KofC -- Is it worth joining?

[nobeerinheaven]

On the KofC website, I noticed this:

There are four degrees within the Knights of Columbus. Each degree ceremony imparts a lesson on the Order’s core virtues of Charity, Unity, Fraternity and Patriotism.

If one dislikes his country, is that an impediment to being a good Knight of Columbus?

 

[Ridgerunner]

If one dislikes his country, is that an impediment to being a good Knight of Columbus?

Well, he wouldn’t appreciate Fourth Degree, that’s for sure.

K of C isn’t a politically-oriented organization, but a lot of the members I know are veterans. I don’t know what country you live in, or what K of C is like in other countries, but there’s a pretty solid old school “American Way” overlay to the membership in the chapters I am familiar with. That doesn’t mean I haven’t heard plenty of criticism of the U.S. government at social times, but it’s not true “Anti-Americanism”, just the kind of carping everybody does.

I don’t know if that answers your question or not.

 

[Greg72]

On the KofC website, I noticed this:

There are four degrees within the Knights of Columbus. Each degree ceremony imparts a lesson on the Order’s core virtues of Charity, Unity, Fraternity and Patriotism.

I’m only a third degree Knight, but I think I can offer some insight -

It depends what sort of dislike you have.

If you don’t always agree with your country’s foreign policy or leadership, then that shouldn’t be a problem.

If you actually hate your country and all that it stands for then that will likely be a problem.

If you disagree with your country’s laws and refuse to obey them then that will certainly be a problem.

When the KofC was founded in the US, there was a lot of anti-Catholicism. A lot of people thought that Catholics couldn’t possibly be proper citizens since our allegiance was with the Pope.

Without that knowledge, a degree named “Patriotism” might give a different impression. Think of “Patriotism” more as being a good citizen than necessarily a flag-waver.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

I don’t know what country you live in, or what K of C is like in other countries, but there’s a pretty solid old school “American Way” overlay to the membership in the chapters I am familiar with. That doesn’t mean I haven’t heard plenty of criticism of the U.S. government at social times, but it’s not true “Anti-Americanism”, just the kind of carping everybody does.

What if the dislike extends beyond governmental policy, toward things like culture and those other accoutrements unique to the country of origin (as well)? What are the minimal standards for being patriotic? If one is not patriotic at all, does that mean one cannot achieve the fourth degree, or that one will merely not recognize the significance of that degree?

Notice I speak in the third person, this does not necessarily apply to me - but I am curious.

It depends what sort of dislike you have. If you don’t always agree with your country’s foreign policy or leadership, then that shouldn’t be a problem. If you actually hate your country and all that it stands for then that will likely be a problem. If you disagree with your country’s laws and refuse to obey them then that will certainly be a problem.

What if the attitude is not so strong as hate - more like fundamental distrust, or malcontent. Would having that attitude toward the country of origin pose a problem in achieving the fourth degree?

Greg72:

Think of “Patriotism” more as being a good citizen than necessarily a flag-waver.

The phrase “good citizen” explains more about what attitude one should have, but it’s not exactly clear if that entails certain beliefs or actions along with it. Does one need to like one’s country of origin? Believe good things about it? Does one need to support it - in word or deed - in any way? Does simply paying taxes and not flagrantly disrespecting the law count as sufficient patriotism?

 

[Greg72]

What if the dislike extends beyond governmental policy, toward things like culture and those other accoutrements unique to the country of origin (as well)?

If you don’t like the local dress or architecture, that’s obviously not a problem. If you don’t like being in the middle of the culture of death and seeing our Judeo-Christian roots ignored and suppressed, then that’s a bonus. Otherwise, I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

What are the minimal standards for being patriotic? If one is not patriotic at all, does that mean one cannot achieve the fourth degree, or that one will merely not recognize the significance of that degree?

Notice I speak in the third person, this does not necessarily apply to me - but I am curious.

I’m not a fourth degree Knight, so I can’t say for sure.

I agree with Ridgerunner, though, that if you dislike your country, then you probably wouldn’t appreciate the fourth degree.

What if the attitude is not so strong as hate - more like fundamental distrust, or malcontent. Would having that attitude toward the country of origin pose a problem in achieving the fourth degree?

That would depend, I suppose, on what you are defining as “country”.

I watched Bishop Sheen last night explain the difference between Russia and Communism. Sometimes what seems to define a country has little to do with it in the big picture - certainly not enough to actually define it.

The phrase “good citizen” explains more about what attitude one should have, but it’s not exactly clear if that entails certain beliefs or actions along with it. Does one need to like one’s country of origin? Believe good things about it? Does one need to support it - in word or deed - in any way? Does simply paying taxes and not flagrantly disrespecting the law count as sufficient patriotism?

Again, it is probably good enough, though if you feel like vomitting when you hear the national anthem sung then that could be a problem at any degree

Not being a fourth degree Knight, I cannot be certain.

I do know, however, that the fourth degree is entirely optional so it needn’t be a concern.

 

[Paganus]

**1. How faithful is it to the Faith? **
Completely faithful. Promotes the faith at every level and encourages prayer, especially the Rosary.

2. What are the benefits of being K of C?
It provides fun activities for our family where I do not have to be concerned about the behavior of other families present. It encourages prayer and fraternity among Catholic men of various socio-economic and ethnic backgrounds. It promotes charitable activities and volunteerism. It provides a means of expressing my Catholic identity publicly without risking my job.

**3. What good does K of C do? **
As much good as you want it to do. If there’s something your parish needs, the K of C is an excellent vehicle for getting the job done. Instead of being a Sunday Catholic, the K of C can help you extend that faith all through the week, as it should be.

4. How seriously do they take their duty as the official guard of the Priesthood in the US? How do they perform this function?
Mostly we do not sit quietly and listen to our priests getting attacked in conversation or in the media and we do not support those who continue to belittle our priesthood.
**
5. What are the drawbacks or potential drawbacks?**
The biggest drawback is that you will be asked to volunteer for things that you know you should do, that nobody else can do, but that you would rather not do because of sheer selfishness. You’ll regret being cajoled into the doing them right up until the moment it’s all over and you find yourself thanking the organizer for allowing you to be a part of something worthwhile. Growing in charity is something we need to be pressured into doing sometimes - it’s like spiritual sit-ups. Don’t wanna do 'em, but you feel so much better when you do.

**Another good friend of mine described K of C as a group of guys who don’t do anything but get together and drink beer, but pray beforehand. **
I was really hoping for this, actually, because I was fresh out of “beer buddies.” However, although we have a decent bar, we allow no alcohol at our meetings. I have averaged one alcoholic beverage per year at my council clubhouse until recently when I just decided to quit pretending and now I’m a teetotaler.

 

[mschrank]

Another question: What are the ages one might find? Would I be the only 20-something surrounded by guys who are old enough to be my dad and probably interested in different subjects?

 

[Leopard]

Another question: What are the ages one might find? Would I be the only 20-something surrounded by guys who are old enough to be my dad and probably interested in different subjects?

Probably not, but it is possible. In which case all you have to do is recruit some of your twenty-something catholic buddies as Knights. And you’d be suprised at how many common interests we old geezers have with you youngsters.

I’ve known brother Knights of all ages from 18 to 90 plus, just in my Council.

 

[Leopard]

What if the dislike extends beyond governmental policy, toward things like culture and those other accoutrements unique to the country of origin (as well)? What are the minimal standards for being patriotic? If one is not patriotic at all, does that mean one cannot achieve the fourth degree, or that one will merely not recognize the significance of that degree?..

…What if the attitude is not so strong as hate - more like fundamental distrust, or malcontent. Would having that attitude toward the country of origin pose a problem in achieving the fourth degree?..

I don’t understand where you’re coming from either. If you’re comfortable doing so, could you give some specific examples? You may PM me if you don’t want to post publicly.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

If you don’t like the local dress or architecture, that’s obviously not a problem. If you don’t like being in the middle of the culture of death and seeing our Judeo-Christian roots ignored and suppressed, then that’s a bonus. Otherwise, I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

I typically think that patriotism implies you believe at least one thing is uniquely good about the country you are patriotic toward; e.g. Country X has the best pizza ever. Or, Country Y has the most reliably good political processes.

I can’t say I believe anything like that, since many (if not all) the unique things about my country, I think of as negative, bad, or sinful. I’m not trying to be a scrooge, I just can’t think of anything peculiar to where I’m from that I like, and can think of lots of things I don’t. I would think that as the opposite of Patriotism.
"Greg72:

Again, it is probably good enough, though if you feel like vomitting when you hear the national anthem sung then that could be a problem at any degree

Almost at that point, not quite. Give it ten years or so, maybe.

I don’t understand where you’re coming from either. If you’re comfortable doing so, could you give some specific examples? You may PM me if you don’t want to post publicly.

Like I said before, I just can’t think of anything unique to my country of origin that is good (government, culture, anything). I can think of unique things that are bad, but I can’t think of anything peculiar to this country which is positive. I can only think of unique negatives. It makes me wonder whether Lot would have been a good K of C, though I don’t mean to imply the country I am referring to is as bad as Sodom or Gomorrah. It is (I believe), at best, average; at worst, below average.

Sorry too if this seems like an unpatriotic rant, I really am curious since I’ve heard good things about KofC and wondered whether I might join. It sounds like being unpatriotic is not a problem for membership, though, just somewhat of an impediment to achieving (or appreciating) the fourth degree.

 

[consumedconvert]

I typically think that patriotism implies you believe at least one thing is uniquely good about the country you are patriotic toward; e.g. Country X has the best pizza ever. Or, Country Y has the most reliably good political processes.

I can’t say I believe anything like that, since many (if not all) the unique things about my country, I think of as negative, bad, or sinful. I’m not trying to be a scrooge, I just can’t think of anything peculiar to where I’m from that I like, and can think of lots of things I don’t. I would think that as the opposite of Patriotism.

Almost at that point, not quite. Give it ten years or so, maybe.

Like I said before, I just can’t think of anything unique to my country of origin that is good (government, culture, anything). I can think of unique things that are bad, but I can’t think of anything peculiar to this country which is positive. I can only think of unique negatives. It makes me wonder whether Lot would have been a good K of C, though I don’t mean to imply the country I am referring to is as bad as Sodom or Gomorrah. It is (I believe), at best, average; at worst, below average.

Sorry too if this seems like an unpatriotic rant, I really am curious since I’ve heard good things about KofC and wondered whether I might join. It sounds like being unpatriotic is not a problem for membership, though, just somewhat of an impediment to achieving (or appreciating) the fourth degree.

Sir, you have a horrible nametag. I can only pray it is not correct!

I would argue that one ought not love his home because it is good, but rather because it is home.

Sincerely,

CC

 

[nobeerinheaven]

Sir, you have a horrible nametag. I can only pray it is not correct!

I would argue that one ought not love his home because it is good, but rather because it is home.

It’s from the Polka: “In Heaven there is no beer, that’s why we drink it here. And when we’re all gone from here, our friends will be drinking all the beer…”

Good point, though. The trick is finding something to love.

 

[YADA]

My husband has been a KOC for about 35 years… during that time he has been a member of various councils and participated at various levels [very active to inactive]… at one point he moved with a job transfer [did not transfer his membership] and had next to no involvement or several years other than reading the magazine and paying his dues …

Currently he is very active in his council and they are very active ina variety of ways …

I know that the KOC help strenghten his faith and even helped keep him from totally leaving the catholic faith community at a very low point in his life [marriage troubles, seperation, divorce, lack of church attendance] … the connection to fellow knights, the magazine, etc kept him form totally seperating himself from the life Jesus planned for him …

As for the typical council … I think they are all the same and yet different … each will have its own focus and feel … even the change of leadership within a council can give the council a different feel …

My husband’s council provides vital services … they host a breakfast once a month and a spaghetti feed once a year; They sponsor a golf tournament and the parish/school picnic. These are fund raisers: Where does this money go? They provide scholarships for at least two seminarians each year. The spaghetti dinner proceeds go to the St. Vincent de Paul Christmas Food Boxes [250 families recieve Christmas Food Boxes from our parish each December], and Father Taaffe’s Homes for Unwed Mothers [and their Chidlren]. They also provide scholarships for parish studets who attend local Catholic High Schools.

They sponsor the Boy Scouts Council, they support St. MAry’s Home for Boys [troubled kids] working at their annual fund raiser, taking the boys out for hockey or basket bll games, pizza etc They provide a Men’s Retreat experience each year at a local seminary [open to all of the men of the parish]. They sponsor youth activities and events …

They also help the parish with funds for needed repairs actually perform some repairs and maintenance … Provide security on Halloween to protect te church and grounds from vandalism and countless other areas I can’t remember …

They support the families of fellow knights during times of great need [illness, death, etc]…

The KOC is a great gift to catholic men … and to their families … my husband is supported in his christian life through the KOC …

 

[MHalsey]

Like I said before, I just can’t think of anything unique to my country of origin that is good (government, culture, anything). I can think of unique things that are bad, but I can’t think of anything peculiar to this country which is positive. I can only think of unique negatives. It makes me wonder whether Lot would have been a good K of C, though I don’t mean to imply the country I am referring to is as bad as Sodom or Gomorrah. It is (I believe), at best, average; at worst, below average.

Sorry too if this seems like an unpatriotic rant, I really am curious since I’ve heard good things about KofC and wondered whether I might join. It sounds like being unpatriotic is not a problem for membership, though, just somewhat of an impediment to achieving (or appreciating) the fourth degree.

Perhaps by joining the Knight of Columbus you might find there is more to love about your country than you think.

The 4th degree, or Patriotic degree, is the visible arm of the Knights of Columbus. The 4th degree assembly is typically made up of knights from various councils in a particular area. The knights you see in the capes and chapots with the swords are all 4th degree knights. The assembly also does a lot of recognition work for our local firefighters, police and paramedics. They also, at least in the US, typically march the local 4th of July parade.

The degrees of the Knights of Columbus are not a requirement for you before you join or advance. They are lessons which are taught and, the principles of Charity, Unity, Fraternity, and Patriotism can be strengthened by their practice in the Knights of Columbus.

 

[MHalsey]

Probably not, but it is possible. In which case all you have to do is recruit some of your twenty-something catholic buddies as Knights. And you’d be suprised at how many common interests we old geezers have with you youngsters.

I’ve known brother Knights of all ages from 18 to 90 plus, just in my Council.

That’s kind of what I did. At 36 when I joined, I was one of the youngest in our council. What I did was recruit the fathers I knew through the school. 4 years later, there a quite a number of knights in our council under 40, and we have several knights in there 20’s.

However, one of the reasons the Knights of Columbus seems to be filled with so many older gents is that these men generally have more time on their hands. The younger knights such as myself have young families. And as anyone with kids can attest, families can keep you quite busy. But this shouldn’t be a deterrent to joining. Help out when you can. No one is going give you a hard time if you don’t get involved in every activity.

 

[Leopard]

…The younger knights such as myself have young families. And as anyone with kids can attest, families can keep you quite busy. But this shouldn’t be a deterrent to joining. Help out when you can. No one is going give you a hard time if you don’t get involved in every activity.

This is true. We have a number of brothers whose only active participation in our Council is helping with the MH Tootsie Roll drive once a year, writing checks when we make an appeal for disaster relief and other charitible efforts, and/or seeing to their families’ future security through the Order’s insurance programs.

But they are also involved in other parish or school ministries as their time allows, and they are good men, husbands, and fathers. As such are a credit to our Order. I kind of think that being Knights, getting and reading Columbia, and being encouraged to pray their rosaries often helps them to be better men in all these other aspects of their lives.

 

[randomguy0187]

I realize this thread is slightly older, but I just had to post because I just received my 1st degree on Tuesday and my 2nd degree on Wednesday (yesterday) and I am really excited. It’s quite interesting too, because I’m in the Los Crusados council (#1990), and the mascot of my elementary school was the St. James Crusaders, and the mascot of my high school was the Bishop Montgomery Knights. Go figure

Anyways, I had some concerns before because I’m 23, I’m single, and just finished college (I think I’m the youngest Knight in my council). It was kind of intimidating at first, because pretty much most of the active members I’ve met are married with young kids, and from what I’ve heard most of the membership as a whole are in their 70’s and 80’s. But it’s been a good experience thus far: I realized there was so much I could learn from being around older men, learning from their stories, getting career advice, getting marriage/parenting advice advice (I don’t even know if marriage is my vocation yet, but I suppose it’s good knowledge anyways) , and just learning about what it means to be a good (Catholic) man. I have been reading a lot of different books on masculinity and manhood over the past couple years (John Eldredge is a good author), which basically say that our mainstream society right now isn’t conducive to and doesn’t respect or understand the “masculine journey.” And my recent personal observations and experiences at college definitely reflect that: a lot of the guys I met and knew have not “grown up” as men cough see dating norms now cough . Long story short, I think it’s definitely worth joining at any (eligible) age, because all men are somewhere on the path, and having the support of brother Knights can only help all of us become better men and better servants of God and our neighbors.

I’m really excited to begin working on some of the service programs my council does. I’ve also talked with some of the guys about sponsoring a Columbian Squires Circle, because I really do feel that younger men do need that experience of being with older men.

 

[Cactus]

Welcome to the Knights, Randomguy! You will find some wonderful fraternal encouragement here and an outstanding opportunity to serve the Church! Your interest in reaching out to youth strikes me as very timely on the Feast Day of St. John Bosco.

 

[KCtheMommy]

I think it’s a wonderful group, and the charity work you will be part of is satisfying and so very much needed. They have been so very good to our family all around, including helping us with tuition. My DH loves the work he does with them. I should get a bug in his ear to go to more meetings, or help him to call the Grand Knight to get him more involved, DH is SO VERY SHY.

Just be prepared to buy insurance…

Kidding, kinda, it’s a good policy and yes we have the insurance…

 

[vocatio]

I realize this is a bit old thread, but I’m compelled to answer. I wished I would have joined when I was in my early years. I waited until last year, but there was a man in his 70’s that joined. He said the same thing. The first degree is just the beginning. I’m a 3rd degree Knight waiting for the 4th degree ceremony. If the 4th degree is anything like the 2nd/3rd I am very stoked. This will inspire you…You really should just join. You WILL understand why after you join.

1. How faithful is it to the Faith?
   100% Founded by a priest.
2. What are the benefits of being K of C?
   Commradery with like minded men who are pragmatic, not touchy feely all the time. They know how to have a good time. Many learn to defend the faith…and you get to wear a funny feather hat and carry a sword too. Wow!! That shoud have doen it for you there. Many of us are prior service and very patriotic. We would mostly defend the priests in spite of whether we liked him or not.
3. What good does K of C do?
   Lots of charity events. Mainly I’m involved in defending life at the abortion clinics. Pray the rosary there and in private. Attend family functions and meetings as time allows. Then the insurance is one of the best available. I remember wishing I were Catholic after hearing about the benefits. I bought policies for my children. Dear wife and I can’t afford at our age and income, but there are policies other than life that we’re interested in after we stablize.
4. How seriously do they take their duty as the official guard of the Priesthood in the US? How do they perform this function?
   I’d give my life in a heartbeat even for an illicit priest. I’m a soldier and now a Knight. It’s my personal oath if not Knight. I’ve already put my neck on the line for some. I know that my prior service friends would do the same.
5. What are the drawbacks or potential drawbacks?
   Not everyone in the Church is perfect. You need to get past that part. Many people will disappoint you. So don’t let the one’s who care only for the beer and sports parties take you down. Get involved and hold the front line.

You really should do it for your own good. One last thing, last year we gave over 120K for vocations to the priesthood. That’s my biggest reason for joining, to support and foster vocations to the priesthood and religious life.