Kneeling for Communion at OF Mass

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MarkThompson said:
I have explained this repeatedly (including, I thought, to you); just start here.
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Mark, I went through those, I didn’t seem to see where you answered my questions.

I will repeat again: given the responsa that the CDWDS have issue in regards to GIRM 160, how exactly is the kneeling position contrary to the existing legislation ( thus being ‘illegitimate’)

And who is the legislator of the GIRM for Canon 16,1-2?
Incidentally, I would love to see the contortions people would twist themselves into if the situation were reversed:
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How exactly would that prove your point?
 
TrueLight said:
But we’re allowed to have an opinion about a discipline right? I’m asking seriously.
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The Church to which we belong, is the Militant Church. We have the right to opinion against our pastors and bishops as in the military the soldiers have against their superiors.

The fact that the Spirit of Vatican II abolished the Holy Inquisition does not changes this basic fact.
 
TrueLight said:
But we’re allowed to have an opinion about a discipline right? I’m asking seriously.
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You may have an opinion about a discipline but even if that is at odds with the Church position you must still accept the Church position on that discipline.
For example, some Catholics think priests should be allowed to marry. The Church position is that they cannot (as a discipline it could be changed but unlikely). All Catholics have to accept that.
 
I read about this COTT/CITH argument before. I think it boiled down to this:

In the Roman Catholic church:

COTT, kneeling, is the norm;
CITH, standing, is an indult;
COTT, kneeling, cannot be forbidden;
CITH, standing, as an indult, can be removed at any time, if your bishop wishes to.
CITH was not part of the TLM, so may not be ‘demanded’ at one, by the laity.

If you think your god is present in the wafer, that is is him, I truly don’t see how changing over to CITH offers any benefit to you or your community or religion.

It’s just the exact opposite of what you’d expect of pious people.

BUt hey!, it’s the 21st Century. Lots of people ‘experimenting’ with ‘lifestyles’ and ‘self expression’ and suchlike 🤷
 
InquisitorMax said:
I

COTT, kneeling, is the norm;
CITH, standing, is an indult;
COTT, kneeling, cannot be forbidden;
CITH, standing, as an indult, can be removed at any time, if your bishop wishes to.
CITH was not part of the TLM, so may not be ‘demanded’ at one, by the laity.
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I agree with this, except the highlighted statement.

First of all the power for the decision is given to the National Conferences of the Bishop, not to the individual bishop in this kind of liturgical question.

Secondly and most importantly 500 people cannot receive communion kneeling in one Mass. A conference of bishops can try it, but definitely will reverse facing the reality. Neither is it possible to receive the cup kneeling, for over 200 people. If something cannot be done, one may play Stalin, and try to change, but one cannot change.

Also for the principle in the good old time homebound people received the communion laying in their bed, sitting in their chair, they kneelig very rarely, and no one ever thought that this is not reverent. God understands our imperfections. I also remember communion in standing in outside masses, when there was mud on the ground.
 
Brendan said:
It happens all the time at the local EF Masses, so you are clearly incorrect.
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Please go in details. Where are weekday EF masses with 500 communicants (you said: ‘all the time’) . Where are EF masses in Sundays and Holy days of obligations with 500 communicants? (please remember what you said). How long the Mass takes? How many masses are in a given day on that places? How many priests are present to distribute the communion/

The truth is always in the details.
 
laszlo said:
Please go in details. Where are weekday EF masses with 500 communicants (you said: ‘all the time’) . Where are EF masses in Sundays and Holy days of obligations with 500 communicants? (please remember what you said). How long the Mass takes? How many masses are in a given day on that places? How many priests are present to distribute the communion/
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There was that Mass with Bishop Slattery at the National Shrine last year that had far over 500 (2000-3000) people in attendance and Holy Communion was given kneeling and on the tongue to all who received in a reasonably short period of time.

The greater number I have personally seen is, just guessing, about 250, which takes less than 10 minutes, I’d say (although I don’t check my watch or anything) with two priests and no communion from the chalice.
 
laszlo said:
I agree with this, except the highlighted statement.

First of all the power for the decision is given to the National Conferences of the Bishop, not to the individual bishop in this kind of liturgical question.

Secondly and most importantly 500 people cannot receive communion kneeling in one Mass. A conference of bishops can try it, but definitely will reverse facing the reality. Neither is it possible to receive the cup kneeling, for over 200 people. If something cannot be done, one may play Stalin, and try to change, but one cannot change.

Also for the principle in the good old time homebound people received the communion laying in their bed, sitting in their chair, they kneelig very rarely, and no one ever thought that this is not reverent. God understands our imperfections. I also remember communion in standing in outside masses, when there was mud on the ground.
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Actually, and there have been cases, an individual Bishop doesn’t need to agree with the rest of the Episcopal Conference. So a particular diocese may forbid CITH even if the Episcopal Conference gets the indult. The Episcopal Conference doesn’t bind Bishops. The authority of the Episcopal Conference rests on the Bishops agreeing to something.

Also, standing is not an indult. It is a norm established by the same Episcopal Conference.

Also I’ve been to our RC Cathedral just this month for First Friday Mass. It was packed, definitely more than 500 people. Although not everyone knelt to receive Communion, there was a Communion rail and there was also a lineup for receiving standing in the middle. I would say half received standing, half received kneeling. There were 5 priests distributing Communion.
 
Monica4316 said:
Hi 🙂

Okay I really want to cover my head during Mass, and kneel for Communion… but I really don’t want to draw attention to myself. I can’t go to the Latin Mass most Sundays. My parish is pretty contemporary, and something like this would definitely stand out… it’s also a large parish.

My question is, does anyone here kneel for Communion at the OF Mass? The ideal for me is going to the TLM but that’s often impossible at the moment 😦 if you do…HOW do you do this? did you speak to the priest beforehand? has there been any opposition from anyone? do you find it helps you or distracts you cause you’re doing something different?

My intention is not to do anything “different” or to look really traditional… I just want to show Christ that reverence. I was thinking of asking the parish priest what he thinks first, and getting his permission. I would also ask a priest who’s been guiding me spiritually. But - I just wanted to see what the experiences of other people have been with this… I have some friends who kneel at the Novus Ordo and it doesn’t sound very easy at all, but my parish seems more ‘modern’ than theirs, and there’s no one at my parish who receives Communion kneeling. I feel like I already stand out and I dont want to stand out more 😦

My other question is… is this allowed by the Church? If it helps, I live in Canada.

thanks! 🙂
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I have been kneeling at OF masses for 3 years now. Went from a parish of maybe 150 families to a parish of 500 families. The priest and other parishoners are fine with it
 
Since receiving on the tongue is the norm, I think that whenever someone receives on the hand, the priest should search that person out after Mass and catechize him!

In response to Monica, go ahead and do it. I’ve been receiving kneeling at the OF for the past 15 years or so. I’ve had priests who don’t mind, priests who give me dirty looks, one who laughed at me (out loud) each and every time, and one who ordered me to stand (which I didn’t do, considering that a priest isn’t supposed to do that). He did give me communion when I failed to arise, however. Another priest told one of my family members that he wanted to talk to her after Mass. You’d think they’d have more important things to do.
 
I find it interesting now to read about the different “methods” of communicating in the Church. In the Liberal Catholic Church, which I belong to, receiving Holy Eucharist in the hand is strictly forbidden, and if possible, all are expected to kneel for the Sacrament, at a communion rail, where available. Of course, our Mass is also still said ad orientem. I find it very interesting that the LIBERAL Catholic Church uses this approach, and the Roman Catholic Church no longer does. I personally grew up receiving Holy Eucharist in the hand at the Novus Ordo, but could not fathom the practice now. Puzzling to me that there is still so much variation in the practice.
 
I’m sure most Roman Catholics find the “Liberal Catholic” church also puzzling.
 
For the poster who asked, there are some of us who cannot, for various reasons, tolerate someone else putting something, even Someone, into our mouths. Many of the elderly in my parish can’t kneel and can barely manage a shallow bow. I have seen elderly people have a very hard time getting the host from their tongue fully into their mouths, and they need their own hand to help them do it.

My pastor has been asked and has responded about reception kneeling and on the tongue. Lots of folks receive on the tongue, some genuflect, and a couple receive on the tongue. It’s a matter of traffic flow and safety in our parish, so as long as people are careful, it’s not a problem.
 
Paxvobis said:
The only ‘incident’ I had was when on the Sunday after Low Sunday (I forget if its the Second or Third Sunday of Easter), a priest asked me if I was a new Catholic and when I asked why, he said “Well, why did you kneel down?” And I just brushed it off by saying “well, it’s what I’ve always done.”
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You did good.

With the straightest face, my answer would have been “because I am catholic” :rolleyes:
 
EnchantedEve said:
I find it interesting now to read about the different “methods” of communicating in the Church. In the Liberal Catholic Church, which I belong to, receiving Holy Eucharist in the hand is strictly forbidden, and if possible, all are expected to kneel for the Sacrament, at a communion rail, where available. Of course, our Mass is also still said ad orientem. I find it very interesting that the LIBERAL Catholic Church uses this approach, and the Roman Catholic Church no longer does. I personally grew up receiving Holy Eucharist in the hand at the Novus Ordo, but could not fathom the practice now. Puzzling to me that there is still so much variation in the practice.
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I totally agree! I’d love to know whose idea it was to rip out the communion rails. I think my home parish is the only one left in the whole county with a communion rail 😦
 
I would like to know why people are not signing petitions asking their Bishops to work towards making kneeling for communion the norm except in the case of age and infirmity.

We are talking about receiving God, Y’all. 🤷

If Jesus appeared to me in his human form right now, I would not be kneeling. I would be laying flat on my stomach.
 
TrueLight said:
I would like to know why people are not signing petitions asking their Bishops to work towards making kneeling for communion the norm except in the case of age and infirmity.

We are talking about receiving God, Y’all. 🤷

If Jesus appeared to me in his human form right now, I would not be kneeling. I would be laying flat on my stomach.
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Exactly, I agree. Occasionally I have thought of boycotting 😛 until they bring back the mass the way it was 60 yrs ago! Communion rails, male alter servers with paten, and no EMHC. Does anyone realize how good they had it :confused:
 
BrushedByAngels said:
Exactly, I agree. Occasionally I have thought of boycotting 😛 until they bring back the mass the way it was 60 yrs ago! Communion rails, male alter servers with paten, and no EMHC. Does anyone realize how good they had it :confused:
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Hmmm…that might be how you remember it. Many here would disagree that it was quite so wonderful.
 
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