killing small animals

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I think we somehow justify or rationalize killing and even the way humans treat creatures. I know someone who insists that animals don’t feel pain, and since they are “dumb” and “stupid” that somehow makes it ok.
She says things like “turkeys are so dumb they don’t know when to come in from the rain.”
And “squirrels are too stupid to get out of the road, they deserve to die.”

I watched a video once with lab animals being tortured in experiments. If they don’t feel pain, why would they scream and try to get away? These people nailed a guinea pig to a board and then tried different “pain killer” medicines on it. Hunh?

Now they are proving that animal “intelligence” is just not measured the same way human intelligence is.

When I used to ride horses, the teacher told us horses are stupid and don’t feel pain. Now I know he said that to justify hitting them. He would whip them mercilessly, saying their flesh us so tough they can’t feel it. I asked him why they twitched when flies landed on them, and he thought I was stupid.
Later I read that doctors believed mental patients felt no pain. People will say anything to rationalize their behavior toward helpless or weak people and animals.

I had pet mice as a kid, and the babies, called “pups” really do cry and squeak when they’re hungry. It was fascinating to me, because they have all the same organs we do, only teeny tiny. Mice are the smallest mammal.

I think they’re awesome. Actually, I think their Creator is awesome.

I hope I don’t get in trouble for moving this topic up a notch. Or more…
I think you’ve definitely raised some valid points there. Interestingly, my username comes from that of an alien creature (basically, a baby swamp monster) that appeared in a Doctor Who story (one of the old Tom Baker ones), and which almost ended up becoming a victim of vivisection itself. Due to its innocent childish curiosity taking it someplace it really should not have gone - on board a spaceship - it ended up being captured by humans, who, callous to its obvious terror of them (and despite the Doctor’s efforts to get them to leave it alone), handed it over to their chief scientist for examination. He decided that the best thing to do with it would be cut its head open and dissect its brain while it was fully conscious, all in the name of science! At the last minute, however, it managed to break free of its restraints, throttle the aforementioned creep of a scientist (whose methods would have surely made Joseph Mengele proud), and then trash his laboratory, its rampage only ending when it foolishly drove its fist through a video screen and electrocuted itself. Truly, its suffering was the most heartrending thing I’d ever seen on that show, and, even now, it still bothers me to think about it. 😦 What made it even worse was the fact that, after the creature had died, the scientist’s superiors, who’d given him the authorization to conduct his perverse “experiment” (despite the fact that at least one of them had a child himself!), dismissed the creature’s behaviour as merely more evidence of what a bunch of “mindless brutes” its kind were (as if any of them would have acted with any more restraint under the same circumstances! :mad:).

Anyway, moving onto the original topic of this thread, I have to admit that since studying invertebrate zoology as part of a (sadly failed) attempt to get a Science Degree at university many years ago now, I’ve developed a lot more respect for insects and other “creepy-crawlies”, and there are very few kinds of these creatures that I’ll kill nowadays. Flies, mosquitoes and cockroaches are probably the only insects I’ll still kill on sight, mainly because they spread disease*, and (in the case of the first two) can be really, really irritating. Even there, though, I’ll still endeavour to despatch them as humanely as possible: usually by spraying them and then squashing them. With other insects and similar creatures I find inside, I’ll trap and release them, or, if they’re not too numerous, just let them be (really, most of them don’t bother me at all). One type of insect for which I’ll make a partial exception is ants, which I’ll leave alone (to the point of going out of my way to step over trails of them), unless I see them swarming all over some other poor insect that’s still alive; in that case, I’ll “euthanize” their prey by stepping on it (I’ve put a lot of bees out of their misery by doing that), invariably killing quite a few of the ants in the process as well (serves them right!). I’ll also kill redback spiders (basically, the Australian version of the black widow), if they’re getting too numerous: again by employing the “spray and stomp” method. The last time I did this, though, I felt really lousy because insect sprays really do do horrible things to the things you use them on. (They kill in much the same way that nerve gases do: by destroying an enzyme which degrades the neurotransmitter that causes nerve cells to fire, thereby causing said nerve cells (or, more accurately, the synapses between them) to become permanently “switched on”. That’s why, for example, flies buzz around like crazy when you spray them.)

*For this reason, I’d have no qualms about killing things like fleas either. Hey, I’m not going to show any mercy to something that caused the Black Death!
 
What’s your secret method to protect your house and yard against rats without killing them?
Perhaps I’m not being clear on the difference between rats and mice. Good ways of insulating and sealing your house, never leaving food outside, using natural plants to drive them away can get rid of rats. Good maintenance, such as clearing gutters, repairing siding, raking leaves and not leaving nesting materials near the house can also keep them away. Mostly because it doesn’t take a 1/8inch crack to let them in…they’re just larger…

Squirrels can be harder but if one makes a commitment not to feed or water birds then they usually don’t give you much trouble.

Mice, on the other hand, have to be killed. Mostly they end up killing themselves, though.
 
Gee. It took till the third page of a kindness-to-animals thread for this to be posted. That must be a CAF record.
I fail to see why abortion should not be under discussion at ALL times.

GE believes the lives of lab rats are more important than human babies. Do you?
 
I fail to see why abortion should not be under discussion at ALL times.

GE believes the lives of lab rats are more important than human babies. Do you?
Because this is a catholic forum where we have 10,000 other threads to discuss it.
 
I have no problem with killing an invader in my home, which is what the bugs are.

I have no problem doing it in front of my children, because I give them antibiotics to kill the bacteria in them…so it’s really the same concept. After all, I tell them that the antibiotic kills the bad bacteria.

Outside, only if necessary in the case of flies, pests, or an attacking animal (hasn’t happened yet, but you never know). Generally most truly small animals can be scared off.
 
I think MoniCatholic and I live in the same world. 😉

We raise chickens for the meat. They keep the ticks under control in the yard as well. We have hens for their eggs and I keep a garden. On slaughter day, we all pitch in. ( btw, if you chop the heads off and hang them by the feet, they don’t run and all the blood runs out, which makes the meat better…) My daughters and I don’t do the actual killing, but we de-feather them, clean them, and package them for the freezer.

I have 8 barn cats that keep the mice away, but those possums and raccoons have no fear. No matter how meticulous I am about the garbage, the pet food, the compost, they come for the chickens and the eggs. Waking up in the morning to a yard full of decimated chickens is hard on a kid not to mention a Mom. I keep a .22 pistol just for this purpose. They carry rabies, they make a mess, and I don’t want them anywhere near my house. If they come near, they are dispatched without hesitation.

The wild turkeys stroll through my yard without fear, my dogs think they’re just funny looking chickens. (they don’t bother them either.) The deer usually stick to their hosta bed/salad bar that I planted especially for them.

I also volunteer at the local Birthright office to help the women who come in there choose life. 🤷

Steph
 
I think you’ve definitely raised some valid points there. Interestingly, my username comes from that of an alien creature (basically, a baby swamp monster) that appeared in a Doctor Who story (one of the old Tom Baker ones), and which almost ended up becoming a victim of vivisection itself. Due to its innocent childish curiosity taking it someplace it really should not have gone - on board a spaceship - it ended up being captured by humans, who, callous to its obvious terror of them (and despite the Doctor’s efforts to get them to leave it alone), handed it over to their chief scientist for examination. He decided that the best thing to do with it would be cut its head open and dissect its brain while it was fully conscious, all in the name of science! At the last minute, however, it managed to break free of its restraints, throttle the aforementioned creep of a scientist (whose methods would have surely made Joseph Mengele proud), and then trash his laboratory, its rampage only ending when it foolishly drove its fist through a video screen and electrocuted itself. Truly, its suffering was the most heartrending thing I’d ever seen on that show, and, even now, it still bothers me to think about it. 😦 What made it even worse was the fact that, after the creature had died, the scientist’s superiors, who’d given him the authorization to conduct his perverse “experiment” (despite the fact that at least one of them had a child himself!), dismissed the creature’s behaviour as merely more evidence of what a bunch of “mindless brutes” its kind were (as if any of them would have acted with any more restraint under the same circumstances! :mad:).

Anyway, moving onto the original topic of this thread, I have to admit that since studying invertebrate zoology as part of a (sadly failed) attempt to get a Science Degree at university many years ago now, I’ve developed a lot more respect for insects and other “creepy-crawlies”, and there are very few kinds of these creatures that I’ll kill nowadays. Flies, mosquitoes and cockroaches are probably the only insects I’ll still kill on sight, mainly because they spread disease*, and (in the case of the first two) can be really, really irritating. Even there, though, I’ll still endeavour to despatch them as humanely as possible: usually by spraying them and then squashing them. With other insects and similar creatures I find inside, I’ll trap and release them, or, if they’re not too numerous, just let them be (really, most of them don’t bother me at all). One type of insect for which I’ll make a partial exception is ants, which I’ll leave alone (to the point of going out of my way to step over trails of them), unless I see them swarming all over some other poor insect that’s still alive; in that case, I’ll “euthanize” their prey by stepping on it (I’ve put a lot of bees out of their misery by doing that), invariably killing quite a few of the ants in the process as well (serves them right!). I’ll also kill redback spiders (basically, the Australian version of the black widow), if they’re getting too numerous: again by employing the “spray and stomp” method. The last time I did this, though, I felt really lousy because insect sprays really do do horrible things to the things you use them on. (They kill in much the same way that nerve gases do: by destroying an enzyme which degrades the neurotransmitter that causes nerve cells to fire, thereby causing said nerve cells (or, more accurately, the synapses between them) to become permanently “switched on”. That’s why, for example, flies buzz around like crazy when you spray them.)

*For this reason, I’d have no qualms about killing things like fleas either. Hey, I’m not going to show any mercy to something that caused the Black Death!
I learned about the horrible death by spraying in zoology many years ago. Acetylcholine esterase? They twitch to death. Interesting story from Dr Who, by the way. We can be so arrogant.
 
Because this is a catholic forum where we have 10,000 other threads to discuss it.
I’m at the point in my life where comparing killing animals to killing babies is like comparing apples to oranges. They are not enough alike to compare.
The stuff about sacrificing animals to worship God went right past me, too. It’s 2010.
 
I think we somehow justify or rationalize killing and even the way humans treat creatures. I know someone who insists that animals don’t feel pain, and since they are “dumb” and “stupid” that somehow makes it ok.
She says things like “turkeys are so dumb they don’t know when to come in from the rain.”
And “squirrels are too stupid to get out of the road, they deserve to die.”

I watched a video once with lab animals being tortured in experiments. If they don’t feel pain, why would they scream and try to get away? These people nailed a guinea pig to a board and then tried different “pain killer” medicines on it. Hunh?

Now they are proving that animal “intelligence” is just not measured the same way human intelligence is.

I read that doctors believed mental patients felt no pain. People will say anything to rationalize their behavior toward helpless or weak people and animals.

I had pet mice as a kid, and the babies, called “pups” really do cry and squeak when they’re hungry. It was fascinating to me, because they have all the same organs we do, only teeny tiny. Mice are the smallest mammal.
Let’s get a few things straight:
  • the Fifth Commandment prohibits killing innocent humans. It has nothing to do with killing animals. which does not have to be “rationalised” to justify it. It’s fine to avoid killing animals as far as you can if it makes you feel squeamish, but please don’t imply that there is a moral imperative to avoid killing animals unless they attack you (as there is re killing humans).
  • unnecessary cruelty to animals is forbidden by the Seventh Commandment which obliges us to care for all Creation - animal, vegetable and mineral.
  • in principle there is nothing wrong with conducting experiments on animals by inflicting pain on them in order to test pain-relieving drugs and treatments. To call this “torture” is anthropomorphising.
  • no matter how much some animals may resemble humans in some ways, there is a fundamental ontological difference between people and animals -we are not just very intelligent animals.
  • no animal has a “right to life”, and no animal “deserves to die”. Animals are amoral.
btw shrews are the smallest mammals.
 
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