Knights of Columbus and the SSPX

[Stylites]

Here I go wishing there were a female equivalent of the Knights again. Aside from doing work for the the Church and Catholicism, maybe these ladies would wear hats with a single giant feather on top, a black ruffled tops with long, red skirts. They would wear buckled Mary Janes, and you would hear the clickety-clack of their heels when they hosted functions.

They would have all sorts of cool secret rituals too.

:knight2:

Go for it, TL! Knightettes of the True Light has a ring to it.

 

[freshwind]

Go for it, TL! Knightettes of the True Light has a ring to it.

SSHHHH

in our council they are lovingly referred to as “the ladies of the knights”

it is truly a non-offensive phrase in our group because absolutely everything we do outside of the general meetings is 100% family friendly - wives and children are welcome at every fundraising function and parish activity

the Knights were called the “right arm of the Church” by JP II … a solid Catholic organization…do we have faults and weaknesses? yeppir…we are a group of sinners like everyone else trying to forge out our salvation within the Catholic Church through service to our Pope, Holy Mother Church and our brothers and sisters in need

I find it truly humbling to work with some of these men and their unfailing loyalty and fidelity to the Church

 

[jbarbaretta]

Here I go wishing there were a female equivalent of the Knights again. Aside from doing work for the the Church and Catholicism, maybe these ladies would wear hats with a single giant feather on top, a black ruffled tops with long, red skirts. They would wear buckled Mary Janes, and you would hear the clickety-clack of their heels when they hosted functions.

They would have all sorts of cool secret rituals too.

:knight2:

Have you checked out the Knights and Dames of Malta?

 

[Stylites]

the Knights were called the “right arm of the Church” by JP II … a solid Catholic organization…do we have faults and weaknesses? yeppir…we are a group of sinners like everyone else trying to forge out our salvation within the Catholic Church through service to our Pope, Holy Mother Church and our brothers and sisters in need

I find it truly humbling to work with some of these men and their unfailing loyalty and fidelity to the Church

The Knights: Building up the body of Christ and expanding the Kingdom of God, one charitable act at a time . . . as opposed to standing at a pulpit telling people how much more virtuous and reverent they are than all those other other poor saps who ‘sin’ by attending a local parish Mass.

 

[Melchior_1]

Here I go wishing there were a female equivalent of the Knights again. Aside from doing work for the the Church and Catholicism, maybe these ladies would wear hats with a single giant feather on top, a black ruffled tops with long, red skirts. They would wear buckled Mary Janes, and you would hear the clickety-clack of their heels when they hosted functions.

They would have all sorts of cool secret rituals too.

:knight2:

In Canada we have a little group called the Catholic Women’s League. They do trivial things like “lobby the government to protect the unborn and elderly”, “other sorts of political activism that promote authentic Catholic teaching”, “help financially support some seminarians”, “perform fundraisers for the parish and other charities”, “give money to missionaries”, “support youth ministry”.

And incredible bake sales. Those women can bake!

 

[jbarbaretta]

1. There are 6 or 7 KoC councils around the country affiliated with traditional parishes. I don’t know if they are all FSSP parishes, so I just say “traditional.”

Nothing wrong with a KofC council at a Catholic parish, “traditional” or not. the distinction comes into play when dealing with groups that opted to bail out of the Church because they didn’t like the teaching or thought they knew better than the Magisterium as to what is a good Christian practice.

1. I can’t see what would stop a man who regularly attends an SSPX chapel from being a member of any nearby council. As long as the membership chairman/committee is willing to vouch for him being a “practical Catholic”, he’d be admitted.

If they attend a SSPX chapel, unless they catch a Catholic mass as well, they are not a “practical”, i.e. practicing, Catholic. Therefore, the act of applying to be a Knight is, in fact, a lie. If the council accepts this person into their ranks, knowing they are not a “practical” Catholic, they are conspiring in the same lie. They are also diluting what Fr McGivney was trying to do in forming the KofC.

 

[jbarbaretta]

Whew, that’s good to know! I guess the following “traddie” opinions don’t count, then:

• “A nice concept. Catholic businessmen getting together to network, without the occultism of Freemasonry. But in recent decades they’ve ‘embraced’ their Masonic enemies as brothers and hold ecumenical meetings with them. Not good.”
  .
• “I don’t think it’s too much to assume, guessing by the name, that they have a strongly pro-American-in-all-things streak. Like the John Birch society I’m getting the impression that America is placed over and above the Catholic Church there, and that probably accounts for the whiff of Masonry. Vatican II, after all, is nothing but the Americanized Masonic anti-church. America has always followed the Masonic program, more or less unwittingly.”
  .
• “Another big problem with the Knights is there ecumenical meetings with Masons and cooperative efforts for charities. Compromises like those make the whole endevour futile.”
  .
• “When the chips came down, the Knights went NO. And I think that they were in shape to take this wrong path because back when they had the chance to stand for the truth and fight the good fight, they turned their backs and left their comrades to be shredded by the enemy. Sin blinds, adding one layer on the other until one turns and repents and does whatever he can to set things right. In this blind state they were easy prey for the NO.”
  .
• “They have ties to freemasonry. I suggest not having anything to do with the Knights of Columbus.”
  .
• “I have always questioned The Knights of Columbus. Right now, they appear to be masons. I tried to research their origin and founder, but, I never saw any readings of any Pope blessing the group when founded. I would like to hear from other members here, if they have any knowledge or reading in this area. The Knights of Columbus has the logo or arms but if you give it a slight tilt, it is the same design of the Knights of Templar. I think I read some where that in the 13th century they found homosexuality at the top of that group and they were hung. I really wonder if Knights of Columbus were wrong from the start. They started in the late 1700’s (?) and that was when the secret societies of France were busy forming.”
  .
• “They’re a bit secretive about their ties to it, but I have heard of several people who left because they saw Freemasonic items in their buildings. Even if they didn’t have ties to it, I’d recommend leaving anyway because they are full of modernists.”

Huh? Wow. I take back my earlier statement about this thread not being full of gossip. There is so much misinformation here I don’t even know where to begin…Fr McGivney wasn’t even born until the late 1800’s so your whole premise of being part of some sort of secret society from the 1700s only makes sense if Fr McGivney founded the Knights about 100 years BEFORE he was born. I don’t get the whole 13th century thing, and they are not “secretive about their ties to it” they don’t have ties to it. You can’t talk about something that doesn’t exist. oh wait, this whole post is a discussion of something that doesn’t exist. Let me rephrase that. There is no connection to talk about.

What is wrong with a group of Catholic gentlemen getting together to help their parish and community? Isn’t that something like “Christianity 101”.

 

[TrueLight]

Huh? Wow. I take back my earlier statement about this thread not being full of gossip. There is so much misinformation here I don’t even know where to begin…Fr McGivney wasn’t even born until the late 1800’s so your whole premise of being part of some sort of secret society from the 1700s only makes sense if Fr McGivney founded the Knights about 100 years BEFORE he was born. I don’t get the whole 13th century thing, and they are not “secretive about their ties to it” they don’t have ties to it. You can’t talk about something that doesn’t exist. oh wait, this whole post is a discussion of something that doesn’t exist. Let me rephrase that. There is no connection to talk about.

What is wrong with a group of Catholic gentlemen getting together to help their parish and community? Isn’t that something like “Christianity 101”.

Mark, where are you getting all your quotes from? Is this stuff you have seen online or heard in conversation?

I personally have heard the masonic comments. But I’m not so sure how widespread that viewpoint is among trads.

 

[Melchior_1]

Huh? Wow. I take back my earlier statement about this thread not being full of gossip. There is so much misinformation here I don’t even know where to begin…Fr McGivney wasn’t even born until the late 1800’s** so your whole premise **of being part of some sort of secret society from the 1700s only makes sense if Fr McGivney founded the Knights about 100 years BEFORE he was born. I don’t get the whole 13th century thing, and they are not “secretive about their ties to it” they don’t have ties to it. You can’t talk about something that doesn’t exist. oh wait, this whole post is a discussion of something that doesn’t exist. Let me rephrase that. There is no connection to talk about.

What is wrong with a group of Catholic gentlemen getting together to help their parish and community? Isn’t that something like “Christianity 101”.

Again, Mark was quoting someone else.

 

[jbarbaretta]

Again, Mark was quoting someone else.

Sorry, I took it as a quotation to emphasize a point he was trying to make. There was nothing in his post that indicated to me that he disagreed with that viewpoint. Not being familiar with Mark’s standing on the topic, I assumed he was trying to make a point that apparently he may not have been.

Somehow I read right over the:

Whew, that’s good to know! I guess the following “traddie” opinions don’t count, then:

My apologies.

 

[Rich_C]

If they attend a SSPX chapel, unless they catch a Catholic mass as well, they are not a “practical”, i.e. practicing, Catholic.

You’re overstepping the Church’s position on Catholics who assist at SSPX chapels, at least according to all the Q&A’s I’ve been able to find online. The Chuch has always considered them to be valid Catholic Masses, though illicit. More recently, the Church has allowed that they fulfill the Sunday obligation, so long as assistance there is not done with a disobedient spirit toward the local ordinary. The failings of SSPX do not fall equally on the laity who assist at their chapels.

In other words, I’m just trying to say that in the eyes of the Church they are practicing, so in the eyes of KofC, they could certainly take a degree in good faith.

 

[Della]

Here I go wishing there were a female equivalent of the Knights again. Aside from doing work for the the Church and Catholicism, maybe these ladies would wear hats with a single giant feather on top, a black ruffled tops with long, red skirts. They would wear buckled Mary Janes, and you would hear the clickety-clack of their heels when they hosted functions.

They would have all sorts of cool secret rituals too.

:knight2:

In our state we have a Ladies Auxiliary that support many of the councils. The LA doesn’t have any secret meetings or ceremonies or special garb. But they do a lot of hard work supporting councils and in their parishes.

BTW, only the 4th Degree Sir Knights wear the regalia–the sword, cape and chapeau. A tux is their official garment. Only the Honor Guards wear the regalia for various functions, such as Masses, funerals, parades, processions, etc.

 

[TrueLight]

In our state we have a Ladies Auxiliary that support many of the councils. The LA doesn’t have any secret meetings or ceremonies or special garb. But they do a lot of hard work supporting councils and in their parishes.

BTW, only the 4th Degree Sir Knights wear the regalia–the sword, cape and chapeau. A tux is their official garment. Only the Honor Guards wear the regalia for various functions, such as Masses, funerals, parades, processions, etc.

Thanks. I think I have heard of such auxilliaries.

I’m not actually thinking of a ladies group that supports the Knights. I’m thinking of a women’s group that helps support the Church (capital c) in a similar way that the Knights do. In fundraising, evangelizing, helping to run events, run prayer groups (maybe the Rosary). Stuff like that. Maybe even supporting some of the traditional latin masses. Stuff like that…

The garb is fun stuff. What is most important is the mission.

 

[Della]

Thanks. I think I have heard of such auxilliaries.

I’m not actually thinking of a ladies group that supports the Knights. I’m thinking of a women’s group that helps support the Church (capital c) in a similar way that the Knights do. In fundraising, evangelizing, helping to run events, run prayer groups (maybe the Rosary). Stuff like that. Maybe even supporting some of the traditional latin masses. Stuff like that…

The garb is fun stuff. What is most important is the mission.

There are lay organizations that do all those things that have both men and women in them. Oftentimes the women of the parish do many of the things you cited. As for evangelization there’s the Legion of Mary and the Militia of the Immaculata. Not women’s groups, but a lot of gals are members.

 

[TrueLight]

There are lay organizations that do all those things that have both men and women in them. Oftentimes the women of the parish do many of the things you cited. As for evangelization there’s the Legion of Mary and the Militia of the Immaculata. Not women’s groups, but a lot of gals are members.

Okay. Thanks.

 

[JaMc]

Probably the easiest way to find out whether there could be a Knights of Columbus Council at an SSPX chapel would be to write someone at the Supreme Council, and ask if an SSPX parishoner would be considered a “practical Catholic in union with the Holy See” (the Supreme Advocate would be the logical choice).

 

[runningdude]

Here I go wishing there were a female equivalent of the Knights again. Aside from doing work for the the Church and Catholicism, maybe these ladies would wear hats with a single giant feather on top, a black ruffled tops with long, red skirts. They would wear buckled Mary Janes, and you would hear the clickety-clack of their heels when they hosted functions.

They would have all sorts of cool secret rituals too.

:knight2:

The thing about the Knights is that is an organization founded by a priest to promote male involvement in the faith, as many church societies, historically, have been dominated by women, alienating men. By its nature, the Knights could not authentically admit women or create a women’s version and stay true to its charism.

A woman’s “version” would have to be founded and led entirely by women. It needs that grassroots origin to be authentic witness to the faith. Talk about a group that could speak powerfully the truth (as revealed by the Church) regarding birth-control and abortion! !

I suspect though the reason that it hasn’t yet been done on the scale of the KofC is many women are already involved in many parish councils and committees. We can hope and pray that this situation evolves, that women step up to the challenge!

 

[freshwind]

The thing about the Knights is that is an organization founded by a priest to promote male involvement in the faith, as many church societies, historically, have been dominated by women, alienating men. By its nature, the Knights could not authentically admit women or create a women’s version and stay true to its charism.

A woman’s “version” would have to be founded and led entirely by women. It needs that grassroots origin to be authentic witness to the faith. Talk about a group that could speak powerfully the truth (as revealed by the Church) regarding birth-control and abortion! !

I suspect though the reason that it hasn’t yet been done on the scale of the KofC is many women are already involved in many parish councils and committees. We can hope and pray that this situation evolves, that women step up to the challenge!

A large part of the founding of the Knights was following the gospel…a fraternal organization to do good deeds and “take care of widows and orphans”…remember, at their forming there were no disability plans or insurance policies as today - in fact the Knights Insurance program is one of the top rated plans around.

 

[TrueLight]

A woman’s “version” would have to be founded and led entirely by women. It needs that grassroots origin to be authentic witness to the faith. Talk about a group that could speak powerfully the truth (as revealed by the Church) regarding birth-control and abortion! !

Oh I agree.

I suspect though the reason that it hasn’t yet been done on the scale of the KofC is many women are already involved in many parish councils and committees. We can hope and pray that this situation evolves, that women step up to the challenge!

Hmm.

 

[Stylites]

Probably the easiest way to find out whether there could be a Knights of Columbus Council at an SSPX chapel would be to write someone at the Supreme Council, and ask if an SSPX parishoner would be considered a “practical Catholic in union with the Holy See” (the Supreme Advocate would be the logical choice).

The problem is there is no such thing as an “SSPX parish”. An applicant would probably be referred to their local council, usually attached to a diocene parish, where all the sacraments are valid and licit. Someone who gets married or confesses at an SSPX chapel would not be a practical Catholic.