Knee jerk response to faith alone

[Cat_Herder]

Show me one instance of Roman Catholicism

Ask and ye shall receive…

Confessional,

[BIBLEDRB]John 20:23[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]2 Cor 5:17-20[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]James 5:13-15[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]James 5:16[/BIBLEDRB]

Infant Baptism,

[BIBLEDRB]Jn 3:5[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mk 16:16[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Lk 18:15[/BIBLEDRB]

Mass;

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 14:18-20[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Malachi 1:11[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 11:23-25[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 11:27-30[/BIBLEDRB]

As far as James if your interpretation was correct, then you make the Scripture contradict itself from the words of Paul and thus we better just toss it aside,

O RLY? Paul was quite adamant that works after justification are necessary for salvation.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 2:6-8[/BIBLEDRB]

What church? we have already established that Roman Catholic church is nowhere to be found in Scripture;

That proves you haven’t looked. Acts 9:31 in the original Greek:

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?pictureid=7471&albumid=1087&dl=1285982070&thumb=1
Google it or see for yourself.

God has always saved the same, by faith in God and not of any human work, ceremony or religion. If He has changed the way He saves, then God is a liar because He does not change does He?

Good point…
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 17:14[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Colossians 2:11-13[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 16:16[/BIBLEDRB]

Why do Catholics deny the doctrine of Election?

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]

… and because there is not one mention in Scripture of ANY distinction between God’s “will” and His “desire.” That is a tradition of men that Calvin cooked up in order to deny the free will of humans to accept or reject Christ.

 

[De_Maria]

Mathew 16 is the basis for the authority of the Catholic church, which it claims for itself and given to itself. It may be the basis of the Eastern Orthodox church; if taken out of biblical context since both make the same apostolic authoritative claims.

Non sequitur
Because the Catholic and the Orthodox both use this verse to support their claims does not mean that the verse is taken out of context by both.

One of us is right.

Or you can see it for what it is; that the Apostles were given the ability to do signs, healing and wonders to get the church, “Christ is actually building”, off the ground and running to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles.

That is taking it out of context. Here is what that verse is saying in context with all of Scripture:
Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But let us proceed to prove that Peter represents God.

Is Moses God? Of course not. But what did God say?
Exodus 7 1 And the Lord said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharao: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Why did God call Moses God? Because He appointed Moses as His representative before Pharoa and the people:
Exodus 19 9 The Lord said to him: Lo, now will I come to thee in the darkness of a cloud, that the people may hear me speaking to thee, and may believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people to the Lord.

And what did God do in the New Testament? God also selected a man to represent Him. Simon Bar-Jonah.
Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Who is the Rock?
1 Corinthians 10 4 And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.

Christ is the Rock!
And the Rock turned to Simon and said, “YOU ARE ROCK and on this Rock I will build my Church”

So God gave Simon the name that represents God.
2 Kings 22 2 And he said: The Lord is my rock, and my strength, and my saviour.

Why? Because Simon now represents God before men.
Therefore Jesus also gave Him the keys to the Kingdom:
Matthew 16 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Thereby giving Simon the authority to save. He can open and close the door to heaven, therefore, he can save. And so, the Pope, the successor of Peter, is the representative of God before His People.

The true church is found here in Scripture among some other places.
Romans 8 – For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Yeah. And here:
1 Timothy 3:15
**But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the ****truth.

and here:
**Matthew 18:17
**And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the ****church: but if he neglect to **hear the **church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
**
Jesus Christ did not establish some namby pamby institution that would fail as soon as He turned His back. The Church He established is still alive and well today. And it is still teaching the Traditions He passed down:
Matthew 28:
17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I don’t expect you to believe this nor do I have any intention of convincing you otherwise for that is the power of God; not the power of Pat De.

But the words you have posted are your own and bear no resemblance to the Word of God.**

As for me, I will always and forever focus on the Person of Jesus

On the contrary, Jesus said,
John 6:56**
**He that eateth my ****flesh, and ****drinketh my **blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Unless you do that, you are focusing on yourself. Because it is by eating His flesh and drinking His blood that we abide in Him. And:
1 Corinthians 11:26
**For as often as ye eat this ****bread, and ****drink this **cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
**

and never on religion, but that is me and everyone’s spiritual walk is different in practice and reality. In the end, God will exact perfect justice according to His word.

**Amen!

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Please to be fair; please tell all your brethren not to use the term “Roman Catholic” if that is offensive,

We only use it to accomodate your brethren. They use it all the time in reference to us and the Church. Its so prevalent that even some poor Catholics have been deluded into believing that is the official name of the Catholic Church.

which it seems to be otherwise why bother to bring this up?.

Because apparently YOU BELIEVE it is the official name of the Catholic Church. That is why you said I should look for it in Scripture, isn’t it?

I will refrain from using the word “Roman” and if I slip up and am called on it I will apologize.

Not a problem with me either way. I post on CARM all the time. And that is the singular name that YOUR brethren call Catholics on that forum.

Is that an analogy, for there were no church building either??

Very good. Now you’re getting it.

What does the Catholic church know that the Jews did not? "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?" & The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this {man} who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” Mark 2:7 & Luke 5:21

This:
Matt 9
6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7And he arose, and departed to his house.
**8But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. **

and this:
John 20:23
**Whose soever sins ye remit, they are ****remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye ****retain, they are **retained.

Matthew 18:18; Jesus preaching to a crowd of followers or disciples; most likely some true and some false. The point is God alone can forgive sins

God has given the power to men.

and the ability to share the Gospel, the message from heaven, that either binds or looses a person from their sin.

God has given this power to men. What the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. God gave the Church the authority to save.

God chose to use the royal priesthood of believers as the tool to deliver the “Gospel of our salvation” for those who believe. The power and the authority is in the Gospel, not the person God uses as a tool for delivery. Otherwise, then the Pope could go around and would be required to do and say you are forgiven and you are not and you 3 are, but you two are not. Notice how you always come to a man-centered position and i always come to a God-centered position. It is worth noting because it is a pattern and there is a good reason it is a pattern.

You are mistaken. You are like Saul before Samuel:

1 Samuel 15
20And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
21But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal.
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

All you are doing is following the Reformers and their traditions of men which say, “Men are despicable and evil, don’t follow them. Follow only God.”

But God says:
Hebrews 6:12
**That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through **faith and patience inherit the promises.

And also:
Hebrews 13:7
**Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith **follow, considering the end of their conversation.

and also:
1 Corinthians 11:1
**Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of **Christ.

And so you turn away from the Word of God to follow your man made tradition.

In fact, it is. But you have turned the tables on the truth. It is you who follow the man centered religion.

After all that right above; all I can say it it is nice speaking with you I hope you enjoy your religious walk while God’s common grace is upon you - God blesses!

And to you!

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

The Catholic Bible contains errors

On the contrary, it is the Protestant Bibles which contain errors.

and therefore cannot be from God; for God is perfection to the uttermost and that includes His word. You, like DeMaria, love to take pride or show your rather large ego’s in believing you have undone someone; like her I would say you are either a very immature Christian or not one at all; for no Christian would ever bask in what they believe to be an error would they?

And yet, you do. So what’s up? Different criteria for Protestants and Catholics?

Grace by faith is throughout the OT,

No doubt. But so are the requirements of keeping the commandments and of works

Proverbs 24:12

If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man **according to his **works?

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall **reward every man according to his **works.

Romans 2:6
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

which neither a Catholic nor a Protestant can make any claim to and furthermore all of Scripture is the work of the Holy Spirit working through the pens of men. This is why I suggested a reading of Hebrews chapter 11.

I have pretty much had enough of all this immaturity and egotistical attitudes unfitting for anyone naming Christ. Who is Saved?

Who is saved? He who obeys Christ:
Hebrews 5:9
**And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that **obey him;

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Depends on your definition of what a Christian is; God’s children, they are in agreement as to salvation, but may disagree on eschatology or other minor issues.

Give us an example of these things which Christians agree upon?

What does the Scripture say? Upon hearing the gospel and at the point of believing the Gospel.

This agrees with Catholic Teaching.

It is not possible for a child of God not to persevere since He who began a good work will complete it; unless you think God can’t handle it.

This is against Scripture:
Hebrews 6:4-6 (King James Version)

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Obviously, it is possible for Christians to fall away.

and Scripture also says:
1 Timothy 1:19
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

An ego trip is not reproof.

That’s what you call reproof, because you don’t want to accept it.

So the person converted prior to death does not exist?

How do we know? Only God knows. God is our judge. Can you read hearts?

I have answered it many times now; go back or better yet read Romans 3:9-20 and Eph 2:1-3; that is your free will.

Amen! We have free will!

You presume to drawl that conclusion.

Sounds like you, yeah.

 

[De_Maria]

**DeMaria & CatHerder **(what is that anyway?..LOL) - Thanks for the dialogue, but I have nothing else to add or that should be given concerning His Word. Good luck to you both.

Subscribing out!

God bless you!

Sincerely,

De Maria