Knights Helping Refugees at the Border

[MiserereMeiDei]

It is historic, not for prevention of ingress.

Truly curious, what’s it for? Grandiosity?

We might use the same reasoning to dismiss any border wall because we already have gated communities with walls

I think they’d like a larger gated community than your thinking.

 

[TheLittleLady]

In my actual life, I know political operatives, Democrat Party officials, and I have never met a person who is for open borders. While I am sure they exist, they are rare as unicorns.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Truly curious, what’s it for? Grandiosity?

It is similar to why you might have a gate around your back yard. To mark a property line, in some parts to give the private citizens of the Vatican some privacy from the tourists.

 

[EricF]

So let me get this straight. Works of charity and mercy are well and good, just as long as they meet all the tenets of the One Holy Right-Wing Gospel? There really should be some sort of hotline folks could call for the proper permissions to help.

 

[Theo520]

In my actual life, I know political operatives, Democrat Party officials, and I have never met a person who is for open borders. While I am sure they exist, they are rare as unicorns.

I’d say many are for unfettered or greatly expanded immigration, not ‘open borders’. In practice it’s the same thing though, in terms of impacts to the economy and strain of Govt resources.

 

[dochawk]

Those that are asking for asylum are not here illegally, they’re following a legitimate, legal process.

Those that apply at the border, yes.

Significant numbers, though, are sneaking across and only apply if caught (called “Defensive asylum claim” in immigration court).

I couldn’t tell you what the ratio is in the current groups.

It sounds like you are suggesting an underground railroad, run by the Knights.

That is an objectively unreasonable characterization of his comments (as well as uncharitable). Feeding, even sheltering, someone is not the same thing as smuggling.

Now, if the KofC handed out sheets telling people at a shelter to head to 123 E. West St, Brownsville, as their next stop, that would be an entirely different situation. But that’s not what we’re talking about . . .

I refused to become a Knight when asked for reasons like this, and if this is what they are then I am glad to report that I have heard many say the organization will age out soon and go away.

An amazing profession of ignorance . . . the KofC are feeding the hungry, not smuggling.

Frankly, as someone active in the leadership of the Knights, I’d rather not have someone who can’t tell the difference . . .

And, btw, we’re pretty much the only fraternal organization that is actually growing at the moment . .

I felt McGiveny was being used to justify helping illegals. I don’t think that is honest.

Let’s get specific here.

Suppose a presumed illegal is staggering through your front yard, delirious from hydration. Do you give him water, or chase him off?

So why bring up that the Irish were helped because they were legal? There was no way to be illegal.

That is incorrect.

Various diseases, insanity, being a drunkard, and a likelihood to become a public charge (among others) have been grounds for exclusion since the beginning of the Republic.

Because they weren’t illegal. So it is a fallacy to say the Knights have helped illegals from Day 1.

Never mind that noone has claimed that . . .

 

[dochawk]

I would love to know the extent that he was helping his community, vs outside his community on a nationwide basis, the way that Catholics tend to do now. Any experts here on the life of Fr. McGivney?

He was already a member of the AOH when he founded the Knights, and wanted to extend such protection to all Catholics.

Keep in mind that at the time, while Irish were at the absolute bottom of the social scale, other Catholics weren’t doing much better (although, unlike the Irish, generally were of higher status than slaves, rather than lower . . .).

From whatever country, Catholics held the most dangerous jobs, and had far to many widows and orphans (which is the source of the insurance emphasis that the knights have to this day . . . initially, each member was expected to put in $5 whenever a member died . . .)

The AOH in America at the time could fairly be described as “Irish self defense”, and the KofC “Catholic self defense.”

Also aimed at restricting legal immigration of the poor.

Also, as I mentioned above, a constant principle since the beginning of the Republic . . .

Who are they? For a thing to be illegal a law is required prohibiting it. Was there such a law?

I don’t think it’s still the case, but for decades, the second largest group of illegal aliens was Irish who had overstayed visas to avoid going back (particularly to Northern Ireland)

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

They needed asylum since Brits wanted to kill them in the womb… and out of it.

 

[Theo520]

That is an objectively unreasonable characterization of his comments (as well as uncharitable). Feeding, even sheltering, someone is not the same thing as smuggling.

The underground railroad was just a string of homes that fed and sheltered, they didn’t smuggle. My comparison is apt if that’s what the Knights are going to do for people who have crossed the border. We really need more details on what they plan.

I’m completely behind the UN, KofC, and other NGO’s supporting camps on the Mexico side of the border as they await processing.

 

[dochawk]

The underground railroad was just a string of homes that fed and sheltered, they didn’t smuggle

They provided direction to the next stop and travel assistance, too.

And rightly so.

We really need more details on what they plan.

No person of good faith can suggest that the KofC will be smuggling, or that he needs to hear whether or not we will do that, any more than we need to announce that we’re not coming out against the pledge of allegiance next week . .

 

[LeafByNiggle]

TheLittleLady:

In my actual life, I know political operatives, Democrat Party officials, and I have never met a person who is for open borders. While I am sure they exist, they are rare as unicorns.

I’d say many are for unfettered or greatly expanded immigration, not ‘open borders’. In practice it’s the same thing though, in terms of impacts to the economy and strain of Govt resources.

There is more than one way to look at the “cost to society” question:

Are Immigrants a Drain on Government Resources? - The Atlantic

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

No doubt the charge of racism was made in all charity.

 

[CTBcin]

But not the US government’s camps on our side of the border for the same purpose, we don’t want to help those brown people once they are on our land. God intended it for whites.

I think your sarcasm is on point. The K of C have stated that they are providing food, water, and other basic needs to immigrants at the border. That’s it. They’re not arguing for open borders or trying to smuggle people. This is something we should all be able to get behind, despite our differing political opinions. They’re in “our” land illegally? So what? Does that make them less worthy of our charity?

Have we been so blinded by partisan politics that basic Christian charity has gone out the window?

 

[Theo520]

No person of good faith can suggest that the KofC will be smuggling,

I was questioning another poster on what aid they were going to supply, I pointed out an extreme end to it vs driving them to the nearest ICE agent. Don’t misrepresent what I’ve said.

If we were talking ‘slave’, I would help the Knights smuggle people.
If we were talking people being persecuted and facing death for their beliefs, I would also help the Knights smuggle people.

But we are talking about economic migrants, not refugees.

 

[tafan2]

All charity? I won’t claim that, but some level of charity? I hope so. When one is criticizing good deeds on such flimsy grounds as which side of the border it occurs, something is wrong. A little sarcasm can sometimes help one see that.

Again, there is zero indications the knights are helping anyone who has done something illegal.
Although I would not mind if they are, that is not the case based on the facts we know. So why the continual criticizing them, to the point it matters which side of the river they are on?

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

A little sarcasm can sometimes help one see that.

A charge of racism is a pretty strong indictment, particularly in the current political climate. I don’t think it’s impossible to take at face value his concern for illegal immigration.

Again, there is zero indications the knights are helping anyone who has done something illegal.

I agree. He even said so long as they aren’t he supports the efforts of the Knights.

Although I would not mind if they are, that is not the case based on the facts we know.

I agree with you. Though my preference would be to help them in their own countries, they are here now and we have a Christian obligation to help those in need.

So why the continual criticizing them, to the point it matters which side of the river they are on?

I suspect because he feels that it is imperative that the migrants obey US immigration law and he’s worried that perhaps the Knights will encourage more immigrants to violate immigration laws. I’m only guessing, mind you.

 

[dochawk]

But we are talking about economic migrants, not refugees.

More importantly, we’re not talking about smuggling, the comparison to an Underground Railroad is offensive, and there is no good faith suggestion that the Knights are involved in any such thing.

 

[pnewton]

If I was engaging in an existential struggle against a nation and a people I would understand that someone might be happy to see my compatriots and I “age out” and go away.

But you said that about the Knights of Columbus for goodness sake. This sort of anti-Catholic rhetoric has no place here. I would hope all here will recognize this for what it is, and all the brother Knights here will respond accordingly.

 

[pnewton]

I think this should be posted daily until Christians here understand what Jesus is teaching.

Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[YourNameHere]

God tells us to love and serve our brothers and sisters. That is the second rule. The first is to give glory and praise to God in all that we say and do.