Koch brothers’ donation to Catholic University stirs protests

[stinkcat_14]

I have some familiarity with economics departments. Most don’t.

I also have quite a bit of familiarity with economics departments, and from my perspective most do have quite a bit of ideological diversity. The only group that seems to be consistently underrepresented is the marxists.

But my statement does not rest on knowing this of the university in question, I was challenging the frobert simply on the idea that there is something wrong with funding professors who might disagree with the existing faculty. If they don’t, then what’s the problem? If they do then they are needed.

I think there is a problem with requiring professors to be of any particular ideology. I would hate to have a marxist funder tell us that we have to hire a marxist in pursuit of ideological diversity.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Please READ what I wrote and tell me what it how it is against diversity. Let me repeat: “I would be interested in hearing what the present professors in their (the college’s) economics’s department think.” I am not in a position to judge one way or another and if I did judge who would really care. I take that back you seem to care. Both opinions come from self interested parties and both are likely to be prejudiced.

Here is how: if the acceptance of the new professors (presumably of a more free market orientation) depends on their acceptance by the existing professors (quite likely Keyensian) then there is the very real possibility of blackballing which occurs regularly in universities. One reason that outsiders like the Koch brothers fund professors is precisely to inject diversity where it has been suppressed by internal university politics.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I also have quite a bit of familiarity with economics departments, and from my perspective most do have quite a bit of ideological diversity. The only group that seems to be consistently underrepresented is the marxists. I think there is a problem with requiring professors to be of any particular ideology. I would hate to have a marxist funder tell us that we have to hire a marxist in pursuit of ideological diversity.

I would have no problem with, say, Ted Turner funding a Marxist economics professor chair.

 

[phil19034]

donations should only be refused if they come from questionable sources (i.e. criminals, money illegally gained, etc) or if they are earmarked for things outside the teachings of The Chuch or outside the mission of the University.

God Bless

 

[stinkcat_14]

Here is how: if the acceptance of the new professors (presumably of a more free market orientation) depends on their acceptance by the existing professors (quite likely Keyensian) then there is the very real possibility of blackballing which occurs regularly in universities.

Can you give me an example of a conservative economics professor being blackballed since Milton Friedman was in the 1940s at the University of Wisconsin?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Can you give me an example of a conservative economics professor being blackballed since Milton Friedman was in the 1940s at the University of Wisconsin?

Google “university blackballing conservatives” and you’ll find plenty of reading material.

 

[MJE]

Other then being very wealthy & for smaller less centralized gov’t just what evil do the Koch brothers promote?

 

[stinkcat_14]

Google “university blackballing conservatives” and you’ll find plenty of reading material.

In other words, your answer is no.

 

[frobert]

Here is how: if the acceptance of the new professors (presumably of a more free market orientation) depends on their acceptance by the existing professors (quite likely Keyensian) then there is the very real possibility of blackballing which occurs regularly in universities. One reason that outsiders like the Koch brothers fund professors is precisely to inject diversity where it has been suppressed by internal university politics.

I said I would be interested in hearing what the professors think. You appeared to accuse me of being against diversity in a previous post. Are you now accusing me of being for another diverse opinion.

If you read what I write you might realize I have no dog in this fight.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I said I would be interested in hearing what the professors think. You appeared to accuse me of being against diversity in a previous post. Are you now accusing me of being for another diverse opinion.

If you read what I write you might realize I have no dog in this fight.

I “accused” you with a question and then “accused” you further wth an explanation of how faculty restrict diversity. If you have no dog in the fight then you should not find my points so offensive.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I “accused” you with a question and then “accused” you further wth an explanation of how faculty restrict diversity.

Actually, your explanation was just an opinion made up in your own mind, you actually presented no data on how economics departments restrict diversity. And anyone who knows anything about economics departments would know that you cannot make a claim in economics without backing it up with data.

 

[frobert]

I “accused” you with a question and then “accused” you further wth an explanation of how faculty restrict diversity. If you have no dog in the fight then you should not find my points so offensive.

There you go again. I do not find your posts offensive nor did I say they are offensive. If you really really want to know what I think about them, I think they are off their mark. So let’s agree to disregard each other’s posts.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Actually, your explanation was just an opinion made up in your own mind, you actually presented no data on how economics departments restrict diversity. And anyone who knows anything about economics departments would know that you cannot make a claim in economics without backing it up with data.

Anyone who knows how to use google can find more then they have time to read.

The reason that people like the Koch brothers are funding professor chairs is precisely the problem of departmental selection bias. If you believe that the Koch brothers are wasting their money on an imaginary problem, that they are paying for redundant perspectives, then what’s your beef?

 

[BlessedLDS]

It’s interesting that they did not cite the Koch brothers’ views on social issue which tend to be pretty liberal and contrary to church teaching. I guess it doesn’t suit their needs to say “they support gay marriage which is against church teaching.”

Curious when you think about it.

The Charles Koch Foundation has been kind to my liberty minded student group by providing us books to do a reading group for college students who don’t hear about free market ideas in the classroom. And I go to a Catholic university.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Anyone who knows how to use google can find more then they have time to read.

I am not the one claiming that conservative economists are being blackballed. You made the claim, you are the one who is to back up the claim. If I gave a seminar at the economics department of the University of Chicago, do you think they would let such a claim be made without asking for proof? Of course not.

The reason that people like the Koch brothers are funding professor chairs is precisely the problem of departmental selection bias.

Their perception that there is a problem. One can question whether the data squares with that perception.

If you believe that the Koch brothers are wasting their money on an imaginary problem, that they are paying for redundant perspectives, then what’s your beef?

If there is ideological diversity already, then the best person should be hired. If that person is liberal, so be it. If that person is conservative, so be it as well. We actually never ask whether they are liberal or conservative when we hire them. Why is that an important and relevant question to ask?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

If there is ideological diversity already, then the best person should be hired. If that person is liberal, so be it. If that person is conservative, so be it as well. We actually never ask whether they are liberal or conservative when we hire them. Why is that an important and relevant question to ask?

The best person should always be hired. The quesiton is, who decides who is the best person and according to what criteria. Typically that is a factuly decision. But when professorships are donated it is the doner who decides as a condition of the donation.

And that is probably a big part of why the donation is being protested. (Though the “Koch” name alone is often sufficient.)

If you are too lazy to read the many articles that Google can find for you then you can simply look at what is being offered and who is defending the status quo against it.

(And, please, let’s not pretend that one must ask a candidate “whether they are liberal or conservative”. All that is necessary is to examine the candidate’s publications.)

 

[stinkcat_14]

The best person should always be hired. The quesiton is, who decides who is the best person and according to what criteria. Typically that is a factuly decision. But when professorships are donated it is the doner who decides as a condition of the donation.

I have only heard of one case where a donor wanted to make hiring decisions and that was another university that wanted to accept a Koch donation.

And that is probably a big part of why the donation is being protested. (Though the “Koch” name alone is often sufficient.)

I am sure there are many in the academy who don’t like the Koch brothers and that is sufficient for them to protest. But your claim was very specific, that economics departments are not ideologically diverse and that they blackball conservatives. Yet you provide no proof.

If you are too lazy to read the many articles that Google can find for you then you can simply look at what is being offered and who is defending the status quo against it.

I am not the one who made the claim. If it is as easy as you say to find dozens of examples of conservative economists who have been run out of economics departments, then you should have no problem linking to them. I say this as a libertarian economist who has been in academia for a long time. I have even taught at schools with very liberal reputations and their economics departments have the whole range of viewpoints.

(And, please, let’s not pretend that one must ask a candidate “whether they are liberal or conservative”. All that is necessary is to examine the candidate’s publications.)

You can read my doctoral dissertation and my articles and you will be hard pressed to determine whether I am liberal or conservative based on those publications. It is the same for my colleagues as well. If I write something for the National Review, then yes you can tell that I am conservative, but editors of economics journals won’t stand for overt political slants in the articles they publish.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

You can read my doctoral dissertation and my articles and you will be hard pressed to determine whether I am liberal or conservative based on those publications. It is the same for my colleagues as well. If I write something for the National Review, then yes you can tell that I am conservative, but editors of economics journals won’t stand for overt political slants in the articles they publish.

Are you claiming that I could not read your dissertation and publications and determine whether you are Keynesian, Chicogan, or Austrian? And, yes, I am referring both to content and where the item is published. What sort of article would you expect to get published in the Cato Journal? How about The Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics?

We’re not discussing “overt political slants”, we’re discussing competing schools of economics.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Are you claiming that I could not read your dissertation and publications and determine whether you are Keynesian, Chicogan, or Austrian?

Yes.

And, yes, I am referring both to content and where the item is published. What sort of article would you expect to get published in the Cato Journal? How about The Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics?

No economist starting out aspires to publish in those journals. Not even economists at the University of Chicago. Most journals allow a variety of viewpoints. For example, if I tell you that I published in Land Economics, you would be hard pressed to discern a political bias.

 

[SMGS127]

Oh no, CUA took this? How could they compromise their integrity like that? -_-.

And for those of you who think they aren’t, my father is a professor at a huge university. The dean of their Economics school was told point blank after he accepted a donation from the Koch Brothers that they would get him fired (or at the very least, make huge trouble for him) if he pursued his plan to fire an incompetent economics professor who happened to have right-wing leanings. As a result, the dean declined to fire him.

When you accept money from these kinds of organizations, they own you. It’s sad to see CUA didn’t choose to decline such politically-motivated money.