Kneeling

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

AnnieM

Guest
The congregation at my church does not kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God). Is it considered a liturgical abuse to stand from the Great Amen all the way through until after receiving Communion?

Love,
Anne
 
40.png
AnnieM:
The congregation at my church does not kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God). Is it considered a liturgical abuse to stand from the Great Amen all the way through until after receiving Communion?QUOTE]

Yes, it is acceptable to stand.

In Mass Confussion by Akin:

The rubrics do not specify kneeling at this point. Therefore, it is not a liturgical abuse for a priest to ask the congregation to remain standing during this, in accordance with the rubrics and the worldwide practice.
 
This is taken from the GIRM #43:

The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei ** unless the Diocesan Bishop** determines otherwise.

Your Bishop has apparently decided to have everyone remain standing, as our Bishop is going to do.
 
40.png
dantheman:
This is taken from the GIRM #43:

The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei ** unless the Diocesan Bishop** determines otherwise.

Your Bishop has apparently decided to have everyone remain standing, as our Bishop is going to do.
Would it disobedient to kneel if that was the case?
 
40.png
AnnieM:
The congregation at my church does not kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God). Is it considered a liturgical abuse to stand from the Great Amen all the way through until after receiving Communion?

Love,
Anne
Have you asked them why they do not kneel?
 
40.png
alcovey:
Would it disobedient to kneel if that was the case?
Yes, it would be disobedient to kneel, against the decision of the Bishop. It would also be contrary to the nature of the Sacred Liturgy, as a unified, public prayer of the Church - not our private preferences.

The Bishop is the chief Guardian of the Mysteries of God in his Diocese, the High Priest of his flock and has legitimate authority over all liturgical matters within his competence, which this issue explicitly is.

We must “cling to our Bishop as the Church does to Jesus Christ, and as Jesus Christ does to the Father” (Lumen Gentium)
 
Nowhere did the poster say this was a decision by her Bishop, she simply said her congregation.
 
40.png
dantheman:
Your Bishop has apparently …
Ok, dumn question…

How can you find out these details for a particular diocese? Like the Arch-diocese of Chicago for example?
 
40.png
CatholicGeek:
Ok, dumn question…

How can you find out these details for a particular diocese? Like the Arch-diocese of Chicago for example?
Every diocese or archdiocese has an office of liturgy or divine worship. You might want to check out their website for who to call. Go here www.archchicago.org
 
No, cmom, I have never asked, and yes it is only my congregation, but I have only been to my Church and then a traditionalist one that still uses Communion rails. It’s hard to say which one is not following the Bishop.

I’m in the archdiocese of Detroit, anyone know the website?

Love,
Annie
 
Before anyone thinks I am making a judgement, I LOVE the Communion rails. That is why I go there sometimes 😃
 
Nowhere are we told to stand until the tabernacle is closed.

That too, is not specified in the GIRM, in fact the there is a dubium saying we could kneel or sit as previous custom dictates.

In fact, they are trying to force that in the Erie diocese as well.
 
40.png
Trevelyan:
Yes, it would be disobedient to kneel, against the decision of the Bishop. It would also be contrary to the nature of the Sacred Liturgy, as a unified, public prayer of the Church - not our private preferences.

The Bishop is the chief Guardian of the Mysteries of God in his Diocese, the High Priest of his flock and has legitimate authority over all liturgical matters within his competence, which this issue explicitly is.

We must “cling to our Bishop as the Church does to Jesus Christ, and as Jesus Christ does to the Father” (Lumen Gentium)
Thanks, Trevelyan,

This has not happened yet, but our diocese is working through these issues now, and our local custom (mostly) has been to kneel at the Lamb of God - but they are working hard to change it to standing only.

Another sticking point is kneeling to receive Communion - the norm is to stand, but I thought it was still ok to kneel, as per Rome. But we have people being demoted from positions and refused Communion because they kneel. Why is the Lamb of God issue different than kneeling for Communion? Or are they being disobedient in both cases? Also, it looks like receiving on the tongue may be the next issue they target. I guess you see my concern.

Allen
 
40.png
alcovey:
Thanks, Trevelyan,

This has not happened yet, but our diocese is working through these issues now, and our local custom (mostly) has been to kneel at the Lamb of God - but they are working hard to change it to standing only.

Another sticking point is kneeling to receive Communion - the norm is to stand, but I thought it was still ok to kneel, as per Rome. But we have people being demoted from positions and refused Communion because they kneel. Why is the Lamb of God issue different than kneeling for Communion? Or are they being disobedient in both cases? Also, it looks like receiving on the tongue may be the next issue they target. I guess you see my concern.

Allen
If a priest or EM is refusing Communion to someone because he kneels, you should address that with the priest or, if necessary, the diocese. Denying Communion because of posture (standing or kneeling) is expressly forbidden in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

I am not aware of a similar statement regarding kneeling or standing after the agnus dei. The decision is left to the Bishop and we ought to follow his directive whether it be standing or kneeling after the agnus dei.
 
Our diocese (Orlando) instituted standing after the Lamb of God and through Communion until the tabernacle is closed at the beginning of last Advent. It is the Bishops interpretation of the current GIRM. Pesonally, I truly dislike it, however, I cannot be directly disobedient to something that I know is not a true abuse. Now, standing through the Consecration, that would be another story!

Interesting to note, I have only checked with a few other parishes in the diocese and so far our parish is the only parish that is adhering to the Bishops directive.
 
JC Nixon,

Good post. My feelings are the same. Fortunately, our bishop has not instituted this change. I think you are doing the right thing by following his directive despite your personal feelings! 🙂
 
40.png
Ham1:
If a priest or EM is refusing Communion to someone because he kneels, you should address that with the priest or, if necessary, the diocese. Denying Communion because of posture (standing or kneeling) is expressly forbidden in Redemptionis Sacramentum.
They talked to the (visiting) priest on refusing him Communion and he apolgized. The next step was: the Pastoral Administrator approached him and forbid him to kneel, and when he continued, he was not allowed to serve as altar boy any longer.
I am not aware of a similar statement regarding kneeling or standing after the agnus dei. The decision is left to the Bishop and we ought to follow his directive whether it be standing or kneeling after the agnus dei.
I probably will need to write a letter to my bishop - because there is a growing intolerance toward anything Traditional. I’m personally in the middle on a lot of these things, but I don’t think it’s right to force our views on each other.

Allen
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top