Kneeling for Communion at OF Mass....

[TrueLight]

I am more concerned by the attitude behind. The faith is not a legal obstacle course where our objective is to analyze the law and conform to it. And if we can find ways around the letter of the law to get what we want, then we should seek it. Salvation is not in the law, the law is only merely a guide on how we should act. Read my signature. Our objective in life is to share in the life of God, not to follow a list of dos and don’ts.

But what is the attitude behind not liking that I choose to receive kneeling? If it is allowed, then what is the problem? I feel that I am repeating myself, but my point is, if that is the way I feel led to receive and it is allowed, then why do some CAF members have an issue?

I’m not sure if you are still attending a Latin Rite Parish, but since you believe that standing is more reverent based on Eastern theology, let’s put the shoe on the other foot.

If the Bishop of that diocese stated that kneeling was the norm, but you could stand if you wanted, would you not stand?

 

[zab]

But what is the attitude behind not liking that I choose to receive kneeling? If it is allowed, then what is the problem? I feel that I am repeating myself, but my point is, if that is the way I feel led to receive and it is allowed, then why do some CAF members have an issue?

I’m not sure if you are still attending a Latin Rite Parish, but since you believe that standing is more reverent based on Eastern theology, let’s put the shoe on the other foot.

If the Bishop of that diocese stated that kneeling was the norm, but you could stand if you wanted, would you not stand?

The problem is there was no problem till some made it a problem. Why the attitude when one understands the importance of following the norm that has been set? If we are given another option by providing a kneeler or a rail, then that is another story.

 

[ConstantineTG]

But what is the attitude behind not liking that I choose to receive kneeling? If it is allowed, then what is the problem? I feel that I am repeating myself, but my point is, if that is the way I feel led to receive and it is allowed, then why do some CAF members have an issue?

If you are at peace with it, then go and be.

I’m not sure if you are still attending a Latin Rite Parish, but since you believe that standing is more reverent based on Eastern theology, let’s put the shoe on the other foot.

We do not stand because “its more reverent”. This is what I am saying about legalism. Its a good guide to know what to do when a situation presents itself. But its not the be-all, end-all of Christian life. We do things because it bears fruit in our life which ultimately lead us to sharing in the life of God. We don’t do things because its expected of us or because we’re tying to impress God or the Church. We shouldn’t do something because it passes some metric such as “reverence”.

If the Bishop of that diocese stated that kneeling was the norm, but you could stand if you wanted, would you not stand?

As I stated in my previous post, I consulted with the bishop in another matter which I believe I was called by God to do. The bishop said that he advises that I drop the matter. And I did. What do you think I will do in this manner?

 

[anp1215]

I like CAF apologist Michelle Arnold’s answer to this:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=486668&highlight=kneeling

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=488083&highlight=kneeling+communion

I think it clarifies what Constantine is trying to say.

 

[zab]

But what is the attitude behind not liking that I choose to receive kneeling? If it is allowed, then what is the problem? I feel that I am repeating myself, but my point is, if that is the way I feel led to receive and it is allowed, then why do some CAF members have an issue?

I’m not sure if you are still attending a Latin Rite Parish, but since you believe that standing is more reverent based on Eastern theology, let’s put the shoe on the other foot.

If the Bishop of that diocese stated that kneeling was the norm, but you could stand if you wanted, would you not stand?

It is not that I have an issue with your decision to kneel. It is that you have an issue with my decision to stand. It seems that some are looking too deeply to find fault where there is none. My understanding and my decision to follow the norm, must mean, they seem to think, that it is an insult toward those who choose to kneel.

 

[TrueLight]

If you are at peace with it, then go and be.

Thank you.

We do things because it bears fruit in our life which ultimately lead us to sharing in the life of God.

Exactly.

We don’t do things because its expected of us or because we’re trying to impress God or the Church.

You’re making a judgment here of my motives.

How would I be impressing members of an OF mass, when I would obviously be sticking out. I doubt anyone would applaud that. As for impressing God, God knows my heart and my strengths and failings. I can’t hide anything from him.

We shouldn’t do something because it passes some metric such as “reverence”.

Don’t make me have to go dig up the quote on why you prefer to stand.

Whether you used the word “reverence” or not, the idea is the same.

If I feel I am being more reverent by kneeling, then that is what I feel. As long as I am not judging anyone else’s heart.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thank you.

Exactly.

You’re making a judgment here of my motives.

How would I be impressing members of an OF mass, when I would obviously be sticking out. I doubt anyone would applaud that. As for impressing God, God knows my heart and my strengths and failings. I can’t hide anything from him.

Sorry but you are being defensive here. I am talking about the reason why we stand. It has nothing to do about what you do or why you do it. The flow of the conversation that I responded to was why Eastern Christians stand for Communion. Nothing more, nothing less. Think one issue on this entire thread is people reading too much into what others are saying. We have to understand the context of every conversation because sometimes we apply something that isn’t mean to be for another topic, and what happens is feelings get hurt. I’m not judging you with what I said. In fact, I wasn’t even talking about you.

Don’t make me have to go dig up the quote on why you prefer to stand.

Yes there is legal presedence for it in the canons of the Council of Nicea. But here’s the funny thing, one time I was with a group of Ukrainian Catholics and this one person came from a rather Latinized parish. She was at our parish visiting and she said she felt akward about wanting to kneel and everyone remained standing for the Anaphora and Communion prayers. Everyone in the group including myself gave answers why we stand up for Communion. I gave the canon from the Council as my reason. Everyone gave a profound explanation which the Bishop has taught them. Who’s Latinized now? Like I said, legalism points is to the right way, but is not the path itself.

Whether you used the word “reverence” or not, the idea is the same.

No, because reverence is subjective. That is why I call it a metric. What is more reverent? Who judges reverence? How do we know one is more reverent than the other? In the Eastern praxis, every physical sign or action should point to a spiritual truth. Its not about reverence. What is reverence for? To make God feel good with what we are doing for Him? That is not our goal in life. Like I said the last post, we are not here to impress God with what we do. We do something because we want to be like God, because God wants us to relaim our nature of being in His image and likeness.

If I feel I am being more reverent by kneeling, then that is what I feel. As long as I am not judging anyone else’s heart.

Then you need to clarify that with the other posters here who feel you think that you think they are less for standing for Communion.

 

[TrueLight]

I like CAF apologist Michelle Arnold’s answer to this:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=486668&highlight=kneeling

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=488083&highlight=kneeling+communion

I think it clarifies what Constantine is trying to say.

That answer was before the update to the GIRM.

 

[TrueLight]

Sorry but you are being defensive here. I am talking about the reason why we stand. It has nothing to do about what you do or why you do it. The flow of the conversation that I responded to was why Eastern Christians stand for Communion. Nothing more, nothing less. Think one issue on this entire thread is people reading too much into what others are saying. We have to understand the context of every conversation because sometimes we apply something that isn’t mean to be for another topic, and what happens is feelings get hurt. I’m not judging you with what I said. In fact, I wasn’t even talking about you.

Yes there is legal presedence for it in the canons of the Council of Nicea. But here’s the funny thing, one time I was with a group of Ukrainian Catholics and this one person came from a rather Latinized parish. She was at our parish visiting and she said she felt akward about wanting to kneel and everyone remained standing for the Anaphora and Communion prayers. Everyone in the group including myself gave answers why we stand up for Communion. I gave the canon from the Council as my reason. Everyone gave a profound explanation which the Bishop has taught them. Who’s Latinized now? Like I said, legalism points is to the right way, but is not the path itself.

No, because reverence is subjective. That is why I call it a metric. What is more reverent? Who judges reverence? How do we know one is more reverent than the other? In the Eastern praxis, every physical sign or action should point to a spiritual truth. Its not about reverence. What is reverence for? To make God feel good with what we are doing for Him? That is not our goal in life. Like I said the last post, we are not here to impress God with what we do. We do something because we want to be like God, because God wants us to relaim our nature of being in His image and likeness.

Then you need to clarify that with the other posters here who feel you think that you think they are less for standing for Communion.

I’m at work and I can’t really answer as I want to, but I will get back to you.

 

[anp1215]

That answer was before the update to the GIRM.

I looked for the update. Is this what you’re talking about? This was the only site I could find about it, in which the author writes that “In other words, when people kneel to receive Almighty GOD, priests and other ministers are to give Communion to the person and keep their mouths shut.” I hate to link to such a rude article, but it was the only one I could find. wdtprs.com/blog/2011/06/what-does-girm-160-for-the-usa-really-say/

If so, I didn’t realize that GIRM 160 had been updated. Thanks for letting me know. I wish EWTN would show the updated version. I use their site, which contains the “old” version so I did not know about that update.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I looked for the update. Is this what you’re talking about? This was the only site I could find about it, in which the author writes that “In other words, when people kneel to receive Almighty GOD, priests and other ministers are to give Communion to the person and keep their mouths shut.” I hate to link to such a rude article, but it was the only one I could find. wdtprs.com/blog/2011/06/what-does-girm-160-for-the-usa-really-say/

If so, I didn’t realize that GIRM 160 had been updated. Thanks for letting me know. I wish EWTN would show the updated version. I use their site, which contains the “old” version so I did not know about that update.

What I am not sure of is if the updated GIRM is in effect, or if it will go into effect when the new translation gets implemented on the First Sunday of Advent. I’m sure someone will read this and give the answer.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m at work and I can’t really answer as I want to, but I will get back to you.

AHA! Surfing while working!!!

Me too

 

[anp1215]

AHA! Surfing while working!!!

Me too

Back to work, the both of ya!!!

 

[Will_S]

I think all those who prefer to stand for communion should really look into your motives and make sure you aren’t choosing to stand out of pride or a desire to make yourself look more holy than you really are. It may be better to just kneel to combat any inclination to self-righteousness.

 

[TrueLight]

Timothy,

Good post, even though I don’t agree with most of what you posted.

I defer to the norm at the parish, which is standing, and assume that my pride was what made me want to kneel.

For you that might be the case. You know yourself and your thoughts.

The truth is that Jesus Christ will not call us to judgment about whether we knelt or stood for communion. Rather he will call us to judgement about how are hearts were disposed at that moment we dared to approach the altar where he is made present and dared to receive him.

Agreed, and if that outward sign helps my heart to be disposed, so be it.

He will call us to judgement about whether, in the face of His own extreme humility in being nailed to a cross for our sins - yours and mine personally - and in the face of His own humility in coming to us under the appearance of bread and wine, whether we stood there and insisted that our own rights be respected. He will call us to judgement on whether we insisted that our own will be done, even as we recieved him who sweat blood in the garden yet said, “Not mine, but thy will be done” and then begged God to forgive the people who were murdering him

Or he might judge those who insist that some should not receive kneeling. I find it hilarious that those of you debating with me don’t see that our views are two sides to one coin.

 

[anp1215]

I think all those who prefer to stand for communion should really look into your motives and make sure you aren’t choosing to stand out of pride or a desire to make yourself look more holy than you really are. It may be better to just kneel to combat any inclination to self-righteousness.

…what?

 

[TrueLight]

Sorry but you are being defensive here. I am talking about the reason why we stand. It has nothing to do about what you do or why you do it.

I apologize if you were not speaking to me directly.

I think both sides are defensive. Once someone starts talking about kneeling for communion or COTT, the hackles raise.

In the Eastern praxis, every physical sign or action should point to a spiritual truth.

Do you kneel in front of your boss? Why not? That would be embarrassingly submissive and awkward for the both of you. Just the act of kneeling is a sign of submission and submission to God is a spiritual truth.

Its not about reverence. What is reverence for? To make God feel good with what we are doing for Him? That is not our goal in life.

My goal in life is to serve God in all humility as he deserves. We are speaking of the Alpha and the Omega-- the one with eyes like burning coals. Just because Jesus is also our friend does not mean “every knee shall bow” does not apply!

Then you need to clarify that with the other posters here who feel you think that you think they are less for standing for Communion.

It’s no secret how I feel about the topic. However, there are countless debate threads on this and that was not the purpose of my original post. I am not comfortable receiving standing and in the hand. Finito.

Now, I’ll see you at the confessional because we both have to confess surfing while working.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

I am on a mini break, and went to an OF Mass at an older church this evening. The priest that celebrated Mass had people go to the rail for Communion with one of his altar servers assisting him like at EF Masses. Most everyone received on the tongue and kneeling at the rail, including myself even though it was my first time doing that at an OF Mass but I am used to doing so at EF Masses. I would have no issue if this became the norm at OF Mass.

Has any one gone to an OF Mass and received kneeling/on the tongue at the rail (or similar setup)?

---

Whast you descrtirbe is optional and not mandary. You have a right to kneel of stand. You priest better refer to his references.

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU

jr

 

[A2SciTeach]

The situation as described by the OP does not in any way state that the priest is denying anyone communion who is not coming to the rail. I go to a church (possibly the same one the OP went to in SE Michigan) that uses an altar rail for both EF and OF masses.

The priest distributes Communion to everyone who chooses to kneel at the rail and receive on the tongue. People who choose to stand merely stand in the middle where the rails separate to form an entrance to the sanctuary. Those people may receive in the hand or on the tongue whichever they choose. It works out very well.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I apologize if you were not speaking to me directly.

I think both sides are defensive. Once someone starts talking about kneeling for communion or COTT, the hackles raise.

I think people (and I’m saying everyone) should think twice before they post. The problem is a lot of people think that just because they are right, they can do and say whatever they want without thinking about how other people would feel or think.

Do you kneel in front of your boss? Why not? That would be embarrassingly submissive and awkward for the both of you. Just the act of kneeling is a sign of submission and submission to God is a spiritual truth.

Why do we need to embarrass ourselves before God?

My goal in life is to serve God in all humility as he deserves. We are speaking of the Alpha and the Omega-- the one with eyes like burning coals. Just because Jesus is also our friend does not mean “every knee shall bow” does not apply!

How does standing contradict anything you said? And how do you know what God deserves?

It’s no secret how I feel about the topic. However, there are countless debate threads on this and that was not the purpose of my original post. I am not comfortable receiving standing and in the hand. Finito.

Earlier you are talking about humility, and not you want to do what is comfortable?

Now, I’ll see you at the confessional because we both have to confess surfing while working.

I don’t see how surfing while working warrants a confession. But I will discuss that with my confessor. I’m being paid to deliver work, and it doesn’t matter how I get work done as long as I get it done. Its the IT mantra. Our boss even set-up an xbox in the office.