KJV Bible and Catholics

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also if you want a deep understanding of the scripture the Haydock Bible Commentary is a perfect tool. You can get the Haydock Bible and its commentary but it is pricey at 125 dollars. You can also access the Haydock Bible Commentary online at this site
haydock1859.tripod.com/
You can also access the Douay-Rheims Challoner version at various sites

catholicfirst.com/bibledrv.cfm

this site is the best plus it also includes the Catholic Apocrypha books of III, IV Esdras and the Prayer of Manasses

another good site is www.drbo.org I love it as well, but beware that it also contains a Latin Bible Biblia Sacra Vulgata. The Biblia Sacra Vulgata is the Struggart Edition of the Latin Vulgate and it is Protestant and not approved by the Catholic Church. You can buy the Douay-Rheims on various sites. Loreto Publications, TAN books and Baronius Press just to name a few. I have the one by Baronius Press which also includes 3 Papal encyclicals at the beginning before the OT: Providentissimus Deus by Pope Leo XIII, Spiritus Paraclitus by Pope Benedict XV and Divino Afflante Spiritu by Pope Pius XII.
 
I do not own a Catholic Bible yet. Though raised Catholic, attended Catechism, etc. our family never really explored the scriptures. That happened much later in life for me. I have spent the last 30 plus years in the KJV and became a Latter-day Saint but have a keen interest in what it is about the scriptures that captures our interest and ultimately our bias.

Latter-day Saints have it easy… we are sticking with one version as our primary resource. It makes our choices easy and all of the reference material we generate within our ranks is cohesive with KJV though no one says we cant venture out and research others (like I do). We believe in the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly.

The more common one for Christians these days is the New International Version (NIV) and secondarily the KJV, but I have found in my preliminary analysis that the NIV translation may have lost some of the meat between the connecting nouns, verbs and adjectives. – and it is those links that reveal the true meaning of topics, terms and words. One verse in KJV refers to “perfect” and the NIV does not have that word in the same verse… similar to your “penance” and “confess” issue.

The Catholic Bibles may or may not suffer from the same phenomenon as the NIV (losing key word connectors) but I don’t know yet…

The feedback you have provided is consistent with my research so far and I am pleased to hear that the Spirit confirms the truthfulness of it to you - that is likewise my experience with the KJV. On a side not, I personally believe Mary was ‘full of grace’ according to a definition of grace which is new thinking to both Latter-day Saints and the rest of the Christian world. In fact my definition fits that wording ‘full of grace’ perfectly.

I just saw your last post - You are certainly well informed about this topic, Catholic Bibles… well above my pay grade…

but you bring up III, IV Esdras and the Prayer of Manassas as Catholic too - but not found in current Catholic Bibles (neither are 1 and 2 Esdras in some commentary I have read)… can you explain that to me. this is a little confusing… well maybe not a little.

Are you including Greek Orthodox scripture which I have understood to include these books or are they in Roman Catholic Bibles too?
 
One problem I have with the NIV is the changing of word translations. I don’t know why, but in a couple of cases I venture it is to not look Catholic. For example:

2 Thess 2:15 - “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.” NIV

This word for “teachings” is translated as “traditions” in other bibles, but more importantly as “traditions” in other areas of the NIV. The word is “paradosis” and is translated as “traditions” in the KJV too.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. KJV

One example is Matt 15:2 where the NIV translates the same word as “traditions”. Of course, if 2 Thess 2:15 is translated as “traditions” it make it harder to discount “Tradition” with a capital T. I speculate that is why it is translated as “teachings” in the NIV there and elsewhere.
MBS1
 
VinnyDee78 said:
I do not own a Catholic Bible yet. Though raised Catholic, attended Catechism, etc. our family never really explored the scriptures. That happened much later in life for me. I have spent the last 30 plus years in the KJV and became a Latter-day Saint but have a keen interest in what it is about the scriptures that captures our interest and ultimately our bias.

Latter-day Saints have it easy… we are sticking with one version as our primary resource. It makes our choices easy and all of the reference material we generate within our ranks is cohesive with KJV though no one says we cant venture out and research others (like I do). We believe in the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly.

The more common one for Christians these days is the New International Version (NIV) and secondarily the KJV, but I have found in my preliminary analysis that the NIV translation may have lost some of the meat between the connecting nouns, verbs and adjectives. – and it is those links that reveal the true meaning of topics, terms and words. One verse in KJV refers to “perfect” and the NIV does not have that word in the same verse… similar to your “penance” and “confess” issue.

The Catholic Bibles may or may not suffer from the same phenomenon as the NIV (losing key word connectors) but I don’t know yet…

The feedback you have provided is consistent with my research so far and I am pleased to hear that the Spirit confirms the truthfulness of it to you - that is likewise my experience with the KJV. On a side not, I personally believe Mary was ‘full of grace’ according to a definition of grace which is new thinking to both Latter-day Saints and the rest of the Christian world. In fact my definition fits that wording ‘full of grace’ perfectly.

I just saw your last post - You are certainly well informed about this topic, Catholic Bibles… well above my pay grade…

but you bring up III, IV Esdras and the Prayer of Manassas as Catholic too - but not found in current Catholic Bibles (neither are 1 and 2 Esdras in some commentary I have read)… can you explain that to me. this is a little confusing… well maybe not a little.

Are you including Greek Orthodox scripture which I have understood to include these books or are they in Roman Catholic Bibles too?
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Non Catholic denominations refer III and IV Esdras as I and II Esdras as Catholic consider Ezra and Nehemias (Nehemiah) as I and II Esdras. I don’t know that much in regards to the Greek Orthodox scripture. For years and years I have heard the NAB as scripture in Church and just went with that. I however didn’t know that it was called the New American Bible. The only Bible name I knew was the King James Version and I thought that was the only type of Bible. I don’t particularly care for the NIV that well, but have strong ties with the KJV. My Aunt and Uncle are Pentecostal and KJV-onlyist. As a matter of fact my Uncle was just ordained a Pentecostal minister a couple of months ago. They continually to ridicule me and my family because we are Catholic and the family has been predominantly Catholic for centuries. I still feel the need to compare the Douay-Rheims with the KJV for different reasons. I also feel I need to understand where other denominations are coming from with there beliefs. BTW you mentioned about being raised Catholic and now LDS. Are you considering coming back to the Church or just have some curious interest in Catholicism?? Any thing you need help understand just contact me
 
The KJV is a raped and mistranslated “Bible” edited by a secular king who molested his cousin. I would burn it if I was unfortunate enough to have one come into my possession.

catholicapologetics.net/

They have many articles on it.
 
😃 I got a good chuckle about coming back… as far as my Dad believes, once a Catholic always a Catholic. 🙂

No, I am getting ready to publish a book as a part of my Principles with Promise series of publications and am trying to find the right wording to introduce the methodology and scriptural content for Catholics, but found in the process a while back how KJV wasn’t the preferred text. The project is 25 years in the making…

I feel I can still make it work if I provide the correct cross references and explain some of the differences you noted. The project fit nicely for LDS and other Christians, but the Catholics present a unique challenge I am trying to better understand.

I have asked twenty or so Catholics what version of scripture they use and 99.99% don’t know or don’t read them - my family included. For the diehard scriptorians it may make a difference, but then again they are more informed than the average parishioner.

So this version of Principles with Promise is my gift to my family, to get them into the scriptures… it’ll take some time to convert the text to one of the more accepted Catholic texts.

You have been very helpful… I wonder if anyone can answer my question about the version of the Apocrypha - the only one I’ve seen are KJV circa. Perhaps the Bible you recommended will help me see if there are any differences.

Thanks Again - Vinny
 
requiemaeturnum said:
The KJV is a raped and mistranslated “Bible” edited by a secular king who molested his cousin. I would burn it if I was unfortunate enough to have one come into my possession. They have many articles on it.
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Sorry you feel that way. My experience is different. In fact, my testimony of Christ was born studying from its pages - the Old Testament in particular.

Regardless of its historical origins, it is true and I know it. God did a good job preserving its content regardless of the human factor you mention.

Respectfully - Vinny
 
VinnyDee78 said:
😃 I got a good chuckle about coming back… as far as my Dad believes, once a Catholic always a Catholic. 🙂
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Your dad is right. As Jesus said, those who have been given more, more is expected of them. The Catholic Church referring to the body of the Church, it’s people, being the True Church of Jesus, have been given the fullness of Christ and the sacraments. A person can claim to be an “ex-Catholic” but to “convert” to another Christian Faith is no different than those who broke away from the Catholic Church and founded their own faith. The only difference is instead of finding another faith the convert is joining another convert. When the Church says there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, it is directed to those who were Catholic and left the Church. For a Catholic, the only way to salvation is through the True Church, the Catholic Church. There is a resources page on the web sight linked below that should help you to research the information you need.
 
twb1621 said:
A person can claim to be an “ex-Catholic” but to “convert” to another Christian Faith is no different than those who broke away from the Catholic Church and founded their own faith.
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Interesting perspective. Now I know why they don’t worry about me.

And my friend, I would be interested in knowing why you believe the Catholic Church is the true church. Perhaps there is another thread for that in this forum. I am interested in knowing - how you know.

Thanks for the reference site regarding the Apocrypha questions. It didn’t open for me this go around will try again later. Another questions - Are there any Born Again Catholics?

My Best - Vinny
 
VinnyDee78 said:
Are there any Born Again Catholics?

My Best - Vinny
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I am 🙂 I think all Catholics/Christians are Born Again (that is if born again means having a personal faith in & relationship with Jesus.) Though we usually just say we’re Catholic , because being close to Jesus is part of the Christian faith that we all strive for. (Protestants & Catholics all want one thing, to be close to Jesus:thumbsup: )
 
VinnyDee78 said:
Sorry you feel that way. My experience is different. In fact, my testimony of Christ was born studying from its pages - the Old Testament in particular.

Regardless of its historical origins, it is true and I know it. God did a good job preserving its content regardless of the human factor you mention.

Respectfully - Vinny
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I have a question for you. You Mormons believe the Church went through a “Great Apostasy”- I forget the exact date you claim-but anyways, I remember it was *before * the New Testament Canon was codified by the Catholic Church. If the Church was in a state of apostasy, why do you except the canon that was produced by Her?
 
requiemaeturnum said:
The KJV is a raped and mistranslated “Bible” edited by a secular king who molested his cousin. I would burn it if I was unfortunate enough to have one come into my possession.

catholicapologetics.net/

They have many articles on it.
Click to expand...
on what proof do you have that King James molested his cousin?? While the link you have provided does contain some factual information the rest from I can see is a bunch of filth. While I am Catholic, I see know reason to be Anti-Protestant. Even though I do not agree with all Protestant doctrine the are still people. This site is just as filthy as the site it is attempting to refute www.jesus-is-lord.com. This webmaster is obviously a Douay-Rheims-onlyist. It also sounds like an SSPX site as well. Both Douay-Rheims-onlyism and SSPX are contrary to the Vatican as the SSPX is in schism with Rome. I would advise people to avoid this filthy site. It is certainly derrogetory to Protestants and an embarrassment to Catholics everywhere
 
requiemaeturnum said:
If the Church was in a state of apostasy, why do you except the canon that was produced by Her?
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You know that’s a good question. I have a great appreciation for the holy writ that was preserved for our day by those men and women who sacrificed their all so that we may have them. If they were Monks, Jews, Catholics, or ordinary people who had a hand in preserving the records, I am eternally grateful to each of them.

I also believe as Catholics do that God has a hand in such important matters as these. To answer your question in my unlearned fashion… The apostasy to me has more to do with authority and keys - something God adjudicates not man, than it does with the authenticity of the scriptures.

When Joseph Smith went to the grove of trees to ask God which church to join, he knew nothing about the state of affairs, and expected to pick one of the popular religions of his day and neighborhood. He was told to join none of them and all of the apologetics from now until kingdom come would not convince me otherwise.

The scriptures he was most familiar with at the time was the KJV and it became our standard. The Book of Mormon and other LDS scripture is written in similar pros of the day and all connects together in an fairly organized way. I have noticed a departure from that norm in the NIV.

Joseph showed me the way to get answers for myself – to simply ask, just as James directs. I have deep and abiding testimonies that the ancient records we (you and I) call the Bible are sacred (that which cometh from above) and are meant for our eternal welfare. Having good experiences with any of the translations is what I want to hear about… herein I think you will find true and correct principles… I tried to express that in my book “On Common Ground” - we are all having wonderful experiences with the word… so what does that tell us?

I am interested in the many translations that exist (hence my inquiry), but know I could spend a lifetime learning the differences rather than living the principles to know if the doctrine is true. To me that is the preferred course. What’s your take?

tobinatorstark: Thanks for the warning on the filth site - it’s been my experience and perhaps our lot to be directed to sites like these by others who would prefer to contend and demean rather than understand and bless. I am sure Catholics deal with similar issues.
 
No, But a real good bible is the New Jersalem Bible, it is real easy to understand. Especially if you are just start to study the bible.
 
VinnyDee78 said:
😃 I got a good chuckle about coming back… as far as my Dad believes, once a Catholic always a Catholic. 🙂

No, I am getting ready to publish a book as a part of my Principles with Promise series of publications and am trying to find the right wording to introduce the methodology and scriptural content for Catholics, but found in the process a while back how KJV wasn’t the preferred text. The project is 25 years in the making…

I feel I can still make it work if I provide the correct cross references and explain some of the differences you noted. The project fit nicely for LDS and other Christians, but the Catholics present a unique challenge I am trying to better understand.

I have asked twenty or so Catholics what version of scripture they use and 99.99% don’t know or don’t read them - my family included. For the diehard scriptorians it may make a difference, but then again they are more informed than the average parishioner.

So this version of Principles with Promise is my gift to my family, to get them into the scriptures… it’ll take some time to convert the text to one of the more accepted Catholic texts.

You have been very helpful… I wonder if anyone can answer my question about the version of the Apocrypha - the only one I’ve seen are KJV circa. Perhaps the Bible you recommended will help me see if there are any differences.

Thanks Again - Vinny
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Your best bet of seeing an Apocrypha of the Catholic is having an old Douay-Rheims and an old Clementine Vulgate edition. I have yet to see a NAB, JB etc with the Apocrypha in print but I have seen it online
 
Do you know if Barnes and Noble or Boarders sells the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible? I am headed out this evening and might stop by if you think so.

I did check the sites you provided and know I can order them online, but thought it might be sooner at the book store if they sell them.
 
VinnyDee78 said:
Do you know if Barnes and Noble or Boarders sells the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible? I am headed out this evening and might stop by if you think so.

I did check the sites you provided and know I can order them online, but thought it might be sooner at the book store if they sell them.
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They might. I have never been to a Barnes and Noble or Boarders.
 
The New American Bible has the Apocrypha. Its the most common Catholic Bible in the USA. (or at lest the easiest to find)

The Revised Standard version- catholic edition
also has the Apocrypha. & is less modern then the NAB.

Hope this helps
 
VinnyDee78 said:
Interesting perspective. Now I know why they don’t worry about me.

And my friend, I would be interested in knowing why you believe the Catholic Church is the true church. Perhaps there is another thread for that in this forum. I am interested in knowing - how you know.

Thanks for the reference site regarding the Apocrypha questions. It didn’t open for me this go around will try again later. Another questions - Are there any Born Again Catholics?

My Best - Vinny
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Some times the sight is kinda busy and it takes a couple attempts to get on. I don’t have time now but I will respond to your question in the morning.
 
twb 1621 - I am looking forward to your reply.

tobinatorstark - I lucked out tonight the Book Store had only one copy of the Douay Rheims Version (Family Record Edition).

A small blessing - it was listed for $39.95, but when they rung it up at checkout it was only $19.95. Perhaps it was one of those ‘meant to be’ moments. Nice book with pages to record our family genealogy.

Now I have some real homework to do and will give you some feedback on my findings if interested. Time is ticken…

In all cases, thank you all for your continued answers to my questions. I look forward to more discussions/questions.

And while you are answering the other questions I posed - since it seems to be a small sticking point in interpretations, what does “Hail Mary full of grace” mean to you anyway?
 
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