killing in the military

[fix]

777:

St. Pual wasn’t scared when his turn came.Ditto for the apostles.

What if the Samaritan came by the man while he was in the process of being beaten, should he have waited until the man was murdered before acting?

 

[Giver]

*** Continued from PREVIOUS Post ***
Oh, really? Then why did God ordered the Israelites to: “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). See also Deuteronomy 20:16-17, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them–the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites–as the LORD your God has commanded you.”

Sure sounds to me like God is telling people to kill despite the fifth commandment.

Exodus 17:16 proclaims, “He said, For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation." Also, 1 Samuel 15:18, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”

So, obviously God is not against all war or killing.

And before you start quoting Jesus and MISUNDERSTANDING what He was saying, recall that Jesus is always in PERFECT AGREEMENT with the Father as noted in John 10:30. So you cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament because according to Malachi 3:6 & James 1:17, God does not change. God has always been absolutely perfect - God can become neither better or worse. God does not change; therefore what God says is right, or wrong, is for all time.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “there is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Some wars are more “just” than others, but all wars are ultimately the result of sin. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for Godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to the conflict, and praying for minimum casualties – on both sides of the conflict (Philippians 4:6-7).

Well you sound like a good Jew. Christ completed the law. To be a Christian you need to follow Jesus. Ask Him.
Giver

 

[Sir_Knight]

Giver:

The world needs an army, but a Christian is not of the world, and can’t be part of the world. (John 15:18-20) “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me before you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you do not belong to the world, therefore the world hates you.”

Then why did Paul describes Epaphroditus, a fellow Christian as a “fellow soldier” (Philippians 2:25)?

Also recall that Jesus marveled when a Roman Centurion (officer in charge of one hundred soldiers) approached Him. The Centurion’s response to Jesus indicated his clear understanding of authority, as well as his faith in Jesus (Matthew 8:5-13). Jesus did not denounce his career. It should also be pointed out that the Centurions mentioned in the New Testament are praised as Christians, God-fearers, and men of good character (Matthew 8:5,8,13; 27:54; Mark 15:39,44-45; Luke 7:2,6; 23:47; Acts 10:1,22; 21:32; 22:25-26; 23:17,23; 24:23; 27:1,6,11,31,43; 28:16). If it is sinful to be in an army, thay wouldn’t have been said of them.

The Bible does address serving in the military, directly and implicitly. The Christian men and women who serve their country with character, dignity, and honor, can rest assured that the civic duty they perform is condoned and respected by our Sovereign God. Why do soldiers give up the comforts of home for a dangerous job with low pay? They do it for the same reason that a firefighter runs into a burning building instead of away from it. They do it for the same reason that a police officer runs toward the sound of gunfire. They do it for us.

 

[777]

*** Continued from PREVIOUS Post ***

Oh, really? Then why did God ordered the Israelites to: “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). See also Deuteronomy 20:16-17, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them–the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites–as the LORD your God has commanded you.”

Sure sounds to me like God is telling people to kill despite the fifth commandment.

Exodus 17:16 proclaims, “He said, For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation." Also, 1 Samuel 15:18, “Go and completely destroy those evil people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”

So, obviously God is not against all war or killing.

And before you start quoting Jesus and MISUNDERSTANDING what He was saying, recall that Jesus is always in PERFECT AGREEMENT with the Father as noted in John 10:30. So you cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament because according to Malachi 3:6 & James 1:17, God does not change. God has always been absolutely perfect - God can become neither better or worse. God does not change; therefore what God says is right, or wrong, is for all time.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “there is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Some wars are more “just” than others, but all wars are ultimately the result of sin. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for Godly wisdom for the leaders, including even Congress, praying for the safety of the military, praying for quick resolution to the conflict, and praying for minimum casualties – on both sides of the conflict, even if it means bring pain and hurt on the enemy, even denying them a chance to repent when they die, to make the enemy say “I quit,” even if it means death. (Philippians 4:6-7).

Can we close the thread before it gets out of hand? It’s getting depressing.

 

[estesbob]

Giver:

There are people who believe their church has the authority to change the Word of God. Do you really believe that Peter had the right to change the Word of God? Do you think he would have allowed any teaching that wasn’t taught by Jesus? Jesus became man and died on a cross to give us a Word from the Father and we dare change that Word? From my understanding the Christian Church didn’t allow for war of any kind, just or not, for three hundred years. Then the Church changed the Word of God. What a mistake that was and is.

(John 12: 47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn Him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects Me and refuses My words has his judge already, the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.

Actually the false Doctrine of Sola Scriptura encurages people to change the word of God in any way that suits them. All they have to do is find a Scripture verse they think backs up what they beleive and for them the discussion is over. Like you they can ignore the rest of scripture and the teachings of all who went before them. Fortunately Christ did not force everyone to have to start from scratch and figure out everything by themselves-he gave us the One True Church and the magestrium to guide us.

BTW-to embrace Sola Sciprtura one must acknowledge Guttenberg as co-redeemer with Christ! After all how could one adhere to Solas scriptura when there was no scriture to read???

 

[777]

Steven Merten:

Hello 777,

Jesus said that He brought peace to the world. Where is the peace that Jesus brought to the world? Have you seen it anywhere?

Jesus brought spiritual peace between God and man and woman to the world. Jesus tells us He does not bring physical peace to the world but a sword and division.

Isaih is speaking of the New Jerusalem; Heaven.

**NAB MAT 10:34 **

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man or woman ‘against his/her father or mother, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’ "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;

So?

 

[estesbob]

Giver:

Well you sound like a good Jew. Christ completed the law. To be a Christian you need to follow Jesus. Ask Him.
Giver

So Sir knight-a 4th degree Knight of Columbus is a “good Jew” because he doesnt embrace the false doctrines you adhere so dearly to???

Most Jews i know, BTW, have a better understandng of scripture than you do.

 

[777]

Sir Knight:

Then why did Paul describes Epaphroditus, a fellow Christian as a “fellow soldier” (Philippians 2:25)?

Also recall that Jesus marveled when a Roman Centurion (officer in charge of one hundred soldiers) approached Him. The Centurion’s response to Jesus indicated his clear understanding of authority, as well as his faith in Jesus (Matthew 8:5-13). Jesus did not denounce his career. It should also be pointed out that the Centurions mentioned in the New Testament are praised as Christians, God-fearers, and men of good character (Matthew 8:5,8,13; 27:54; Mark 15:39,44-45; Luke 7:2,6; 23:47; Acts 10:1,22; 21:32; 22:25-26; 23:17,23; 24:23; 27:1,6,11,31,43; 28:16). If it is sinful to be in an army, thay wouldn’t have been said of them.

The Bible does address serving in the military, directly and implicitly. The Christian men and women who serve the world with character, dignity, and honor, can rest assured that the civic duty they perform is condoned and respected by our Sovereign God. Why do soldiers give up the comforts of home for a dangerous job with low pay? They do it for the same reason that a firefighter runs into a burning building instead of away from it. They do it for the same reason that a police officer runs toward the sound of gunfire. They do it for us.

it’s all a waste. Do they repent before they die? Any life is valued, but not through hurting people just to save another. The world is no one’s but Satan’s.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Giver:

Well you sound like a good Jew. Christ completed the law. To be a Christian you need to follow Jesus. Ask Him.

And as I said before, to follow Jesus, you need to follow those that He turned His flock over to and their successors (John 21:15-17) and their position on this matter is found in the CCC which you disagree with. By disagreeing with those that Jesus left to shepard His flock in His place, you are in effect disagreeing with Jesus Himself.

 

[Giver]

fix:

His word was never changed by His Church. Your understanding is where the error enters.

Doesn’t the Catholic Church allow a Catholic person to be in an army? Doesn’t the Church accept a so-called just war? These teaching don’t change the Word of God?

 

[fix]

Giver:

Doesn’t the Catholic Church allow a Catholic person to be in an army? Doesn’t the Church accept a so-called just war? These teaching don’t change the Word of God?

The Church allows those things because God allows them. Your understanding is the issue. The teachings are not in conflict with scripture, your interpretation of scripture is the issue.

How am I to understand you are the correct authority?

 

[Giver]

Sir Knight:

And as I said before, to follow Jesus, you need to follow those that He turned His flock over to and their successors (John 21:15-17) and their position on this matter is found in the CCC which you disagree with. By disagreeing with those that Jesus left to shepard His flock in His place, you are in effect disagreeing with Jesus Himself.

Ask Jesus if the Catholic Church had the right to change the Word of God.

 

[fix]

Giver:

Ask Jesus if the Catholic Church had the right to change the Word of God.

A better question would be to ask Jesus if we each have the gift of infallibility and if He is pleased there is so much fragmentation and division within the body of Christ.

Private interpretation leads to division, among other errors.

This thread is about killing in the military. The Church has spoken on this issue.

 

[Sir_Knight]

777:

it’s all a waste. Do they repent before they die? Any life is valued, but not through hurting people just to save another.

So, are you saying that God commanded people to do something wrong when He ordered them to kill and wage war: * Deuteronomy 20:16-17 … “do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them–the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites–as the LORD your God has commanded you.”

• 1 Samuel 15:18, … “Go and completely destroy those evil people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”
  … And since God does not change from generation to generation according to Malachi 3:6 & James 1:17, what God says is right, or wrong, is for all time.

 

[Sir_Knight]

fix:

A better question would be to ask Jesus if we each have the gift of infallibility and if He is pleased there is so much fragmentation and division within the body of Christ.

Private interpretation leads to division, among other errors.

This thread is about killing in the military. The Church has spoken on this issue.

Just to add to what fix said … just before He was crusified, Jesus prayed for unitity among His followers. By disagreeing with those that Jesus left in charge, you are causing division among His followers – the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus wanted and prayed for.

 

[estesbob]

Sir Knight:

Just to add to what fix said … just before He was crusified, Jesus prayed for unitity among His followers. By disagreeing with those that Jesus left in charge, you are causing division among His followers – the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus wanted and prayed for.

More souls have been out at peril by the twin false Doctrines of “Sola Scriptura” and “Sola Fidelis” than all the other false teachings over the last 2,000 years combined

 

[Steven_Merten]

777:

it’s all a waste. Do they repent before they die? Any life is valued, but not through hurting people just to save another. The world is no one’s but Satan’s.

Hello 777,

If religious terrorists were coming to harm Mary, what would Jesus do? Would He tell His Apostles to put their swords back in thier sheaths? Or would He command His Apostles to fight to protect His mother?

Would you call 911 if your daughter was being raped, beaten and murdered or would you stand by idly in order not to hurt the murderer?

Protecting the innocent is not a “waste”.

 

[777]

Sir Knight:

So, are you saying that God commanded people to do something wrong when He ordered them to kill and wage war:

• Deuteronomy 20:16-17 … “do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them–the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites–as the LORD your God has commanded you.”
• 1 Samuel 15:18, … “Go and completely destroy those evil people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”

… And since God does not change from generation to generation according to Malachi 3:6 & James 1:17, what God says is right, or wrong, is for all time.

But much of it was in the old testament

 

[777]

Steven Merten:

Hello 777,

If religious terrorists were coming to harm Mary, what would Jesus do? Would He tell His Apostles to put their swords back in thier sheaths? Or would He command His Apostles to fight to protect His mother?

Would you call 911 if your daughter was being raped, beaten and murdered or would you stand by idly in order not to hurt the murderer?

Protecting the innocent is not a “waste”.

There were no terrorists in the days of the bible. No terrorists ever came to harm Mary, because that never happened.Besides, I have no daughter. And even so, hurting a murderer won’t bring those I love back at all.

 

[Sir_Knight]

777:

But much of it was in the old testament

And scripture has it in Malachi 3:6 & James 1:17 that God does not change from generation to generation. So, if it was okay 3000+ years ago to “make war on them until you have wiped them out and completely destroy those evil people” (1 Samuel 15:18), then it is okay to do so now because God does not change.

777:

hurting a murderer won’t bring those I love back at all.

No, but it can prevent that murderer from killing someone else.