Kissling Dares Catholic Hierarchy to Excommunicate Her for Abortion Advocacy

[Tom317]

From a PR standpoint, officially excommunicating Kissling could be a bad move.

Right now, it seems, she is preaching to no one. She no longer has her position as the president of a fine sounding but “on-paper-only” organization. She is no longer sought out for “pithy” sound bites (or “type bites”} from the press.

IMHO, official excommunication would give her the credentials of a martyrdom against the “tyranny of a male dominate, oppressive to womyn” organization. She also doesn’t deserve official excommunication. That is usually reserved for bigger fish. She’s nothing but a lone minnow in the ocean.

Just my :twocents:

So what? Who cares if marginal Catholics and non-Catholics take it wrong?

 

[vern_humphrey]

So what? Who cares if marginal Catholics and non-Catholics take it wrong?

I don’t know if it is possible to strengthen some marginal Catholics, or to convert some non-Catholics. But I do know that it is possible to bolster and encourate faithful Catholics – and that’s what the Bishops should be doing.

Beyond that, my personal experience is that many Protestants who have been raised to suspect and distrust Catholics then to change their attitudes when they see Catholics operating crisis pregnancy centers, caring for young girls who are pregnant, helping them with the expenses of the new baby and so on.

If we do more, we’ll get more respect.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So what? Who cares if marginal Catholics and non-Catholics take it wrong?

I don’t know if it is possible to strengthen some marginal Catholics, or to convert some non-Catholics. But I do know that it is possible to bolster and encourate faithful Catholics – and that’s what the Bishops should be doing.

Beyond that, my personal experience is that many Protestants who have been raised to suspect and distrust Catholics then to change their attitudes when they see Catholics operating crisis pregnancy centers, caring for young girls who are pregnant, helping them with the expenses of the new baby and so on.

If we do more, we’ll get more respect.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So what? Who cares if marginal Catholics and non-Catholics take it wrong?

I don’t know if it is possible to strengthen some marginal Catholics, or to convert some non-Catholics. But I do know that it is possible to bolster and encourate faithful Catholics – and that’s what the Bishops should be doing.

Beyond that, my personal experience is that many Protestants who have been raised to suspect and distrust Catholics then to change their attitudes when they see Catholics operating crisis pregnancy centers, caring for young girls who are pregnant, helping them with the expenses of the new baby and so on.

If we do more, we’ll get more respect.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So what? Who cares if marginal Catholics and non-Catholics take it wrong?

I don’t know if it is possible to strengthen some marginal Catholics, or to convert some non-Catholics. But I do know that it is possible to bolster and encourate faithful Catholics – and that’s what the Bishops should be doing.

Beyond that, my personal experience is that many Protestants who have been raised to suspect and distrust Catholics then to change their attitudes when they see Catholics operating crisis pregnancy centers, caring for young girls who are pregnant, helping them with the expenses of the new baby and so on.

If we do more, we’ll get more respect.

 

[Tom317]

I don’t know if it is possible to strengthen some marginal Catholics, or to convert some non-Catholics. But I do know that it is possible to bolster and encourate faithful Catholics – and that’s what the Bishops should be doing.

Beyond that, my personal experience is that many Protestants who have been raised to suspect and distrust Catholics then to change their attitudes when they see Catholics operating crisis pregnancy centers, caring for young girls who are pregnant, helping them with the expenses of the new baby and so on.

If we do more, we’ll get more respect.

I agree, we need to do everything we can, which inlcudes using just actions when required.

 

[David_Paul]

Not only Catholics who have abortions but those directly involved (such a driving a woman to the abortion clinic) are authmatically excommunicated.

I read her essay in Salon. She claims canon law doesn’t say that. She goes on to make snide comments about how women are more “educated” today and know what the church says on the matter is not true.

I asked at a Catholic sub-forum on a large Christian site for a definitive reply and got nothing but an attack on Lifesite.

I would assume it would be automatic. I would hope that would be the case. But I’m not Catholic. I don’t know. I get what I know from the media (which is on Kissling’s side mainly) and those Catholics who choose to correct the Catholics who hold the views Kissling does.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I read her essay in Salon. She claims canon law doesn’t say that. She goes on to make snide comments about how women are more “educated” today and know what the church says on the matter is not true.

I asked at a Catholic sub-forum on a large Christian site for a definitive reply and got nothing but an attack on Lifesite.

I would assume it would be automatic. I would hope that would be the case. But I’m not Catholic. I don’t know. I get what I know from the media (which is on Kissling’s side mainly) and those Catholics who choose to correct the Catholics who hold the views Kissling does.

It is automatic. A Catholic who materially participates in an abortion incurrs excommunication, latae sententae – by the act, itself. No formal action by the Church is required – in fact, the Church need not know about it, If the person receives Communion, they gain no grace thereby, but instead commit a mortal sin.

However, I wish the Bishops would be as stern toward people known to have formally supported abortion as they are to people who have, say gotten remarried, and formally refuse them until they change their ways and seek forgiveness.

 

[David_Paul]

It is automatic. A Catholic who materially participates in an abortion incurrs excommunication, latae sententae – by the act, itself. No formal action by the Church is required – in fact, the Church need not know about it, If the person receives Communion, they gain no grace thereby, but instead commit a mortal sin.

However, I wish the Bishops would be as stern toward people known to have formally supported abortion as they are to people who have, say gotten remarried, and formally refuse them until they change their ways and seek forgiveness.

Thank you. I knew it had to be but the comments I read elsewhere were so lackadaisical I got bummed out. Just a momentary despair.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Thank you. I knew it had to be but the comments I read elsewhere were so lackadaisical I got bummed out. Just a momentary despair.

Go here ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives/011703/011703d.htm

Today, Canon 1398 of the 1983 revision of the Code of Canon Law reads: “A person who actually procures an abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” The word “actually” indicates that the abortion must have been successful for the penalty to occur; the mere intent to have an abortion is not sufficient.

That the penalty is latae sententiae means it is automatic, and hence there is no need for an official decree. Most excommunications, by way of contrast, have to be proclaimed by church authorities in order to take effect; these are called ferendae sententiae. There are seven acts in canon law that trigger latae sententiae excommunication. Aside from abortion, they are: violence against the pope; sacrilege such as throwing away a consecrated host; absolving a person with whom one has sinned against the sixth commandment; consecrating a bishop without authorization; violating the seal of confession; and apostasy, heresy or schism.

Canon 1329 specifies that accomplices to an act that triggers a latae sententiae excommunication are also subject to the same penalty if “without their assistance, the crime would not have been committed.” Canonists believe such accomplices include the doctor and nurses who perform the procedure, as well as friends or family (such as the husband or boyfriend) who cooperate in a direct fashion, such as paying for the abortion or driving to the clinic.

 

[M_Hains]

Many had high hopes for Pope Benedict but, IMO, he is even more wishy washy that was John Paul 2. They release these great intellectually challenging documents on the orthodox Catholic faith, but do little to feed the sheep. If you don’t feed the sheep they stray and now even orthodox Catholics are starting to stray.

Catholic teaching on faith and morals is clear, regardless of what Pope sits in Rome what Bishop is in your diocese, each one of us is called to faithfully follow the Church’s teachings. If each of us lives holy lives, then we have done the most we can, the rest is up to God.

We each have an opportunity to give witess to Christ in these pagan times, just as the Apostles did in the pagan Roman empire.

 

[Andy_K]

I would not dictate a course of action to the Bishops, but I plead with them, do something! Show us that you’re serious about protecting the unborn.

Don’t leave us thinking that abortion is less serious than remarriage after divorce.

Fair enough.

If the Catholic pro-abort politicians were excommunicated, though…how would they take it? Unfortunately, I see **** Durbin, Ted Kennedy, et al. comparing themselves to Galileo, saying something along the lines of “We’re persecuted now, but time will show us to be correct!!!”

Ignoring how ridiculous such a response would be to those on this board (and rightfully so, I should say!), could this be a reason to not seek excommunication for these politicians?

 

[Franze]

This is the real problem of the Church here and in all places, the lack of faith, but in other times they were a lot of problems, for example the french bishops in XVI century that were openly in heresy.
But we have to be faithful. The orthodox world isn´t so good that it seems.

 

[puzzleannie]

have no comment, opinion or statement about the spiritual condition of any individual, including one who goes to great lengths to expose it to the world, but I will note that anyone who has procured an abortion, performed an abortion, or materially assisted anyone to do these crimes that cry out to God for vengeance is already excommunicated by their own action, and no declaration from any bishop is required. What is required is recourse to the bishop to lift the excommunication (a faculty that has been granted to the priest in confession, fortunately).

 

[kellicouch77]

Let me get this straight- if one is supportive of abortion in it’s various mannerisms, then that is person is not entitled to receive communion?

A few posts back, I read a comment about annulments being given to certain people, but not to others. Can I get some elaboration on that, please? My husband turned in his paperwork in April for his annulment. He isn’t Catholic (yet) but that marriage has to be anulled before our marriage can be blessed in the church.

If Kissling takes communion even though she shouldn’t, what happens to her? What about the priests who give it to her?

 

[pprimeau1976]

http://www.geocities.com/pprimeau1976@sbcglobal.net/Images/kissling.jpg

 

[vern_humphrey]

Fair enough.

If the Catholic pro-abort politicians were excommunicated, though…how would they take it? Unfortunately, I see **** Durbin, Ted Kennedy, et al. comparing themselves to Galileo, saying something along the lines of “We’re persecuted now, but time will show us to be correct!!!”

Let them. We should not be complict in the murder of the innocents in order to avoid such blackmail.

Ignoring how ridiculous such a response would be to those on this board (and rightfully so, I should say!), could this be a reason to not seek excommunication for these politicians?

It is never proper to submit to blackmail – and especially not when so many innocent lives are at at stake.

 

[Grace_Angel]

lifesite.net/ldn/2007/may/07052308.html

This is a must read.

"Kissling writes, ‘Every so often some Roman Catholic hierarch gets a bee in his beanie and makes noises about excommunicating some pro-choice policy maker. Ultra-orthodox Catholics are ecstatic, and even mainstream newspapers turn into tabloids rushing to report the imminence of something that never happens’.”

“But it is true that after 25 years of public advocacy for abortion and as the abortion movement’s favourite weapon to bash and ridicule Catholic teaching, Kissling remains, officially, in good standing as a Catholic and claims to receive Communion regularly”

This is the biggest problem that the Church faces today.

And until the Church actually publically excommuniates someone like Kissling, or any of the intransigent pro abortion, pro choice catholic politicians, then these people will continue to boast that no one can touch them, and they continue their death dealing lobby.
Grace Angel,

 

[gypsyfamily]

As it was taught to me so many years ago.
God does not excommunicate us, he loves us!!
The Pope and the church cannot really excommunicate us (except to say so for all to hear we are not in accord with the church!)

It is my understanding and belief that when we turn away from God and turn away from what WE KNOW TO BE right, just and true we excommunicate ourselves.

That is… We choose to cut ourselves off from God.

To put it another way… We are thumbing our nose at God and choosing “to do it my way”.

By the way… “I did it my way!”

Isn’t that the motto over the gates of hell?

Gods mercy to all,

 

[Joe_Hendrick]

The Church does not have to excommunicate a person they do it to themselves and for them to receive communion without first going to confession would condemn them to Hell if they died in that state…