Koine Greek Expert Regarding Matthew's Exception Clauses

[EndTimes]

Tradition and Scripture are part of the Ordinary Magisterium.

Not So. The Magisterium is “servant to” Scriptures.

Scriptures are the actual WORD of God…

Magisterium … via God’s Holy Spirit - gives interpretation TO the Word.

Scriptures Stand Authoritative all by Itself -

This is evidenced throughout the 1st Century AD as per Scriptures themselves.

From the Magisterium

REF: CCC - from Article 1 to 141

In Brief:

II. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE

**[80]( "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own “always, to the close of the age”.41

. . . two distinct modes of transmission

**[81](j " Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

**[83] The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church’s Magisterium.

III. THE INTERPRETATION OF THE HERITAGE OF FAITH

**[84]( The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith (the depositum fidei ),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church.

The Magisterium of the Church

**[86] "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

 

[po18guy]

It is/was held that Matthew was a Jew writing for Jews. If so, is it any wonder that those under the Mosaic law who used the Mosaic exception to divorce, would be addressed by our Jewish Lord - and so noted by Jewish Matthew?

Just my 2¢

 

[Gorgias]

The Magisterium is “servant to” Scriptures.

Scriptures are the actual WORD of God…

Magisterium … via God’s Holy Spirit - gives interpretation TO the Word.

Scriptures Stand Authoritative all by Itself

The quotes that you provide from the Catechism say something different than what you assert. You might want to re-read them.

the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

See?

 

[Ammi]

See?

I’ll share what I see…

@EndTimes related that the Teaching authority is subservient to Scripture. That is true and affirmed in the Bolded section in his post.

You quoted a paragraph relating to Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Then you asked him to re-read.

 

[Gorgias]

@EndTimes related that the Teaching authority is subservient to Scripture. That is true and affirmed in the Bolded section in his post.

You quoted a paragraph relating to Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Then you asked him to re-read.

The question wasn’t “are people subservient to Scripture?”, but rather “does Scripture stand authoritative all by itself?”

The quote from the CCC demonstrates that Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition “must be accepted and honored” equally. Adding the question of whether a person is superior to Scripture is a red herring.

To tell the truth, having gone back now to respond to your post, I’m just picking up the (unintentional?) misdirection and sleight-of-hand in the segue from “Sacred Tradition” to “the people who teach Sacred Tradition.”

 

[Ammi]

This is a different translation of Clement of Alexandria. So did Clement use different words for the bolded? Your translation has Fornication in both places.

“That Scripture counsels marriage, however, and never allows any release from the union, is expressly contained in the law: ‘You shall not divorce a wife, except for reason of immorality.’ And it regards as adultery the marriage of a spouse, while the one from whom a separation was made is still alive. ‘Whoever takes a divorced woman as wife commits adultery,’ it says; for ‘if anyone divorce his wife, he debauches her’; that is, he compels her to commit adultery. And not only does he that divorces her become the cause of this, but also he that takes the woman and gives her the opportunity of sinning; for if he did not take her, she would return to her husband”

 

[Ammi]

St Augustine:

“Neither can it rightly be held that a husband who dismisses his wife because of fornication and marries another does not commit adultery. For there is also adultery on the part of those who, after the repudiation of their former wives because of fornication, marry others. This adultery, nevertheless, is certainly less serious than that of men who dismiss their wives for reasons other than fornication and take other wives. Therefore, when we say: ‘Whoever marries a woman dismissed by her husband for reason other than fornication commits adultery,’ undoubtedly we speak the truth. But we do not thereby acquit of this crime the man who marries a woman who was dismissed because of fornication. We do not doubt in the least that both are adulterers. We do indeed pronounce him an adulterer who dismissed his wife for cause other than fornication and marries another, nor do we thereby defend from the taint of this sin the man who dismissed his wife because of fornication and marries another. We recognize that both are adulterers, though the sin of one is more grave than that of the other. No one is so unreasonable to say that a man who marries a woman whose husband has dismissed her because of fornication is not an adulterer, while maintaining that a man who marries a woman dismissed without the ground of fornication is an adulterer. Both of these men are guilty of adultery” ( Adulterous Marriages 1:9:9 [A.D. 419]).

“A woman begins to be the wife of no later husband unless she has ceased to be the wife of a former one. She will cease to be the wife of a former one, however, if that husband should die, not if he commit fornication. A spouse, therefore, is lawfully dismissed for cause of fornication; but the bond of chastity remains. That is why a man is guilty of adultery if he marries a woman who has been dismissed even for this very reason of fornication” (ibid., 2:4:4).

These clearly show that St Augustine regarded the exception clause to mean a just separation from a valid marriage because of unfaithfulness.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

This is a different translation of Clement of Alexandria. So did Clement use different words for the bolded? Your translation has Fornication in both places.

“That Scripture counsels marriage, however, and never allows any release from the union, is expressly contained in the law: ‘You shall not divorce a wife, except for reason of immorality.’ And it regards as adultery the marriage of a spouse, while the one from whom a separation was made is still alive. ‘Whoever takes a divorced woman as wife commits adultery,’ it says; for ‘if anyone divorce his wife, he debauches her’; that is, he compels her to commit adultery. And not only does he that divorces her become the cause of this, but also he that takes the woman and gives her the opportunity of sinning; for if he did not take her, she would return to her husband”

What I posted was not my translation. It was by William Wilson. from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 2. Edited by Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe.
You can find it on NewAdvent.org

edit to add link:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02102.htm

 

[Ammi]

Ok. I found one from https://www.churchfathers.org

It says:

The quotes on this site were adopted from “The Fathers Know Best.” by Jimmy Akin

 

[EndTimes]

The Magisterium is “servant to” Scriptures.
Scriptures are the actual WORD of God… Magisterium …
via God’s Holy Spirit - gives interpretation TO the Word.

The quotes that you provide from the Catechism say something different than what you assert. You =might want to re-read them.

Are we arguing over the sense of “quote”?
My paraphrased statements remain standing strong…

Let’s begin with… Magisterial Teachings re: The Magisterium from The Catholic Church

The Magisterium of the Church

[86] "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."

 

[EndTimes]

The question wasn’t “are people subservient to Scripture?”, but rather “does Scripture stand authoritative all by itself?”

Yes… God’s Revelation to Man -
Sacred Scriptures such as the OT aka Jesus’ reference to Scriptures)
And Apostolic Oral accounts of Jesus Gospel preceding the Written Accounts (NT)
all of which these Written Accounts form “the Bible”
preceded the formation of the Magisterium…

That said, yes, some individuals achieved Salvation b/c of FAITH… in pre-Magisterium Days…

Scriptures? ARE A PART OF GOD…

NOTE: All that said, I’ve neither presented nor do I accept → Sola Scripturalism…

_

 

[Gorgias]

Let’s begin with… Magisterial Teachings re: The Magisterium from The Catholic Church

The Magisterium of the Church

[86] "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant.

Again, you’re conflating “magisterium” with “Sacred Tradition”, and therefore, missing the point.

 

[EndTimes]

Again, you’re conflating “magisterium” with “Sacred Tradition”, and therefore, missing the point.

No…

I have neither conflated Apostolic Tradition with Sacred Scriptures nor with the Magisterium.

I suggest that anyone reading this - read the CCC from Article 1 on through to Article 141 - complete

Peace…

 

[Gorgias]

No…

I have neither conflated Apostolic Tradition with Sacred Scriptures nor with the Magisterium.

If you say so. Here’s where you started doing so, however. When the question of “Tradition and Scripture” came up, you began asserting that Tradition (by virtue of being associated with the magisterium?) is “servant to the Scriptures”, and thus, ignoring the teaching that both Tradition and Scripture are to be venerated equally:

irenaeuslyons:

Tradition and Scripture are part of the Ordinary Magisterium.

Not So. The Magisterium is “servant to” Scriptures.

 

[EndTimes]

you began asserting that Tradition (by virtue of being associated with the magisterium?) is “servant to the Scriptures”

ah ha! No… And I quote:

Tradition and Scripture are part of the Ordinary Magisterium. – Irenaeuslyons

Not So. The Magisterium is “servant to” Scriptures. – EndTimes.

You see? I remain Correct even as I Correct those who are mistaken!

 

[irenaeuslyons]

Not So. The Magisterium is “servant to” Scriptures.

Yes, I agree that the proper interpretation of scripture can be a magisterial exercise, I do not doubt that at all.

In my opinion, the magisterium is not just descriptive of the exercise in teaching authority of the living Church today (college of bishops, pope etc), but also by competent authorities from the past. Consider for a second that Sacred Scripture gives us two infallible papal encyclicals by Peter, and many other teachings by Jesus which are all an exercise in magisterium (a.k.a. teaching authority). We have an apostolic council in Acts which is also an exercise in magisterium. We also have many early Church fathers/councils teaching with unanimity on the deposit of faith as part of our Sacred Tradition. So while those who can exercise magisterium are servants, the deposit of Faith they transmit also contains magisterial teachings. Which is why I said (awkwardly I admit) what I said.

 

[EndTimes]

Yes, I agree that the proper interpretation of scripture can be a magisterial exercise, I do not doubt that at all.

Additionally, let’s not forget that in the pre-Magisterium Days, not even the Written form of Jesus/Word - was the only vehicle of Salvation.

Recall too… that via the Magisterium and to the surprise of even some Catholics,
the Church respects Scriptures … just as She does - The Eucharist.

At Mass - Upon the Altar - Two LIturgies occur

The Liturgy of the Word (Jesus in Written Form) and the Liturgy of the Body (Eucharist - Jesus)

[133] The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.

141 "The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures as she venerated the Body of the Lord" (DV 21): both nourish and govern the whole Christian life. “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path” ( Ps 119:105; cf. Is 50:4).

135 “The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God” (DV 24).

136 God is the author of Sacred Scripture because he inspired its human authors; he acts in them and by means of them. He thus gives assurance that their writings teach without error his saving truth (cf. DV 11).

137 Interpretation of the inspired Scripture must be attentive above all to what God wants to reveal through the sacred authors for our salvation. What comes from the Spirit is not fully "understood except by the Spirit’s action’ (cf. Origen, Hom. in Ex . 4, 5: PG 12, 320).

138 The Church accepts and venerates as inspired the 46 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New.

139 The four Gospels occupy a central place because Christ Jesus is their center.

140 The unity of the two Testaments proceeds from the unity of God’s plan and his Revelation. The Old Testament prepares for the New and the New Testament fulfills the Old; the two shed light on each other; both are true Word of God.

 

[Gorgias]

You see? I remain Correct even as I Correct those who are mistaken!

Whatever. When you see your very words, and then claim they’re not what they are… maybe that’s a good time to leave you to your musings.

 

[EndTimes]

musings.

Correction doesn’t come easy for some…
’
Especially when Church Teachings undermine false argumentation…

Others have pointed out … repeated errors…

Anything else?

 

[Gorgias]

Others have pointed out your repeated errors…

Anything else?

Nope. That’s enough entertainment value for me for one evening!