Mass where we are in the presence of Jesus in a most spectacular, miraculous way. Children of any age would not be denied this awesome miracle by being placed in nurseries or “kids church” after all Jesus said “Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

The Mass is not the same as a service. A service is for fellowship, instruction and worship -which small children can be given an age appropriate version of. There is no preschool version of the Mass, nor should there be of course. This is why most Catholic churches do not have nurseries, some have children’s liturgy of the word but the children are returned to Mass before the consecration. It is more difficult for the parents but the graces for the children are innumerable.

 

[LilyM]

Interesting to come across this thread, having literally just attended a wedding yesterday.

The couple were Baptists, their wedding was a little over an hour, so about on a par (if not slightly longer) than the Catholic weddings I’ve attended. On the other side, there were plenty of children at both ceremony and reception. All behaved just fine - and one little guy was such a fantastic dancer too, just adorable to watch.

Jesus said ‘let the children come unto me, and do not stop them’. I think, barring exceptional circumstances like the severely depressive family member, really children should always be welcomed in church as much as possible.

Sure, they play up, but is it really a harship for parents to just take 'em out for a while if they start being too loud? Don’t parents do that anyway? All the parents I know do.

The sacrament of matrimony celebrates the institution of the family, so it seems a little sad to me not to celebrate the family to it uttermost (including children).

And what’s this about singles? I’ve attended a few weddings single and dateless - normally there’s at least a few other singles at any reception, and even where there haven’t been, I’ve found the couples more than sociable enough that I’ve had a good time.