Killing Animals for "Sport"

[DarkNight]

Because of what man has done, the animals themselves need qualified hunters.
We have destroyed their habitat.
We have destroyed their food sources,
We have destroyed their predators.

They have no where to live but in our back yards, no where to eat but in our gardens and no one to help them move on to their next life.

There are too many old and sick animals at so called “freedom in the wild” because we refuse to take on the responsibility of being the predator.
We have mucked with the natural order which God created for this beautiful world.
Animals, all animals, by the very nature of their creation by God, deserve that order to be restored to them.

Responsible hunting helps to cull the herds.
Eating the meat and utilizing the skins is sharing in God’s creation.

There is a vast difference between responsible hunting and the trophy hunters from the city.
I know. I have a farm. I have seen the difference.

 

[fultonfish]

Photographers need to be aware that sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

 

[vz71]

Wildlife photography is actually very challenging and requires much more skill than hunting.

How did you come by the experience necessary to make that judgement?

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I acknowledge that the Church does not say hunting is wrong.
I acknowledge that the Church does not say eating meat is wrong.
I acknowledge that meat that comes from hunting allows animals to live in greater likeness to how they are created by God than factory farms… so therefore if someone NEEDS meat this would be greatly preferential.

But I know we all know that the Church*** does teach that unnecessary suffering of animals is wrong***, because it damages us - those created in God’s image.

Can you acknowledge that “in general” hunting does not result in unnecessary suffering of animals?"

 

[pete_29]

It sounds like you pursue situations that contribute to your depression. You should avoid threads that cause you stress and make you feel bad. That is just common sense. If you get sick on boat rides stay off the boat.

Please let the people who find debate/discussion valuable and interesting continue on their course. These threads are great places to share, and we all learn things from others here. It is so valuable to be able to share and try to understand different perpectives.

In my work with animals it is helpful for me to understand the differing perspectives that people have about animals. I appreciate all perspectives offered.

You don’t want to share, you want to judge.

 

[athansor]

Can you acknowledge that “in general” hunting does not result in unnecessary suffering of animals?"

I will acknowledge that hunting results in less suffering than slaughterhouses. I think that a person who only eats meat he or she has hunted is causing far less suffering than someone who buys their meat from the grocery store.

I would also acknowledge that there are some population control issues, due in part to dwindling habitats from sprawl, that hunting may be a solution for.

I’m not ready to acknowledge that hunting is necessary, though. From my experience, I don’t think that eating meat is necessary for survival. I don’t think that animal skin is necessary for clothing. Is it necessary for population control? That, I don’t know. Perhaps there are other solutions out there.

 

[4elise]

I knew this is where this was going. So now hunters are unethical if they don’t absolutely need the meat. Well, I don’t absolutely need the meat, but is very comforting to know that if something bad does happen to me economicly that I have a freezer full of meat to feed my family with. The Church also teaches that you shouldn’t cause your fellow man suffering but your constant criticism of hunters causes me great pain because I am a hunter. I also suffer from depression caused by people like you trying to convince me that some part of my life doesn’t measure up to their standards. You reconcile that with God when you meet Him!!!

I’m sorry you’ve taken my comment so harshly…
I’m sorry to contribute in any way to your depression…
And I think I’ve tried to be really be clear about not trying to judge others - just share what makes sense to me.

 

[4elise]

Can you acknowledge that “in general” hunting does not result in unnecessary suffering of animals?"

I think this again goes back to how some of us define need - if there is a need then it is justified - if there is not a need then the suffering is (in my understanding) unnecessary.

 

[pnewton]

Can you acknowledge that “in general” hunting does not result in unnecessary suffering of animals?"

Considering some of the hunters I know, I would say instead that hunting does not necessarily result in unnecessary suffering and not assume a majority where not statistics exist.

 

[Indyann]

Interesting article in thes AM’s newspaper.

indystar.com/article/20091019/LOCAL/910190348/1001/NEWS/Many+hunters+go+after+deer+to+put+food+on+the+table

“There are some families around here that wouldn’t have meat all winter if it were not for the deer,” said proprietor Norma Crouch, who has checked deer since Ronald Reagan was president.

I know that the fact that some would have no meat all winter is of no concern to some with a certain agenda, but to others it is a grave concern.

And don’t forget the number of deer-related auto accidents that have caused death and injuries.

My own son lost control of his truck to avoid hitting a deer almost three years ago. He went headfirst into a utility pole and suffered a head injury and a compound fracture of his lower femur and ankle.

He still has short term memory loss and it is yet undecided as to whether to amputate his leg below the knee. I have lost count of the number of surgeries and revisions he has had. And he is still in constant pain.

I hit a deer about about three years ago and caused $2,000 damage to the car I was driving.

So for me, the only good deer are either deep in the woods or in someone’s freezer.

 

[chain]

I suspect most hunters have their own unique view of what the their hobby includes.

For me it is time spent outdoors creating and improving habitat - whenever possible this is done with my brothers (since our father passed away, it is one of the annual family gatherings), or with my children.

It is weekends during hunting season with my brothers, or friends, or with my wife and kids - interrupted by a few hours of actually hunting, it is “hunting” with my children, family, friends or just getting away “hunting” by myself). Of course, what is “hunting” it is spending quite hours watching nature move around you. Few non-hunters have ever sat in a blind - seldom moving, not talking for hours - just enjoying nature.

I have listened to and watched a pair of hawks courting each other - one was 20 ft from me. I have seen a bobcat hunt, crouched, 10 ft below my feet (never realizing he was being studied), foxes crisscrossing a field searching for a scent cone, and coyotes watching me (again from 15 ft)? Watching, unheard and unseen is a thrill to me.

When I do occasionally harvest an animal (and after all the habitat and wildlife management - harvest is an appropriate word), I get no thrill from blood lust. I don’t kill for fun. If anything I am sad - but I understand that is the cost of living. Something must die for me to live (abet it could only be plants, but they too must die for us to live). It is part of natural law, and occasionally harvesting an animal reminds me of that. Then my family processes the animal, fully aware of the costs that life has. Perhaps someday one of my sons or daughters will want to participate in the harvest itself (they enjoy the constructive part, turning the dead animal into meat for the freezer and table, but do not yet want to bear the destructive side)- but that is something I will not force on them, and something I did not choose to do till until I was in my mid 20’s (I had recently been downsized and my father asked me to go on one of his hunts).

 

[Marfran]

Because of what man has done, the animals themselves need qualified hunters.
We have destroyed their habitat.
We have destroyed their food sources,
We have destroyed their predators.

They have no where to live but in our back yards, no where to eat but in our gardens and no one to help them move on to their next life.

There are too many old and sick animals at so called “freedom in the wild” because we refuse to take on the responsibility of being the predator.
We have mucked with the natural order which God created for this beautiful world.
Animals, all animals, by the very nature of their creation by God, deserve that order to be restored to them.

Responsible hunting helps to cull the herds.
Eating the meat and utilizing the skins is sharing in God’s creation.

There is a vast difference between responsible hunting and the trophy hunters from the city.
I know. I have a farm. I have seen the difference.

This is a good post. Man*** has ***removed natural predators from nature and created the situations of animal over-populations described by many posters.

We are responsible, our poor stewardship of the animals is responsible, for the “need” for hunting as population management.

I think people have come to enjoy “hunting,” however, and are not interested in actually being good stewards and solving the problems that we have created in any other way, other than “hunting.”

I started this thread specifically to address: ***Killing Animals for “Sport” Is sports hunting ethical? Can we kill animals for the game of it? ***

I was more interested (as a topic for discussion), in the ethics of “killing” for enjoyment, for the game of it, as opposed to other reasons for the hunt.

You do touch on ***responsible hunters vs. trophy hunters ***from the city. Do responsible hunters have any negative feelings about the attitude of trophy hunters, or those who shell out large sums of money for “canned hunts?” Is there an ethical difference on “intent,” or is hunting just hunting?

 

[Marfran]

Of course, what is “hunting” it is spending quite hours watching nature move around you…)

Few non-hunters have ever sat in a blind - seldom moving, not talking for hours - just enjoying nature…)

Actually, I know a lot of non-hunters who have done just this. A lot of nature photographers and other naturalists. Bird watchers are notoriously cuckoo for silently hanging out in the woods, or other locale, just to get a glimpse of a feathered friend.

I have listened to and watched a pair of hawks courting each other - one was 20 ft from me. I have seen a bobcat hunt, crouched, 10 ft below my feet (never realizing he was being studied), foxes crisscrossing a field searching for a scent cone, and coyotes watching me (again from 15 ft)? Watching, unheard and unseen is a thrill to me.)

I have had a city hawk hawk fly within a few feet of me on numerous occasions. I have had a city hawk, who was startled, drop her food literally at my feet. I had been standing beneath the tree, watching her pluck the feathers from a pigeon. I have also been face to face with a red fox, a coyote, raccoons, etc., all within the city.

For many years people would gather in Central Park to catch a glimpse of Pale Male, a red tailed hawk, who nested high on an apartment balconey across from the park.

There are many wonderful sights and experiences of wildlife, even in the city, and killing is not necessarily a component of enjoying nature.

 

[vz71]

There are many wonderful sights and experiences of wildlife, even in the city, and killing is not necessarily a component of enjoying nature.

No but it is a component of hunting.

Let’s not make the primary activity enjoyment of nature.
The primary activity is the hunt. Enjoyment of nature is just one component…not the end.

 

[bigfootbob]

This is a good post. Man*** has ***removed natural predators from nature and created the situations of animal over-populations described by many posters.

We are responsible, our poor stewardship of the animals is responsible, for the “need” for hunting as population management.

I think people have come to enjoy “hunting,” however, and are not interested in actually being good stewards and solving the problems that we have created in any other way, other than “hunting.”

I started this thread specifically to address: ***Killing Animals for “Sport” Is sports hunting ethical? Can we kill animals for the game of it? ***

I was more interested (as a topic for discussion), in the ethics of “killing” for enjoyment, for the game of it, as opposed to other reasons for the hunt.

You do touch on ***responsible hunters vs. trophy hunters ***from the city. Do responsible hunters have any negative feelings about the attitude of trophy hunters, or those who shell out large sums of money for “canned hunts?” Is there an ethical difference on “intent,” or is hunting just hunting?

So I am assuming that you find nothing wrong with responsible hunting, correct?

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is a good post. Man*** has ***removed natural predators from nature and created the situations of animal over-populations described by many posters.

We are responsible, our poor stewardship of the animals is responsible, for the “need” for hunting as population management.

I think people have come to enjoy “hunting,” however, and are not interested in actually being good stewards and solving the problems that we have created in any other way, other than “hunting.”

I started this thread specifically to address: ***Killing Animals for “Sport” Is sports hunting ethical? Can we kill animals for the game of it? ***

I was more interested (as a topic for discussion), in the ethics of “killing” for enjoyment, for the game of it, as opposed to other reasons for the hunt.

I disagree with the proposition that man has eliminated predators. I see them all the time. The one natural predator I do not see, and never hope to see face-to-face is a mountain lion. Their primary prey is deer, but they will kill humans as well.

Now, if the absence of mountain lions has increased the number of deer (and there are certainly a lot of the latter) I vote for the hunters to thin the deer. I do not believe any responsible person would want to see mountain lions return to populated areas. I have read old stories of their human-killing (particularly children) in this part of the country. They were incredibly brazen and bold; sometimes breaking into cabins at night to kill.

I’ll correct myself. I do not want to see the return of feral hogs either. They are predators, and will kill and eat calves, sheep, fawns and children. Unfortunately, I have seen some of those, and have killed them every time I was able.

The presence of some predators is simply incompatible with human safety, and should never be tolerated in populated areas by anyone who has a proper regard for human life.

 

[Indyann]

I disagree with the proposition that man has eliminated predators. I see them all the time. The one natural predator I do not see, and never hope to see face-to-face is a mountain lion. Their primary prey is deer, but they will kill humans as well.

Now, if the absence of mountain lions has increased the number of deer (and there are certainly a lot of the latter) I vote for the hunters to thin the deer. I do not believe any responsible person would want to see mountain lions return to populated areas. I have read old stories of their human-killing (particularly children) in this part of the country. They were incredibly brazen and bold; sometimes breaking into cabins at night to kill.

I’ll correct myself. I do not want to see the return of feral hogs either. They are predators, and will kill and eat calves, sheep, fawns and children. Unfortunately, I have seen some of those, and have killed them every time I was able.

The presence of some predators is simply incompatible with human safety, and should never be tolerated in populated areas by anyone who has a proper regard for human life.

The coyote and red fox are fairly common in this area. There are warnings every so often that a pet has been attacked or killed by one or the other. We are warned to not let small children outside without an adult, if there has been an attack or siting in certain areas.

I guess the only solution is for humans to cease to “go forth and multiply” in order to preserve the animal’s natural habitat.

 

[severus68]

I suspect most hunters have their own unique view of what the their hobby includes.

For me it is time spent outdoors creating and improving habitat - whenever possible this is done with my brothers (since our father passed away, it is one of the annual family gatherings), or with my children.

It is weekends during hunting season with my brothers, or friends, or with my wife and kids - interrupted by a few hours of actually hunting, it is “hunting” with my children, family, friends or just getting away “hunting” by myself). Of course, what is “hunting” it is spending quite hours watching nature move around you. Few non-hunters have ever sat in a blind - seldom moving, not talking for hours - just enjoying nature.

I have listened to and watched a pair of hawks courting each other - one was 20 ft from me. I have seen a bobcat hunt, crouched, 10 ft below my feet (never realizing he was being studied), foxes crisscrossing a field searching for a scent cone, and coyotes watching me (again from 15 ft)? Watching, unheard and unseen is a thrill to me.

When I do occasionally harvest an animal (and after all the habitat and wildlife management - harvest is an appropriate word), I get no thrill from blood lust. I don’t kill for fun. If anything I am sad - but I understand that is the cost of living. Something must die for me to live (abet it could only be plants, but they too must die for us to live). It is part of natural law, and occasionally harvesting an animal reminds me of that. Then my family processes the animal, fully aware of the costs that life has. Perhaps someday one of my sons or daughters will want to participate in the harvest itself (they enjoy the constructive part, turning the dead animal into meat for the freezer and table, but do not yet want to bear the destructive side)- but that is something I will not force on them, and something I did not choose to do till until I was in my mid 20’s (I had recently been downsized and my father asked me to go on one of his hunts).

I must respect you for your respect of nature and God’s creation. You do not enjoy the kill and hunt (harvest) only when you have to.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I disagree with the proposition that man has eliminated predators. I see them all the time. The one natural predator I do not see, and never hope to see face-to-face is a mountain lion. Their primary prey is deer, but they will kill humans as well.

Now, if the absence of mountain lions has increased the number of deer (and there are certainly a lot of the latter) I vote for the hunters to thin the deer. I do not believe any responsible person would want to see mountain lions return to populated areas. I have read old stories of their human-killing (particularly children) in this part of the country. They were incredibly brazen and bold; sometimes breaking into cabins at night to kill.

I’ll correct myself. I do not want to see the return of feral hogs either. They are predators, and will kill and eat calves, sheep, fawns and children. Unfortunately, I have seen some of those, and have killed them every time I was able.
The presence of some predators is simply incompatible with human safety, and should never be tolerated in populated areas by anyone who has a proper regard for human life.

I just saw a documentary about feral hogs. They are scary, they have been becoming more and more agressive, they destroy farmland and crops. And I beleive they might not even be edible, because of their enormous size. (I might be wrong though).

 

[JohnPaul64]

To those of you who say its unethical. Are you a better person because you buy your meat neatly wrapped in a grocery store?? That animal wasn’t born that way. I am from Pennsylvania and I’m a hunter. Yes I do enjoy hunting very much and do love the sport. I eat all I harvest. I take my role as a hunter very seriously. Hunters do more in nature conservation than anyone who is in PETA. If you left deer herds un-managed they would devastate our woodlands by over browsing. Geese are a huge problem here because they are not hunted enough and are ruining parks and lakes everywhere here. Their feces is everywhere. Please don’t be hypocrites and say hunting is unethical and if you feel this way, next time your at Burger King eating a whopper think about where it came from. Do we stop driving because animals get killed by vehicles??

I am in no way a trohpy hunter. I love being outdoors. An experience I had yesterday to share. I was hunting with my muzzleloader for a doe only season and was watching a well used trail when something I caught out of the corner of my eye got my attention, I turned and not 30 feet away was a beautiful 8 point buck staring at me, we stood there staring at each other for a couple of minutes and he just walked away unalarmed like he knew I couldn’t shoot him and paused for a moment and looked at me again then slowly walked away. It was awesome. It was two of Gods creatures sharing a moment in the woods. Thats why I hunt. I’ve had many experiences like this with different animals that I cherish the most. One time while bowhunting I watched an albino doe with twin fawns taking milk from here right under the tree I was in. Hunters are stereotyped but in truth our woodlands would be ruined with out them and animals would suffer starvation if herds were not thinned. In Pa. hunters are pretty much the only predator a deer has to face. Sure some animals do hunt deer like coyote and bear but they prey on fawns only and have minimal impact. That is the reality of it. Hunters are conservationists.