Knights Templar and the Vatican

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peary

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**I just read a headline that said Knights Templar heirs in legal battle with the Pope

The jist of the article is that so-called heirs of the Knights Templar have launched a legal battle in Spain to force the Pope to restore the reputation of the disgraced order which was accused of heresy and dissolved seven centuries ago. It is asking for what is equivilent to *$70 billion dollars *from the Church.

How insane is this??**
 
peary said:
**I just read a headline that said Knights Templar heirs in legal battle with the Pope **

The jist of the article is that so-called heirs of the Knights Templar have launched a legal battle in Spain to force the Pope to restore the reputation of the disgraced order which was accused of heresy and dissolved seven centuries ago. It is asking for what is equivilent to *$70 billion dollars *from the Church.

How insane is this??
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Can you post a link to this story, please?
 
They should be suing the authors of the “history” books which slandered them, not the Holy See.
 
the article:
Over the centuries, various groups have claimed to be descended from the Templars…
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I think I would be suspicious about the authenticity of this group which is suing for so much money.
 
If somebody says it’s not about the money, it’s about the money.
 
These people are simply after money; If I was part of an organization wanting to restore the Templar Knights dignity I’d simply request the pope to restore the order (though having them become a charitable catholic order, instead of a millitary order.)

I’d want this because it seems masons and protestants took up the form of the Templars after thier liquidation, which I believe had to do more with their power and the fact the French king wanted their land and money rather than that they may have been doing heretical things. But I don’t know perhaps they were doing heretical things under the Holy See’s radar.
 
According to the article,
The Chinon parchment revealed that, contrary to historic belief, Clement V had declared the Templars were not heretics but disbanded the order anyway to maintain peace with their accuser, King Philip IV of France.
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The key question would seem to be whether the pope had the authority to disband the group, and if so what would be the proper disposition of the property.

If the pope had the authority, and upon dissolution of the order property would legally flow to the Vatican, the case can be dismissed. If the pope didn’t have the authority, or the property should have been returned to members of the order, then the case may have some merit.
 
Digitonomy said:
According to the article,The key question would seem to be whether the pope had the authority to disband the group, and if so what would be the proper disposition of the property.

If the pope had the authority, and upon dissolution of the order property would legally flow to the Vatican, the case can be dismissed. If the pope didn’t have the authority, or the property should have been returned to members of the order, then the case may have some merit.
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It is my understanding that the Knights Templar was a pontifical order and, as such, was subject to the Pope, just are the Jesuits are. It stands to reason that he could dissolve the order and even restore it if he chose.
 
There are no "heirs"of the Knights Templar. The order was dissolved. Two orders from the Crusades remain: The Order of the Holy Sepulchre and the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.
 
sidonius said:
There are no "heirs"of the Knights Templar. The order was dissolved. Two orders from the Crusades remain: The Order of the Holy Sepulchre and the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.
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Thanks for the clarification. Once the historical lineage of the order is shown in court, I am sure the judge will dismiss it, if he doesn’t beforehand.
 
peary said:
It is my understanding that the Knights Templar was a pontifical order and, as such, was subject to the Pope, just are the Jesuits are. It stands to reason that he could dissolve the order and even restore it if he chose.
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If you are correct, that takes care of one issue, but there is still the matter of how property was disposed. There may have been property which should rightfully have reverted to private ownership, but was instead seized by the Church.
 
The order doesn’t exist anymore. There are no heirs, since these orders were under authority from the rome in the first place, they can be dissolved by rome.

$70 bn :rolleyes:
 
Surely as a religious order, the Templars were celebate anyway? If they were supposed to be but weren’t, and had illegitimate heirs, they would not have had the right to inherit under the laws of those times anyway.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
If I was part of an organization wanting to restore the Templar Knights dignity I’d simply request the pope to restore the order (though having them become a charitable catholic order, instead of a millitary order.)
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Oh, how very modern and LIMP! If I were part of an organzation that wanted the Knights Templar restored, I would respect the history of the group and in light of the fact that Christian pilgrims need more protection in the Holy Land today than ever before, I would insist that it be restored as a military unit that functioned in that capacity!
 
duskyjewel said:
Oh, how very modern and LIMP! If I were part of an organzation that wanted the Knights Templar restored, I would respect the history of the group and in light of the fact that Christian pilgrims need more protection in the Holy Land today than ever before, I would insist that it be restored as a military unit that functioned in that capacity!
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Would this new christian military unit in the holy land be armed? Keep in mind that it would have to go underground to be armed there. Would it wage an insurgency?
 
Sounds a lot like Dr. Evil.

“I want…” :eek: “100 billion dollars!” (euros :p)
 
Neil_Anthony said:
Would this new christian military unit in the holy land be armed? Keep in mind that it would have to go underground to be armed there. Would it wage an insurgency?
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I don’t know about insurgency, but armed and underground would be fine with me. Perhaps they could be insurgents. Supporting the Israeli state against the terrorists who keep blowing up their school buses and pizza parlors. Funny how I don’t think the Jews in Israel would shoot at Christian pilgrims or bar us from visiting our holy sites. Or use our most sacred places, such as the Church of the Nativity, as terrorist hidey-holes. Go for it… I bet you my husband would join in a nanosecond if this were its mission! And he’d get that Chi Rho tattoo he’s been wanting before he left! 😉
 
duskyjewel said:
Oh, how very modern and LIMP! If I were part of an organzation that wanted the Knights Templar restored, I would respect the history of the group and in light of the fact that Christian pilgrims need more protection in the Holy Land today than ever before, I would insist that it be restored as a military unit that functioned in that capacity!
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Dusky, I like your style:thumbsup:
 
Hi, duskyjewel,

I like that:
duskyjewel said:
Oh, how very modern and LIMP! If I were part of an organzation that wanted the Knights Templar restored, I would respect the history of the group and in light of the fact that Christian pilgrims need more protection in the Holy Land today than ever before…
Click to expand...
Down with LIMP! Yeah! Maybe we can find a way (as long as we are at it…) to polish the obviously tarnished image of shining Templar examples like Reynald de Chatillon and re-write the assorted butchery he and those who followed him are responsible for. Say what you want - no one called Reynald LIMP! That Knight spoke with his blade - and left a reputation that has withstood the test of time in the Holy Land and surrounding areas. We should all take note of Reynold’s many, many deeds.

While the Patriarch of Constantinople may have had other thoughts considering the image of Reynald :eek: - I am inclined to think that having the Templars come back as a modern-day charitable group focused on doing penance for the many atrocities that the Templars committed in the name of the Prince of Peace would be a good idea. Such a revision from their historical roots would cause all to notice and accomplish some ancient corrections to Templar intemperance. 😊

Being re-instated as charitable and penance producing would accomplish two goals: all of us are in need of charity, and atonement for all of that innocent blood spilled by the Templars in the countries where it took place may provide a sense of justice to the citizens of that troubled land. :rolleyes:

No, I do not this this was a LIMP idea at all … long ago, the Holy See had enough of the Templars and their excesses. Actually, the practice of ‘pilgrim protection’ (as opposed to the theory of ‘pilgrim protection’ is what should be looked at. If my understanding of history is correct, I would say that Saladin did more to protect pilgrims - Christian, Jew and Moslem - then Richard or the other Crusaders. 🙂

By the way, with regards to the orignial post - I was wondering who on earth could claim heirship with men who were to have taken a vow of chastity … and, I think Europe recognizes a statute of limitations - goodness, it has been over 600 years ago that the Templars were disbanded!

Best wishes, 👍
 
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