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Boy_Wonder
Guest
Wise advice. Aptly stated.
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pensmama87
Guest
My boyfriend whose family did this was American, had been for many generations. Their ethnic background was German - not one you’d stereotypically pick for this kind of affection. And yet, there it was! I actually found it kind of refreshing, but who knows what other people thought when they saw two brothers kiss.
The point is that you can’t know for sure. I know it’s easy to make assumptions, but as Christians we’re not to assume the worst about people - but should strive to do the opposite.
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seepamrun
Guest
I truly appreciate everyone who’s taken time to weigh in on this. I won’t complain, because I asked for your opinions, right? But I want to again emphasize that the two men in question are not family members or from another culture. As I said before, they are stereotypically homosexual in every sense.
In fact, let me shed just a little more light here. We participated in the recent “Synod on the Family” survey, during which time our pastor asked a number of us to meet with him personally to answer the survey questions. When we came to the questions covering homosexuality and so-called same-sex “marriage” it was unanimous that everyone around the table understands the Church’s teachings on these issues but felt that a minority of Catholics in our parish either do not know the full teachings or choose to ignore them. Our pastor then revealed to us that at least “one couple” he knew of in our parish was homosexual and that this particular couple sat “in the front pews” at Sunday Mass and sincerely wanted to be “accepted” by us. I am 99.999% sure these two men are that couple. They had never (that we know of) exhibited that behavior before, and it makes me wonder if they have somehow gotten a signal that they can get by with it now. Anyway, I hope that narrows down the issue for you.
I am not judging these men; it’s not my place and I have my own sins to worry about. I wouldn’t have given their presence in Church a second thought had they not stepped over the line by kissing each other during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and where families and kids could see. I think something needs to be said or done by the Church hierarchy to strongly, strongly discourage it. I was hoping to hear some of you echo that sentiment. It looks like I am in the minority on this. I will continue to pray for discernment. God bless you all.
In fact, let me shed just a little more light here. We participated in the recent “Synod on the Family” survey, during which time our pastor asked a number of us to meet with him personally to answer the survey questions. When we came to the questions covering homosexuality and so-called same-sex “marriage” it was unanimous that everyone around the table understands the Church’s teachings on these issues but felt that a minority of Catholics in our parish either do not know the full teachings or choose to ignore them. Our pastor then revealed to us that at least “one couple” he knew of in our parish was homosexual and that this particular couple sat “in the front pews” at Sunday Mass and sincerely wanted to be “accepted” by us. I am 99.999% sure these two men are that couple. They had never (that we know of) exhibited that behavior before, and it makes me wonder if they have somehow gotten a signal that they can get by with it now. Anyway, I hope that narrows down the issue for you.
I am not judging these men; it’s not my place and I have my own sins to worry about. I wouldn’t have given their presence in Church a second thought had they not stepped over the line by kissing each other during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and where families and kids could see. I think something needs to be said or done by the Church hierarchy to strongly, strongly discourage it. I was hoping to hear some of you echo that sentiment. It looks like I am in the minority on this. I will continue to pray for discernment. God bless you all.
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mjwise
Guest
Since your pastor already appears to know about them, why not ask him directly to address this issue with the couple in question? Relieve yourself of the burden of thinking about this. However, do not be surprised or disappointed if he declines to issue an ultimatum to the couple in question to stop doing it.
Under no circumstance would I recommend acting as the pew police in this matter, but I think you already understood that.
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coachdennis
Guest
OP,
I am troubled by this and let me first say that you appeared to have done nothing wrong.
I’m more concern with the priest’s behavior.
Why did the priest feel he needed to reveal this? Granted he did not violate any privacy seal, but I am disturbed that he would share this with a group. What if the topic was annulment and he spoke about a couple that was having a particular difficult time, or even marital problems? Did you and the others need to know this? For what purpose? Now it sounds like you are all playing “Guess who the queers are!” and perhaps sometime in the future your parish will play “who’s not eligible to approach the Communion table”
If he knows that they want to be “sincerely” accepted (the words you wrote), it is his responsibility to speak with the couple directly
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JimG
Guest
If this is the case it really is a problem for the priest. On the one hand, I presume, he does not want to reject the couple; on the other hand, he does not wish to give tacit acceptance to a relationship which mimics marriage, any more than he would want to give tacit approval to a cohabiting couple. Giving tacit approval to a de facto gay marriage would set a (wrong) example for the parish.
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mek42
Guest
I find myself wondering whether the same gesture between an unmarried teenage heterosexual couple would lead to the conclusion that they must be fornicating.
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JimG
Guest
It would certainly be an inappropriate gesture at Mass.
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mek42
Guest
Why?
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chevalier
Guest
The kiss of peace is liturgical. Increasing its PDA level on account of mutual atrraction doesn’t look like a good idea.
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JimG
Guest
On occasion, on a Saturday evening Mass before prom night at the high school, one will find a large number of young couples dressed for prom and attending Mass beforehand. Thankfully, at the sign of peace, it is not their custom to kiss. A public display of affection is really not a liturgical function. Although some have taken the sign of peace as an excuse to exchange public displays of personal affection, that is not its purpose.
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biggybig
Guest
We have obligations to our fellow Catholics to correct each other in love, so it IS our business. I would ask a priest to see if is appropriate.
People use that passage incorrectly all the time. That passage, matthew 7:1-5 is about hypocrisy. So fellow Catholics, correct each other in love! We are a community after all.
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biggybig
Guest
Well, I agree with you. Mass is about worshiping God and allowing sinful behavior in the church seems very wrong to me. I am strictly speaking about the behavior, not the people. Intent of the behavior does matter. We have an obligation as Catholics to respond to what we believe appropriately in accordance with church teachings. Unfortunately, some people to lack the fortitude to take a stand; instead, peoples’ “feelings” take center stage.
In response to what you said about judging them. Do not be afraid! We are obligated to help fellow Catholics follow in their faith, and correcting is part of that. We just should not be correcting a person if we are having the same issue. It would not be appropriate. People use that verse wrong ALL THE TIME Matthew 7:1-5. How are we judging when we are mearly pointing out the law. The law, which states what God judges as right behavior.
God Bless
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maryjk
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Cristiano
Guest
I think that you got it all wrong here and you are judging the intent. A man kissing another man, even on the lips, is not intrinsically sinful. If it were sinful a lot of Eastern priests would sin during the divine liturgy. You and the OP are making assumptions based on gossip (yes, the priest was gossiping if he shared the information in the way it was described) and on stereotypes (as stated by the OP) instead of facts and that is being a false witness too.
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agnes_therese
Guest
So only certain people can exchange a kiss of peace? Who decides who can do so, and who is being sinful if they do?
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