Kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

I am thinking what you are saying is that you genuflect at the first pew? If you were to kneel (go down on both kness and stay there), there would be a gap between you and whomever was distributing Communion.

The norm - the general rule - is that you bow your head as you are facing the Eucahrist (that is, after the person in front of you has received and stepped aside).

The world will not fall apart if you genuflect. However, it can (and not necessarily will ) possibly cause two things: 1) there is always the potential that the person behind you may not be paying enough attention to what you do and move into you, stepping on you or bumping into you (may, not will); and secondly, because it is otherwise than how most people do (they bow their heads) it can result in attention being drawn to you.

Welcome on your “trip across the Tiber”. You may get all sorts of opinions on the issue. The term “wrong” is a curious one, in that it can carry many different shades. I would hope that the issue would not become a stumbling block for you.

Trouble is when one person starts doing it the others tend to follow. Pack / sheep mentality?
There’s a story of a donkey getting down on both knees before the Blessed Sacrament (from a story of St Anthony of Padua).
Genuflecting? We must move from the transcendent to the imminent. From the Sanctuary and out to the people. From the congregation out into society.From the heart of God. I am troubled by the behaviour of those who show every pious activity in Church and then fail to recognize the Presence of God in one who has received. I hate adoration of the Blessed Sacrament after Holy Mass. This moves the understanding of theology from Imminent God back to the Transcendent when the whole flow of Scripture is from trascendent to imminent. When I have questioned priests on this I have been told it is to do with ‘time management’.
What is the point of genuflecting to a God in the Blessed Sacrament on the altar if we fail to recognize Him in each other? It makes a parody of Holy Mass.

 

[otjm]

Trouble is when one person starts doing it the others tend to follow. Pack / sheep mentality?
There’s a story of a donkey getting down on both knees before the Blessed Sacrament (from a story of St Anthony of Padua).
Genuflecting? We must move from the transcendent to the imminent. From the Sanctuary and out to the people. From the congregation out into society.From the heart of God. I am troubled by the behaviour of those who show every pious activity in Church and then fail to recognize the Presence of God in one who has received. I hate adoration of the Blessed Sacrament after Holy Mass. This moves the understanding of theology from Imminent God back to the Transcendent when the whole flow of Scripture is from trascendent to imminent. When I have questioned priests on this I have been told it is to do with ‘time management’.
What is the point of genuflecting to a God in the Blessed Sacrament on the altar if we fail to recognize Him in each other? It makes a parody of Holy Mass.

God is both immanent and transcendent; so it should not be an either/or but a both/and. My parish has 24 hour Perpetual Adoration. It is nice to be able to take and hour out of a week and jsut spend time with Him. Even Christ went off by himself to pray to the Father; some time when you have time read the Gopels and count how many times He is observed doinf so. It is also vitally critical that we bring Christ to the world, which is in such disarray and so needing to hear the Good News; and as Francis was alleged to have said, preach the Good News; if necessary, use words.

 

[Ockham]

Jesus Christ Himself got on his knees. He humbled Himself on the Cross. It takes quite the arrogant person to not humble himself in front of God in a gesture of reverence and respect. Unless of course, you don’t believe in the Real Presence.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

God is both immanent and transcendent; so it should not be an either/or but a both/and. My parish has 24 hour Perpetual Adoration. It is nice to be able to take and hour out of a week and jsut spend time with Him. Even Christ went off by himself to pray to the Father; some time when you have time read the Gopels and count how many times He is observed doinf so. It is also vitally critical that we bring Christ to the world, which is in such disarray and so needing to hear the Good News; and as Francis was alleged to have said, preach the Good News; if necessary, use words.

I’m not in dispute with you. I recall reading somewhere “Christianity has not been tried and found to be lacking. It has not been tried”, and Lenin who is reputed to have said “With three Saint Francis of Assisi the whole of Russia could have been converted.”
We have a treasure in Holy Mass, a pity a lot of the time it is left unclaimed, and left up there in the sanctuary with Father. Or emphasis returned to the sanctuary and locked away in the Tabernacle (until next time?) like a (daily or) weekly T.V. show.
Emphasis on adoration of Jesus up there on the altar in the monstrance should be either times outside of Holy Mass or before Holy Mass in Benediction. At the ‘conclusion’ of Holy Mass we should consider each recipient as being a monstrance holding our Blessed Lord (He is no longer confined to “up there in the sanctuary with Father.”) Transcendent to Imminent God; calling us to responsibility and accountability.

 

[franklinf]

…

And if you read carefully what I said, I simply said that the statistic that more and more youth are attending the EF than are attending the OF flies in the face of reality. The reality is that there are tremendously more Mass said in the OF form than there are in the EF form. I think you have misstated the statistic, but unless and until you post it, no one else will know, will they?

I think you are misreading what Jav said. Jav said that more and more youth are attending the EF rather than the OF, not that more youth attend the OF. IE the % of youth attending the EF is increasing faster. Not commenting on the veracity, just trying to clarify.

Jav, please correct me if I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[Ockham]

The norm - the general rule - is that you bow your head as you are facing the Eucahrist (that is, after the person in front of you has received and stepped aside).

Actually, the norm is to receive Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling. In hand while standing is an indult and subject to seven conditions.

What does it tell you when Methodists show more reverence for communion knowing full well it is only symbolic in their church and actual in ours?

 

[Javl]

I think you are misreading what Jav said. Jav said that more and more youth are attending the EF rather than the OF, not that more youth attend the OF. IE the % of youth attending the EF is increasing faster. Not commenting on the veracity, just trying to clarify.

Jav, please correct me if I misunderstood what you were saying.

No. You are correct franklin. I guess I didn’t explain myself well enough. Thank you.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[maryjk]

Jesus Christ Himself got on his knees. He humbled Himself on the Cross. It takes quite the arrogant person to not humble himself in front of God in a gesture of reverence and respect. Unless of course, you don’t believe in the Real Presence.

Wow. So those that stand to receive don’t believe in the Real Presence? Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[otjm]

Jesus Christ Himself got on his knees. He humbled Himself on the Cross. It takes quite the arrogant person to not humble himself in front of God in a gesture of reverence and respect. Unless of course, you don’t believe in the Real Presence.

And it takes an even more humble person to follow the legitimate authority of their bishop and do something they don’t personally like, but which the bishop, by way of his authority granted through the Pope and by way of his apostolic authority has set forth.

But then, we continue to have cafeteria Catholics who think that their way is perfectly permissible and they can do otherwise than as directed legitimately by the bishops.

 

[otjm]

Actually, the norm is to receive Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling. In hand while standing is an indult and subject to seven conditions.

What does it tell you when Methodists show more reverence for communion knowing full well it is only symbolic in their church and actual in ours?

Actually, you are only partly correct. The norm for the universal Roman rite is to receive on the tongue, and by indult we may receive in the hand.

However, Rome sepcifically granted the bishops of the United States the authority, which they have exercised, to make the norm for receiving standing. It is in the GIRM which ahs been approved by Rome.

Standing is not subject to your seven conditions. It is subject to the General Instructaions of the Roman Missal, and is not otherwise conditioned.

And while you may be of the opinion that the seven conditions are not met for Communion in the hand, that is your persoanl opinion, and people with far more knowledge, experience, and authority have decided otherwise. They are called priests and bishops.

And of course, you and anyone else is free to receive on the tongue; but you are not free to criticize those who recceive in the hand.

And your bit about the Methodists is an absolute hoot. They are no more reverent than Catholics are, nor less so; they are as subject to human foibles as anyone else.

 

[diggerdomer]

Actually, the norm is to receive Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling.

That may be the norm where you are, but in the U.S. the norm for Roman Catholics is to stand, and the gesture of reverence is a bow of the head.

 

[CWBetts]

That may be the norm where you are, but in the U.S. the norm for Roman Catholics is to stand, and the gesture of reverence is a bow of the head.

I just don’t feel a nod of the head shows proper respect for the Creator of all that is

 

[otjm]

I just don’t feel a nod of the head shows proper respect for the Creator of all that is

You are right; a nod of the head is not proper respect. That is why we bow our head to Jesus. A bow is an intentional act of reverence. A nod of the head in an acknowledgement of something. It is a whole lot less what we do, and more how we do it.

Perhaps you encapsulated it though; it is not about feelings; it is about intentional reverence. Someone with arthritis in the spine can make the slightest of bows and show more reverence than someone with flexibility who reflexively and with no though makes a more profound bow.

 

[diggerdomer]

I just don’t feel a nod of the head shows proper respect for the Creator of all that is

That’s understandable. But of course, no human gesture would be an adequate demonstration of respect for the Creator of all that is…right?

 

[Ockham]

The norm for the universal Roman rite is to receive on the tongue, and by indult we may receive in the hand.

However, Rome sepcifically granted the bishops of the United States the authority, which they have exercised, to make the norm for receiving standing. It is in the GIRM which ahs been approved by Rome.

It is an indult that started in the Age of Aquarius as a liturgical abuse. Our Pontiff is trying to steer the flock back to the proper manner.

What do you people have against getting on your knees before your God anyway? Do you not feel God worthy enough of such a gesture?

 

[otjm]

It is an indult that started in the Age of Aquarius as a liturgical abuse. Our Pontiff is trying to steer the flock back to the proper manner.

What do you people have against getting on your knees before your God anyway? Do you not feel God worthy enough of such a gesture?

Age of Aquarius? No, the Age of Viet Nam. Aquarius had nothing to do with it.

The Pontiff is trying to steer? Sorry, it is the norm. As in the rule published under the authority of Rome.

Why do you have a problem following the lawful and licit directions of the bishops? Oh, that’s right, I forgot. You were anointed…

God has received a number of gestures through the ages. You just prefer to go by your feelings.

 

[maryjk]

Jesus Christ Himself got on his knees. He humbled Himself on the Cross. It takes quite the arrogant person to not humble himself in front of God in a gesture of reverence and respect. Unless of course, you don’t believe in the Real Presence.

It is an indult that started in the Age of Aquarius as a liturgical abuse. Our Pontiff is trying to steer the flock back to the proper manner.

What do you people have against getting on your knees before your God anyway? Do you not feel God worthy enough of such a gesture?

You still haven’t answered the question that I asked. Are you really claiming that people that don’t kneel to receive don’t believe in the real presence?

Because now you have added that people that don’t kneel don’t believe God is worth it.

 

[CWBetts]

That’s understandable. But of course, no human gesture would be an adequate demonstration of respect for the Creator of all that is…right?

Point taken, but I think we can also agree that kneeling is more reverent than a nod. I am not saying that those who don’t kneel are somehow less reverent or whatever. I just prefer to kneel myself, and I would like to see the GIRM indicate a return to kneeling and recieving on the tongue.

 

[diggerdomer]

Point taken, but I think we can also agree that kneeling is more reverent than a nod. I am not saying that those who don’t kneel are somehow less reverent or whatever. I just prefer to kneel myself, and I would like to see the GIRM indicate a return to kneeling and recieving on the tongue.

We can differ on whether kneeling is more reverent than a bow in a given situation or liturgical setting. That’s fine with me.

Please, note, I think it’s better to use “bow” (as the Church does) rather than “nod.” I am not “nodding” at God when I receive Communion. I am bowing.

Personally, I’m not bothered by what particular gesture of reverence a person chooses based on what they feel best expresses their sentiment. Although, in the U.S., the norm the Bishops directed is a bow of the head, so there’s that to consider too. I might have a concern if someone in the U.S., knowing the norm prescribed by the Bishops, chose otherwise.

 

[otjm]

Point taken, but I think we can also agree that kneeling is more reverent than a nod. I am not saying that those who don’t kneel are somehow less reverent or whatever. I just prefer to kneel myself, and I would like to see the GIRM indicate a return to kneeling and recieving on the tongue.

If kneeling when one knows that the GIRM sets the norm of standing, then one is in open, albeit slight defiance to the bishops who have set the norm and to Rome which approved it. Subtle, slight cafeteria Catholicism; the world will not fall apart; no one will go into heresy. But given that some who will kneel when all others stand are the same group that criticizes the priests and laity for other failures to follow the GIRM, it is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, no?