Koran boy's skin mystery

[Lara_1]

“THOSE WHO believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” (Qur’an 2:62 & 5:69)

Fact: ”The Jewish population flourished for the first time in history under Islamic jurisprudence” – CNN.com, Religion & Ethics – Islam, 2002.

Muhammad’s (p) personal letter to the Christian monks of Mount Sinai around 630 AD:”Verily, I, the servants, the helpers and my followers defend them (the People of the book) because Christians are my citizens. And by God, I hold out against anything that displeases them.” The letter went on to assure Christians & Jews that they would have security of life, religion and property and assuredly they did. The letter ended with the admonition that its terms were binding on all Muslims till the Day of Judgment.

Prophet Muhammad (p) always concluded treaties with Christians and Jews assuring them peace, respect and freedom of work and worship. This letter and the way Muhammad (p) dealt with the People of the book of Arabia became the model for Islam’s successive Caliphs and commanders outside of Arabia.

“For centuries, perhaps a millennium, during which Islam dominated the area, conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims was the exception, not the norm. The norm was peace, harmony, coexistence and cooperation among those of the three religions.” - PhD Najib Saliba (A Christian Professor) 21st October 2008

A credited study of the spread of Islam by a Christian missionary, (Arnold, Sir Thomas W. “The Preaching Of Islam, A History Of the Propergation of the Muslim Faith”, Westminister A. Constable & Co., London, 1896, p. 80.): “…of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, **we hear nothing…the very survival of these [Eastern Churches] to the present day is a strong proof of the tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them” **

Khalid ibn al-Walid, the Arab commander to whom Damascus capitulated, issued the following declaration to the people of Damascus (who were predominantly Christians and Jews):

“In the name of God, the Most Kind, the Most Merciful. This is what Khalid ibn al-Walid would grant to the inhabitants of Damascus if he enters therein: he promises to give them security for their lives, property, and churches. Their city shall not be demolished; neither shall any Muslim be quartered in their houses.” Such promises were solidly kept, hence the famous & beautiful house of worship in Damascus which for centuries after this declaration was a Mosque, a Church and a Synagogue at the same time with all inhabitants worshipping according to their own free choice of faith.

Prodicalson, I presented you unequivocal historical facts with a hope that you are a genuine individual who seeks to understand rather than one who enjoys festering with pre-conceived notions. Hopefully such facts have compelled you cease such extreme views and begin to ponder on more balanced questions.

 

[Lara_1]

Prodicalson,

As, in essence, Islam shows nothing but respect for the goodness of humanity, the question that should be asked is why, **only in the last century, **have extremist movements against Zionism emerged in the region? The answer lies plainly in history.

So let’s simply read from Israeli Leaders themselves, of the intentions of Zionism, long before any Extremist anti-Zionist groups existed in the Arab world:

**“We must expel Arabs and take their places.” ** – Israel’s first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

**“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”—**First Israeli PM, David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

**“Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist…There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.” **- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

**“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.” ** - David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

Their ethnic cleansing does not end with Palestine alone. In 1918, Ben-Gurion described the future Zionist frontiers in details as follows: "to the north, the Litani river [in southern Lebanon], to the northeast, the Wadi 'Owja, twenty miles south of Damascus; the southern border will be mobile and pushed into Sinai at least up to Wadi al-'Arish; and to the east, the Syrian Desert, including the furthest edge of Transjordan"

With further atrocities in 1967, Moshe Dayan wrote in his memories regarding the ethnic cleansing and destruction of the 'Imwas, Bayt Nuba, Yalu, and big portion of the West Bank city of Qalqilya: “**houses were destroyed not in battle, but as punishment . . . in order to chase away the inhabitants . . . contrary to government policy.” **(Righteous Victims, p. 328)

Moshe Dayan once remarked: “Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice. We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice.” (Iron Wall, p. 316) What “advice” do they decline? Abiding by UN Security Councils Human Rights Resolutions under the Geneva convention, that have all been consistently broken from the onset.

With severe oppression reining until today, Israel continues exploiting the media, trying to convince the world that: **“Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial.” **-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Ariel Sharon, whilst faced with abiding by UN resolutions of withdrawing illegal jewish settlements in the Palestinian lands of the West Bank:** “Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours…Everything we don’t grab will go to them.”**-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

And so it is, the superpower Zionist state of Israel plunders and oppresses, whilst a people with no comparable defenses are heedlessly robbed of their dignity & human rights. Such extremist Israeli occupation that continues to this day has only brewed extremism within the inherently peaceful Arab Muslims who initially welcomed the Jewish people after the atrocities of WWII, unaware of Zionism’s strategy to ethnically cleanse them out.

The following are official Jewish organizations and Israeli Soldiers who speakout against Zionist abominations. I’ll let you do your research (by giving you domain names to google) if you wish to seek a true understanding of the issue:

couragetorefuse – thousands of Israeli Soldiers refusing to serve in occupied
territories – their reasons why.
refusersolidarity
Jewsagainstzionism
Jewsnotzionists
Nkusa - Orthodox Jews United against Zionism
Normanfinkelstein - Objective political analyst who cares for facts and full facts only.

What will end extremism you may ask? Freeing the Palestinians in every conceivable way that a human needs to be free. Starting with withdrawing the hundreds of illegal Jewish settlements that have broken up the West Bank into swiss cheese & imprisoned the Palestinians within their own land. This has oppressed them from going to school, working, living, visiting doctors and all the basic forms of human existence.

They are not allowed to leave and not allowed to live.

 

[Jay53]

What do the last two posts have to do with the topic? Were they posted here by mistake?

 

[prodigalson12]

What I love about the Koran, it has some good things intertwined with extreme opposites, the good texts, where it presents a peacful outlook are only taken out as snippets and pulled totally out of context.

You are mentioning things relavent to it’s formation, they were necessary in order to present a benevolent approach to that new religion, little did we know how it would unfold to be later on.

The facts remain as the fruits of what is going on in this modern day. Muslim based countries have the highest illiteracy rates, the highest poverty rates, the lowest standards of living, and these are it’s fruits. As the rest of the world moves forward, the muslim countries are moving backwards. The majority of them recite the Koran in Arabic, they don’t know the language at all, and don’t even know what they are reciting, and the translated versions are not even considered true copies of the Koran.

Lara_1, you are quoting world events, individuals opinions and statements, coloring it with a few actions that seemed to be positive at the time, other actions that are just the opposite. And I love how it always boils down to the Palestine problem, which can be resolved, but only after the world itself, not just a few Arab countries, clearly defines where Israels borders are at, and where theirs are at, and creates a clear dividing line, then jumps in to babysit the two for a while to stop hurling attacks at one another. If it is a matter of them having no legal ground to claim that part of the world as it’s own separate sovereignty, then they should be allowed to reside there as Israeli citizens, if it’s not the case, then by all means, they should be left alone, but I can’t blame Isreal for defending themselves against and aggressor, you start launching attacks at my country, there will be hell to pay…as it should with any country.

 

[Ceil-1]

If only Muslim nations treated the Christians the way Isrealis treat the Palestinians. What an upgrade that would be.

Of course, nasty-wasty Isreal is so bad, whereas, the Muslims wiping out Christianity in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and most recently in Lebanon. Now, that’s perfectly all right, you understand.

It’s all about who is who.:nope:

 

[prodigalson12]

If only Muslim nations treated the Christians the way Isrealis treat the Palestinians. What an upgrade that would be.

Of course, nasty-wasty Isreal is so bad, whereas, the Muslims wiping out Christianity in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and most recently in Lebanon. Now, that’s perfectly all right, you understand.

It’s all about who is who.:nope:

Yes, not to mention how gentle they are with Muslims that convert to Christianity…and their treatment of women, what an uplifting, positive approach as well, all of the world should follow their lead there…

 

[Lara_1]

So far prodicalson, I have given you nothing but solid sources & evidence and you have given me none. Noting that 1.6 billion Muslim people, is by no means some “cult sect”. Damning them all to oblivion only displays a dangerously misinformed frame of mind on your part.

I will leave the reader to do their own research by reading the Qur’an in its historical and full textual context. Again, for the English speaker, Mohammad Asad’s Translation “Message of the Qur’an” provides a fantastic source of historical & linguistic contexts for any part of the Qur’an they have in question.

On Israel? The fact is, prior to 1948 there were no active movements within the Arab world against any “jewish” people. So Palestinian Suffering is the cause - not Islam. All evidence I have given were from solid objective Jewish sources and from Israeli Leaders themselves. I have given the reader Jewish sources to read what knowledgeable Rabbis, Israeli Soldiers & professors have to say. So I happily leave it for the free thinking individual to do their own research and make up their own mind.

To that I say good luck, and may God rightly guide all who see humanity suffer and feel indifference.

PS For Googlers try “US Veto” & “Israel”

 

[Reuben_J]

What I love about the Koran, it has some good things intertwined with extreme opposites, the good texts, where it presents a peacful outlook are only taken out as snippets and pulled totally out of context.

This seems to be wee out of topic from the title of the thread, but anyway, this is surely big problem with Islam which claims to follow the teaching of Jesus. I have tried to do a bit of personal research and can’t find anything that can truly convince myself that Jesus and Islam teach the same thing.

The problem of the Quran in the context of the Bible is that even though it teaches universal values, all of these can be transgressed in certain situations.

A Muslim can kill if it is for the cause of Allah. He can lie if his life is in danger or if he wants to please his wife, like, “Honey, you look slim tonight”, even though he knows very well that she weighs two tons. He is exhorted to make friends but not to certain category of people. Muslims are allowed to marry up to four wives but not Mohammad, yet, Islam says he was just any normal and ordinary man. And the list goes on.

I went to Indonesia a few years back to attend an international conference. Among some of the experiences we had there was quite a number of Muslims came to us (brought by a Catholic priest who was a son of Muslim parents) asking for prayer and ministry. They were, it seemed been cursed/spelt by fellow Muslims. What surprised me was that verses from the Quran were being used for this purpose. You surely cannot imagine that Biblical verses are used to curse people. Anyway, that’s exactly what they did with Quranic verses.

These are among the many reasons that I cannot accept that the Quran is divinely inspired, as far as from the viewpoint of a Christian.

Now regarding the subject of the thread: Like I said, what happened to the child even if it was extraordinary, it may not be from God. I would say with reasons stated earlier that if it was extraordinary, the likely cause would be from the Evil One. Just because words of the Quran appear on his body does not automatically makes it a divine miracle. We know that Satan can quote the Bible pretty well too.

If miracle is the claim then it must be subjected to ample scrutiny, maybe along the line what Catholic does. But seeing that the child is suffering from pain the best course of action is to address the cause of pain so that it will suffer no more. In this case, ruling out the source of pain and if it’s from the Evil One, prayer of deliverance may be warranted.

God bless.

 

[Larryx]

I went to Indonesia a few years back to attend an international conference. Among some of the experiences we had there was quite a number of Muslims came to us (brought by a Catholic priest who was a son of Muslim parents) asking for prayer and ministry. They were, it seemed been cursed/spelt by fellow Muslims. What surprised me was that verses from the Quran were being used for this purpose. You surely cannot imagine that Biblical verses are used to curse people. Anyway, that’s exactly what they did with Quranic verses.

These are among the many reasons that I cannot accept that the Quran is divinely inspired, as far as from the viewpoint of a Christian.

.

Dear Sir:

The Holy Quran is Last Divine Book from God Almighty. This Book is Book of Truth and Guidence to whole Mankind. So It cannot be used to curse people.

What surprised you in your self-narrated story of Indonesia is either your misunderstanding or your narration is fictitious or fabrication of your mind.

May God Almighty guide you to the Right Path which is Islam.

 

[Reuben_J]

Dear Sir:

The Holy Quran is Last Divine Book from God Almighty. This Book is Book of Truth and Guidence to whole Mankind. So It cannot be used to curse people.

What surprised you in your self-narrated story of Indonesia is either your misunderstanding or your narration is fictitious or fabrication of your mind.

May God Almighty guide you to the Right Path which is Islam.

Hi, Peace be with you.

I am sure you believe it that way. I was seeing it all from a Christian point of view.

You seem to be making judgment on thing you do not like to hear though. I have nothing to gain by lying. I have some experiences and often use them to demonstrate my statement.

Yes, that was what happened in the Indonesia trip. I could not say it represented all Muslims but those Muslims who came to us said it like that. It could be an isolated incidents which I could not tell though. They had problem - one was of fear, and they came to us for prayer.

God bless you.

 

[pjk123]

Dear Reuben J ,I agree to this.Quran is used in Arabic Blackmagic all over the world.It comes from Satan.
Holy Bible and Prayers to Almight Father,Son and Roohad-Quedsha(Holy Spirit) is the Only Way to save from this Menace.

We ,As Catholics needs to help these people to leave the paganic moon god cult to Trinity.Faithfreedom.org and many other web sites helps in opening the Cult of Islam which suppresses truth By Slaughter.More and More Apostates must be born from Islam who must Help other Muslims to leave Islam.This way ,Humanity Benefits First.

 

[prodigalson12]

Holy Quran, what makes it holy, so far it has quite proven itself to be the opposite in all manners…submit some proof that it’s for all of mankind’s “best” interest to know. I keep hearing the same rhederic, yet zero substance to back it up what so ever…

 

[Sam_777]

Hi All,

This is unbelievable I saw this news on AOL and it’s just a miracle.

abcnews.go.com/WN/miracle-baby-koran-verses-infants-body/story?id=8889257

news.aol.com/article/russian-muslims-flock-to-see-miracle/732754?icid=main|main|dl1|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Frussian-muslims-flock-to-see-miracle%2F732754

I"m not very religious but this makes me remember a verse in the Quran which translates to something like

‘And we have left signs of Allah’s existence for those who realize it’

What do you guys think?

I think it should be verified by overseas certified doctors to till us if this is really a miracle, some sort of allergy, or a hoax.

 

[Lara_1]

Im intentionally not addressing the silly comments and ignorant insinuations being made on this board and addressing valid historical detail made by the level-headed ones here:

Thanks for correcting me on the date 1941, it was through out the entire 1940’s not just 1948 that was the begining of the implemenion of the concept of “Transference” or ethnic cleansing- ie seen by the posts quoting israels leaders and was the physical displacement of the palestinian people from their homes, this of course triggered many riots.

Yosef Weitz - Architect of the “Transfer” He stated in a meeting with the Transfer Committee on November 15, 1937:

“…the transfer of [Palestinian] Arab population from the area of the Jewish state does not serve only one aim–to diminish the Arab population. It also serves a second, no less important, aim which is to advocate land presently held and cultivated by the [Palestinian] Arabs and thus to release it for Jewish inhabitants.” - This extremist concept was thebreeding ground for the unfortunate extremism seen today.

Anglo-iraqi war had nothing to do with the jewish people, but with Britian building posts in Iraq to control oil and iraqi rebels not happy with it. Riots that occured in Israel during 1937 and beyond was triggered by the many military injustices caused (including the massacres) to rid the palestinians from their homes, which they successfully achieved!

Injustice breeds injustice.

Whether palestinian Christian or Palestinian Muslim (Or the Palestinian JEWS; who although were granted Israeli Citizenship, were still seen as second class by the European Jewish immigrants for their semetic features. Ironic - but white fascism ran deep in the new European jewish arrivals and was hard to shake back in those days) there is no justification for ethnically cleansing an entire population of people.

Point is injustice breeds injustice.

Whats hard for many Joes to grasp (who can blame them- they have been influenced by 1400years of false slander, the Dark ages of Europe spat out) is that for nearly a millenium during Islams Empire the norm in the middle east was respect and tolerance amongst all religions. That was the norm not the exception. As proven by the 100s of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scientists and scholars that came out of the epitopes of Knowledge centres in the world at the time- Baghdad and Cortoba.

 

[Lara_1]

Appealing to peoples Moderate intellect.

When reading Numbers (33:52) “…you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, destroy all their figured stones, destroy all their cast images, and demolish all their high places.” Or Matthew (10:34-35) where Jesus says: “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law”. Does one single out all those cut pasted verses and officially conclude that Christianity’s entire purpose is to bring a wrath of bloodshed upon mankind? And then use a few Christian extremists (KKK, Crusaders, Spanish Inquisition, Milosovic regime etc) to further prove such a point? Of course not.

Becoz, as intelligent human beings, we know that its absurd to think we can understand an entire text (or 1 of its passages) by considering a few words and excluding the rest of the chapter or book! If anyone is irrational enough to think otherwise -theyre not only going to misunderstand the Qur’an, but a cook book aswell. -or any other form of information.

So as rational people - we would agree that the considering a text as a whole is very important in understanding the outcome and Interpreting the Meaning of verses. Therefore, ones idea that the Qur’an promotes hatred from a passage here and there, is inconclusive and unreasonable.

The likes of a couple seen on this board mislead themselves into distorting its meaning by refusing to take into account the historical context of the verses (which are well documented) or the other 200 verses in the Book to do with the same topic (relations between beleivers and non beleivers). I’m sure the ones reading this are not uneducated enough to approach other texts in such a warped way- so why do so with the Qur’an?

May I recommend for English Speakers - Mohammad Asad’s Translation “Message of the Qur’an” so those interested can come to their own conclusions regarding any passages they have in question.

Regards
Lara_1

 

[prodigalson12]

truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=1125

Some vid not for the squeemish. You sure we have the level headed ones pointed out here???

You should see my stance on abortion, it too is something I refuse to keep silent and PC about.

any time there is clearly a state of peoples that commit atrocities to their fellow man, I have a big problem with, call me funny, but Allah “as you call God” has no love for your religion what so ever…he will eventually put his foot down on the matter for good and show you directly about that matter, for now, Thank him for his patience, he does give you a chance to repent.

 

[prodigalson12]

And more of the gentle nature of Islam, going to point to some “current” news on this one:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8324117.stm

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Whats hard for many Joes…

As others said, cease the sarcastic attitude and name-calling. It will accomplish nothing.

for nearly a millenium during Islams Empire the norm in the middle east was respect and tolerance amongst all religions. That was the norm not the exception.

Actually it was the exception. Even Mohammad was not entirely tolerant of them, particularly after he had gained power in the Arabian peninsula.

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5389]

It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim. Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4366]

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Umar bin Al-Khattab expelled all the Jews and Christians from the land of Hijaz. Allah’s Apostle after conquering Khaibar, thought of expelling the Jews from the land which, after he conquered it belonged to Allah, Allah’s Apostle and the Muslims. But the Jews requested Allah’s Apostle to leave them there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits (the land would yield). Allah’s Apostle said, “We shall keep you on these terms as long as we wish.” Thus they stayed till the time of 'Umar’s Caliphate when he expelled them to Taima and Ariha. Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 380]

I could quote more hadith sources where Mohammad commands that Muslims who leave Islam are to beheaded, and examples of this being carried out by his companions. This is not religious tolerance.

Some of his companions, in fact, later enacted laws that barred the Jews and Christians from worshiping openly, wearing outward signs of their faith, and fixing churches or monasteries that wore down. There is also the teaching found in the Koran of the jizya, which imposes a tax on non-Muslims so that they may feel, according to S. 9:29, “subjected,” “subdued,” or “brought low” (it depends on which translation you look at). Again, this is not tolerance.

Later on in history, people throughout Byzantium were often beheaded for refusing to convert, Hagia Sophia was turned into a mosque, and people throughout Muslim-held Balkans were forced to give up their children to the Janissaries and could not even ring bells at their churches. There are other examples, such as the persecutions in Spain, which were so bad at one point that Maimonides, the famous Jewish scholar, had to flee with his family (going through part of the Muslim world disguised as a Muslim just to survive).

The idea of a happy, tolerant Muslim world in the pre-terrorist era is good for elementary school lessons, but it does not hold up upon closer examination of history.

When reading Numbers (33:52) “…you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, destroy all their figured stones, destroy all their cast images, and demolish all their high places.” Or Matthew (10:34-35) where Jesus says: “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law”. Does one single out all those cut pasted verses and officially conclude that Christianity’s entire purpose is to bring a wrath of bloodshed upon mankind? And then use a few Christian extremists (KKK, Crusaders, Spanish Inquisition, Milosovic regime etc) to further prove such a point? Of course not.

The difference is that the earliest Church Fathers often saw supposedly “violent” passages in the Bible (especially in the Psalms and Gospels, such as the one you quoted) as being metaphorical in nature. One only has to read one volume of the Philokalia to see this. It wasn’t until recently, with some crazy Evangelical/Charismatic fringe groups, that you began to see some Christians taking them seriously.

On the other hand, we see the exact opposite in Islam: the earliest Muslim scholars took the violent passages in the Koran to mean violence, whereas it wasn’t until recently that some Muslims began to argue that every single passage about war is talking about a spiritual war. Yet again, when we look to the earliest Muslim scholars, we find that passages such as S. 9:29 are taken to mean what they mean.

 

[benidict]

have they heard about photo shop in the arab world?

 

[Sam_777]

have they heard about photo shop in the arab world?

I don’t think that is a photoshop manipulation, see this Youtube video.