Knights Hid Holy Shroud, Vatican Says

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OneTrueCathApos said:
Ashamed? My dear friend, you wouldn’t even have a bible if it weren’t for the Catholics. Furthermore, I don’t appreciate your put downs and your insults because you are not Catholic. I AM 100% PROUD TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC AND WOULDN’T WANT TO BE ANYTHING ELSE. Thank God for the Crusades or YOU WOULD BE MUSLIM. BTW, thank God for the Knights Templar who knew enough to protect the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. You have quite the nerve buddy…:mad:
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You realize you’re talking to an Orthodox Christian, right? Your response makes zero sense in light of that. You might want to save that kind of stuff for protestants. :rolleyes:
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Ashamed? My dear friend, you wouldn’t even have a bible if it weren’t for the Catholics. Furthermore, I don’t appreciate your put downs and your insults because you are not Catholic. I AM 100% PROUD TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC AND WOULDN’T WANT TO BE ANYTHING ELSE. Thank God for the Crusades or YOU WOULD BE MUSLIM. BTW, thank God for the Knights Templar who knew enough to protect the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. You have quite the nerve buddy…:mad:
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Do you know what happened in the Fourth Crusade? It was one of the most shameful moments in Christendom. The Pope was ashamed and excommunicated the Crusaders for what they did. Instead of going to Jerusalem, they went to Constantinople and destroyed it for money, smashing the bulwark of Europe that had held the line since the 600’s.

Regardless of how one feels about other crusades, nothing good came out of the fourth one.
 
Iwesshome said:
I don’t think they kept it “safe” but more for leverage of power. Remember the KT were very wealthy and powerful at their peak.This is the same Catholic Church in which Pope Clement V issued Pastoralis Praeeminentiae giving all monarchs the right to arrest and seize the wealth of the KT. The majority were tortured into confession, some tried for heresy (among other things) and some executed. It would be interesting to see what the CC has to say about the cloth and whether carbon dating can p(name removed by moderator)oint its age.
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Hi, Iwesshome. 👋

I heard you mention the Knights Templar. To that… I would like to invite you to read the February 2009 edition of This Rock magazine’s Feature Article on the entire history of the Knights Templar. The article covers the papal bull to which you refer.

The article is titled The Sad History of the Knights Templar, by Christopher Check.

The entire 200 or so years that they fought to preserve Christian areas from the onslaught of the attacking Muslims now ended due to political moves of King Philip the Fair—grandson of St. Louis of France—had engineered the election of the pope and the relocation of the papal court to Avignon. Although the papacy may have been in the ambitious king’s pocket, one of the most powerful and wealthy institutions of the day was not: The Order of the Temple. Philip knew its vast wealth and schemed to seize it.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
** You have quite the nerve buddy…:mad:**
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You shall not steal
Exodus 20:15 NAB

You shall not steal
Exodus 20:15 RSV-CE “Ignatius Bible”

Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:15 Douay-Rhiems

non furtum facies**
**Exodus 20:15 Vulgata

BTW, superbia is one of the seven deadly sins.

Pax et Bonum,
*Buddy, *that sinner
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Ashamed? My dear friend, you wouldn’t even have a bible if it weren’t for the Catholics. :mad:
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Exactly.

Roman Catholics wouldn’t even have a Bible if it weren’t for us, Orthodox Catholics, that you call “Eastern Orthodox”. BTW, you know New Testament is written in Greek, and translated to Latin some ages afterwards?
OneTrueCathApos said:
Thank God for the Crusades or YOU WOULD BE MUSLIM. …:mad:
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Muslims are grateful for the 4th Crusade, that paved them the way to accomplish in 15th century what they haven’t managed under Muaviah some 7 centuries before.

BTW, dozens of millions of Christians managed to remain such under the Muslim yoke.
 
I don’t really see how this is anything to be proud of. I agree with Lujack and Hesychios’ posts. This is probably not going to win me any friends at all, but I often think that a big stumbling block to talk of reunification with the Orthodox would exist regarding these relics, even if the two Churches were one in theology. The looted treasures of the East no more belong to the West than did the Obelisk of Axum to the Italians. The Italians eventually got the right idea and returned the Obelisk to the Ethiopians in 2003.
 
Hi again Mark i trust thanks to the grace of God you and yours are well,

Jesus (pbwh) gave a catholic church not Catholic read the creed if you want clarification.
but we are truly proud of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that Jesus gave us! We are proud of the Communion of Saints and the incredibly beautiful Traditions of the Church.
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Do you have all and only what was given?
were you given error?
does she have any error?
if she does you do you see the pure jewel you speak of and if you do stand and cast out all that is not and if she is worthy of pride all will hearken immediately to your word.

You are right in using we
I AM 100% PROUD TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC AND WOULDN’T WANT TO BE ANYTHING ELSE.
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This is why I am so very proud to be Catholic
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But we is not all,
I love the Catholic church and its members so very much, I am proud of Gods presence in her, i am blessed to be among her members.

I seek not to debate at length with you all on this as I am only to offer youes we differ.

The LORD tears down the proud man’s house but he keeps the widow’s boundaries intact.
The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.
Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud.
The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled),
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud,
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

I know the context you all offer is a little different so be proud in God, proud of her the true church at foundation, but be not proud of that that is not today perfect for not perfect is not God.
If you think she is perfect how will see the time of the next coming for it will be in a cloud, only a humble heart will see and hear.
 
THIS THREAD IS SO FAR FROM THE LEFT THAT I REFUSE TO COMMENT ANY FURTHER. THIS IS ABOUT THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR AND WHAT THEY DID IN PRESERVING THE BURIAL CLOTH OF JESUS CHRIST. IF I WANTED IT TO BE ABOUT THE CRUSADES, I WOULD OF TITLED IT THE CRUSADES.
NON-CATHOLICS HAVE NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING EVER GOOD TO SAY ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND I AM TIRED OF IT. YOUR INSULTS, AND INUENDOS, YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE SCRIPTURES ARE APALLING AND I WILL NO LONGER DIGNIFY ANY MORE RESPONSES. Christ founded the Catholic church and that’s that. One church, one Universal church, the Orthodox broke away as did everyone else but we are guided by the Holy spirit and we will prevail, just as Jesus said. Goodbye and have a nice life of false doctrine.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
THIS THREAD IS SO FAR FROM THE LEFT THAT I REFUSE TO COMMENT ANY FURTHER. THIS IS ABOUT THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR AND WHAT THEY DID IN PRESERVING THE BURIAL CLOTH OF JESUS CHRIST. IF I WANTED IT TO BE ABOUT THE CRUSADES, I WOULD OF TITLED IT THE CRUSADES.
NON-CATHOLICS HAVE NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING EVER GOOD TO SAY ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND I AM TIRED OF IT. YOUR INSULTS, AND INUENDOS, YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE SCRIPTURES ARE APALLING AND I WILL NO LONGER DIGNIFY ANY MORE RESPONSES. Christ founded the Catholic church and that’s that. One church, one Universal church, the Orthodox broke away as did everyone else but we are guided by the Holy spirit and we will prevail, just as Jesus said. Goodbye and have a nice life of false doctrine.
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🤷 No offense OneTrueCathApos but grow up some.
 
Dear OneTrueCathApos,
Soz for my part i was keen on your thread but got de railed at post #18 I need to learn not to get goated.
May God bless and guide you and yours as yous submit unto Him.
 
Concerning the Knights Templar, I wonder why they felt compelled to hide the shroud. There were no Protestants in those days, they had to have been hiding it from fellow Catholics.

Perhaps they were afraid they would have to give it back to Constantinople, or some higher ecclesiastical or political power in the west would claim it for itself.

It is clearly not a case over money, they could never have sold it. The main source of the wealth of the knights was the large amount of early donations they received when they began crusading, and their banking acumen in the years since. They became essentially a big bank lending money at interest, with holdings in ships and land.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
THIS THREAD IS SO FAR FROM THE LEFT THAT I REFUSE TO COMMENT ANY FURTHER. THIS IS ABOUT THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR AND WHAT THEY DID IN PRESERVING THE BURIAL CLOTH OF JESUS CHRIST. IF I WANTED IT TO BE ABOUT THE CRUSADES, I WOULD OF TITLED IT THE CRUSADES.
NON-CATHOLICS HAVE NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING EVER GOOD TO SAY ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND I AM TIRED OF IT. YOUR INSULTS, AND INUENDOS, YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE SCRIPTURES ARE APALLING AND I WILL NO LONGER DIGNIFY ANY MORE RESPONSES. Christ founded the Catholic church and that’s that. One church, one Universal church, the Orthodox broke away as did everyone else but we are guided by the Holy spirit and we will prevail, just as Jesus said. Goodbye and have a nice life of false doctrine.
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Thanks! God bless you too! 🙂
 
So much yelling…I wish this board had some sort of application that could pop up every time someone posted more than one line in all caps or bold to say something like “You’re about to look like a screaming child - are you sure that’s the image you want others to have of you?”
 
Right_Glory said:
You realize you’re talking to an Orthodox Christian, right? Your response makes zero sense in light of that. You might want to save that kind of stuff for protestants. :rolleyes:
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Oh please don’t redirect that rant to us! :eek:
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
IF I WANTED IT TO BE ABOUT THE CRUSADES, I WOULD OF TITLED IT THE CRUSADES.
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Your whole OP is about how the Shroud was “protected” by the Knights Templar after “mysteriously disappearing” during the Fourth Crusade. :rolleyes:

Don’t open a door if you’re not prepared for what’s behind it. 😉
 
Hesychios said:
Concerning the Knights Templar, I wonder why they felt compelled to hide the shroud. There were no Protestants in those days, they had to have been hiding it from fellow Catholics.

Perhaps they were afraid they would have to give it back to Constantinople, or some higher ecclesiastical or political power in the west would claim it for itself.

It is clearly not a case over money, they could never have sold it. The main source of the wealth of the knights was the large amount of early donations they received when they began crusading, and their banking acumen in the years since. They became essentially a big bank lending money at interest, with holdings in ships and land.
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Hello, hesychios! 😃

My understanding is that the Knights Templar … who for a couple of centuries were protecting Christian people and areas the best that they could from the Muslim hoards who were trying to overtake many regions… would have been protecting the Shroud from being captured in battle.

I don’t know… have you had a chance yet to read the article at the February 2009 issue of This Rock magazine to which I posted a link in my message #24 on this board that talks about the history of the Knights Templar… from beginning to end? Although I didn’t see in that article a mention about the Shroud, itself… but it seems to me that the last thing that the Knights Templar were about are things that some folks believe would be true without proof. I’m not talking about you, per se. Just some folks, in general. Not everybody.

:confused: :oQuick question… I’m fascinated by an adjective that you use to describe yourself in your bio on this board. Could you please tell me what this means?

schmo-dog

Just curious. I’m very much into words… especially because I’m a professional writer (for non-fiction – business policies and procedures).

Thank you kindly, hesychios! 👍 for your gentle and polite posting… as well as for whatever you can tell me about the meaning of that adjective – schmo-dog.
 
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