KORAN- ERRORS & Contradictions

[Montalban]

oh come on guys, you know this is translated wrong.

That’s what I thought

 

[Montalban]

Dont paste pages and pages of worthless banter montalban!! just paste your proof in brief!!

Meedo, I’m still waiting for a reasoned response to the evidence I gave you.

Several Moslem sites admit that the Koran’s dealing with how they think Christians deal with the Trinity

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Clearly, the Quran has Allah asking Jesus if he taught the Christians to worship him and his mother Mary as two GODS besides Allah.

That is undeniable.

So, either you call it a mistaken trinity or not, it is clear that the Quran is wrong about Christian theology.

If Muhammad thought the Christians worshipped Jesus, Mary and Allah as the Trinity - it proves him a false prophet and Allah a false god.

If Muhammad didn’t think the Christians worshipped Jesus, Mary and Allah as the Trinity but merely as TWO GODS BESIDES ALLAH - it also proves him a false prophet and Allah a false god.

Because Jesus NEVER taught the Christians to worthip Mary as a God or part of the Trinity.

End of story.

Hasta la vista, baby,
Rodrigo

 

[Montalban]

Clearly, the Quran has Allah asking Jesus if he taught the Christians to worship him and his mother Mary as two GODS besides Allah.

That is undeniable.

So, either you call it a mistaken trinity or not, it is clear that the Quran is wrong about Christian theology.

If Muhammad thought the Christians worshipped Jesus, Mary and Allah as the Trinity - it proves him a false prophet and Allah a false god.

If Muhammad didn’t think the Christians worshipped Jesus, Mary and Allah as the Trinity but merely as TWO GODS BESIDES ALLAH - it also proves him a false prophet and Allah a false god.

Because Jesus NEVER taught the Christians to worthip Mary as a God or part of the Trinity.

End of story.

Hasta la vista, baby,
Rodrigo

Indeed, surely a god would at least know what it was Chrisitans were worshipping.

It’s important to note that when Muhammed wrote this mistake, several Councils had already established the formula for the Trinity

 

[Abraxsis]

More so than that the Koran says that all muslims should respect and believe in the Christian holy scriptures. It is not until later that it starts to talk about these texts as being corrupted…so it contradicts itself yet again…

Question for muslims…

If Jesus was from Allah and Mohammed is from Allah (sent by Allah that is, the God of Abraham) then how come the two say very different things? Shouldnt they say the same thing if they are from the same God? it makes no sense…

 

[inJESUS]

Question for muslims…

If Jesus was from Allah and Mohammed is from Allah (sent by Allah that is, the God of Abraham) then how come the two say very different things? Shouldnt they say the same thing if they are from the same God? it makes no sense…

easy, take this example : Jesus taught polygamy but we corrupted it by choosing monogamy!

apply the same to each and every word Jesus said that opposes what Muhammad taught. In other words, all Jesus’ words must be corrupt

 

[inJESUS]

What do most of you see in this Quranic narrative:

There came Our Messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, “Peace!” He answered, “Peace!” and hastened to entertain them with a roasted calf. But when he saw their hands not reaching towards the (meal), he felt some mistrust of them, and conceived a fear of them. They said: “Fear not: We have been sent against the people of Lüt.” And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: **But **We gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob. She said: Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!" They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah’s decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory! S. 11:69-73

the Biblical record goes like this:

“‘Where is your wife Sarah?’ they asked him. ‘There, in the tent,’ he said. Then the LORD said, ‘I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son.’ Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. Abraham and Sarah were already old and well advanced in years, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing. So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, ‘After I am worn out and my master is old, will I now have this pleasure?’ Then the LORD said to Abraham, ‘Why did Sarah laugh and say, “Will I really have a child, now that I am old?” Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son. Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, ‘I did not laugh.’ But he said, ‘Yes, you did laugh.’” Genesis 18:9-15

Isaac means “laughter” exactly because Sarah laughed at the idea. But why did Sarah laugh BEFORE the glad tidings in the Quran?

am interested in this point if anyone got an answer. thx.

 

[Montalban]

easy, take this example : Jesus taught polygamy but we corrupted it by choosing monogamy!

apply the same to each and every word Jesus said that opposes what Muhammad taught. In other words, all Jesus’ words must be corrupt

That’s the line Moslems would in fact take - that the teachings of Jesus (the real ones) were the same as Muhammed.

So they would believe that Jesus would have said something like “Go and kill all non-believers” and some ‘evil’ people corrupted that to say “Love your neighbour”

That’s how mixed-up Islam is!

 

[De_Maria]

Sorry sir, but you are refering me to a site who is refeering to something he doesnt site of any sources

Except the Quran.

. The simple fact is that The Quran doesnt establish what the trinity is .

Yes, it does. You simply wish to ignore it so that you can make an argument. But if you read the statement in context, it is very clear:

"O People of the Book!

First mistake, Christians, the ones who worship the Trinity, are not people of the book. We are people of the Word of God, worshippers of the Trinity.

Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word,

Second mistake and contradiction. Note how Jesus Christ is called Allah’s Word. But the Quran is also called Allah’s Word. And Allah’s Word is eternal, existing in heaven with Allah. Therefore, the Quran identifies another Trinity which it does not acknowledge.

which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him:

Another error. Any Spirit proceeding from God is God.

so believe in God and His apostles. Say not “Trinity”

Why has Allah suddenly said, “Say not Trinity”, after He has been explaining that Jesus and Mary are not God? Obviously because He equates these three with the Trinity of Christians.

: desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God:

Anolther error. He equates the Trinity with three gods. Yet the Trinity is one God in three Divine persons.

Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son.
To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs." (Koran 4:171)

"They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity:

Clearly, here he is saying that Allah is included in a Trinity.

for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." (Koran 5:73)

And a penalty is given for those who claim that Allah is not one God. But lets see, doesn’t Allah refer to Himself as “We”? Curious? Why would a nonTrinitarian God refer to Himself in the plural?

Infact the Quran denounces any form of trinity whatever it may take.

Correct. So here you contradict your previous statement (message #3):

Dear, The Quran wasnt refering to the trinity.

And as for the devinity of Marty, teh definition of actions that would be suitable for the devine is broader with muslims than with Christians. If you call on Mary to help you that according to islam is making her partially devine and thus consiidered idolatry.

And that again, is a problem with Islam. Islam imposes its own definition on other religions doctrines.

There is nothing wrong or contradictory i the Quran

You wish to ignore all that is wrong and contradictory in the Quran. But it is there.

and the Quran doesnt really care to establish your trinity for you.

Isn’t that starnge? Above you said that Islam established that the Catholic practice of praying to Mary is idolatry, but now you say that Islam does nt care to establish our doctrines.

For one thing, did anyone here say that the Quran was establishing our Trinity? God revealed the Trinity to us in His ultimate Revelation through His Son Jesus Christ. We don’t need anything from the Quran to understand Christian doctrine.

But we do say that Allah got it wrong in the Quran. Allah doesn’t know the true nature of the Trinity which Christians worship. And that is either an error on Mohammed’s part or on Allah’s part. In either case, it highlights the human origins of the Quran.

the reference of mary ín that sense is a reference to another problem apart from the trinity concept, which is the problem of attributing Godly powers to humans.

No, that highlights the problem in the Quran. You see, Allah should know better. Allah should know that we don’t attribute Godly powers to Mary or any other human, except Jesus who is true God and true Man. If He is going to mention some other religion’s doctrine, Allah should be clear and accurate as to the true doctrine. The True God would do no less. Everytime that Yahweh mentions another religion in the Bible, His description is accurate.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

I think that the person meant that it formalised the Arabic language - by having a standard text with grammar, spellings etc.

It should thus be ‘easier’ to look at the Koran because it’s a standard… whereas a modern reader in English can get mixed up just reading Shakespeare… which is much more recent.

Why Arabic, anyway? Why would their god tie faith into having to learn a particular language?

That’s a good point Maltese is a semetic langauge - the only one using the Roman script.

You can learn it, or any Semetic language, including Arabic.

Meedo and others simply want to pretend that many of the errors come from mistranslations… its a way of projecting the errors onto someone else

Hello Montalban,

You seem an expert on Islam. Has anyone ever studied whether the different Suras have a different writing style that can identify the Scribe who wrote it?

The reason I ask, is because Muslims that Mohammed was an uneducated man, then at the same time claim that he spoke in excellent Arabic. Even in his personal speech. However, since Mohammed died before the current Quran was actually compiled, human memory being what it is, I suspect that Mohammed’s actual words can hardly be found in the Quran. But I can’t prove it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

As for errors in Grammer , this is simply impossible for one simple reason. The quran IS the source and the thrust behind the Modern day Standard Arabic Language. It is the thrust of how this language developed to be a used language. The Quran Judges the arabic language and not vice versa.

In other words, errors in grammar were standardized and made part of the language. Sort of like how commonly used slang has been incorporated into many human languages.

As for teh Historical errors or contradioctions i havent seen any so far. All i have seen is desperate attempts to use people igniorance of arabic language and Quran to attack it.

thanks

Meedo

What I see is Muslims who have closed their eyes to the truth.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[MMLJ]

Hi

Please read the context of the verses, Quran simply does not say what you have mentioned above.

Since, you seem to have many a questions, and I don’t debate with anybody. I only discuss. I suggest you to kindly study all such verses from the following link, that would clear the true perspective of the verses:
alislam.org/
Quran in English w/ 5 Vol. Commentary

Thanks

You are quoting an Ahmadiyya site. My Sunni and Shia colleagues have said that your sect is not true Islam and that it is not even one of he four major denominations. In actual fact, according to world statistics, your sect comprises less than 0.7 % of total the Muslim population (i.e <0.7%, not even 1%). That is why most cannot use sites such as yours as reference. the fact of the matter is that your sect is a minority in Islam, and not acknowledged by The Sunni and Shia.

 

[De_Maria]

What exactly dont you understand? Its as simple as using old english instead of modern day english. Old english isnt wrong it is just old.

1- i cant find any mention of any heavens in the surah and verse you mentioned Surah 70:27-30)

That should be Surah 79:27-30.

2- All Angels obey Allah , the second verse you are mentioning refers to satan who isnt an angel but a Jin

Satan and the Jin are fallen angels:

The Quran clearly states that Satan was an angel, by virtue of the immense powers and rank bestowed upon him. This is why he is addressed as an angel (2:34, 7:11, 15:29, 17:61, 18:50, 20:116, 38:71) prior to his fall. By definition, a jinn is a fallen angel (18:50). Satan’s rebellion teaches us that the angels were created with minds of their own, and absolute freedom of choice. (2:34).
submission.org/satan/app21letter.html

created from fire. the Quran states that he was from the angels in the sense that he used to worship God in their ranks.

Quote the specific Quranic verse which makes the distinction.

Its like saying I am Egyptian by birth But lived all my life in Canada . Yes i am an Egyptian by birth and yes people will consider me canadian because all my life and family work and bieng raised in canada . ( for example)

Not the same at all.

An angel is a creature. Satan was created an angel in heaven. He remains an angel outside of heaven. Angels who have been refused citizenship in heaven are called Jinn.

To correlate to your situation, you were born a human being in Egypt. You did not change species when you moved to Canada. You remain a human being in Canada. Human beings who claim citizenship in Canada are called Canadians.

There is no contradiction here .

Not only is there contradiction, but there is error and inconsistent application within Islam from mosque to mosque.

3- Pharough drowned . The Quran states that his body survived to be collected by the Egyptians and to be a reminder of the power of <god over his enemies . havent you ever heared some one die drowning but they found teh corps intact?? hweats contradictory about that ?

Strange explanation indeed.

10:90 We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: “I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam).”

It sounds as though Pharoah repented and converted to Islam.

10:91 (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!

But apparently his sincerity was doubted.

10:92 “This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!”
*
Yet, Allah (We) says We will save Pharoah in the body. *This sounds very much as though Allah will make Pharoah a living sign, not a dead sign.

i will reply for the rest when i have more time ,

Looking forward to it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Perhaps you failed to notice that it took 2 days to make the earth:

(Koran 41:9)
Is it that ye Deny Him who created the earth in TWO days?..

But 4 days to create the mountains alone:
(Koran 41:10)

He set on the (earth). Mountains standing firm,
high above it, and bestowed blessings on the
earth, and measured therein all things to
give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR days…

Rrg…I hate to say it, but that’s not necessarily the nail in the coffin that you hoped.

If it isn’t a nail, it is certainly an important indicator in the Coroner’s report revealing that the patient is Dead on Arrival (DOA).

All of the 6-day passages state ‘the heavens and the earth.’ However, the 2-day ones specify only the earth. Now, I don’t know the Qu’ran at all, but depending on context, that doesn’t contradict.

Check out the four day passage.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

am interested in this point if anyone got an answer. thx.

I don’t. But I’ll venture to guess that Mohammed depicted her as laughing because he couldn’t quite recall the true narrative correctly. Am I close?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[paarsurrey]

You are quoting an Ahmadiyya site. My Sunni and Shia colleagues have said that your sect is not true Islam and that it is not even one of he four major denominations. In actual fact, according to world statistics, your sect comprises less than 0.7 % of total the Muslim population (i.e <0.7%, not even 1%). That is why most cannot use sites such as yours as reference. the fact of the matter is that your sect is a minority in Islam, and not acknowledged by The Sunni and Shia.

Hi

I never think Truth in terms of majority or minority basis, and I never claimed as such. I suggested you only to kindly study all such verses from the following link, that would clear the true perspective of the verses:
alislam.org/
Quran in English w/ 5 Vol. Commentary
that is if you want to know the truth, if you are not interested in the truth, there is no compulsion.

Thanks

 

[inJESUS]

I don’t. But I’ll venture to guess that Mohammed depicted her as laughing because he couldn’t quite recall the true narrative correctly. Am I close?

Sincerely,

De Maria

thats what i thought too

 

[inJESUS]

Verily, We have sent you as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner. In order that you may believe in Allah AND His Messenger, and that you assist and honour **HIM **and **glorify HIS **praises morning and afternoon. Verily, those who give allegiance to you they are giving to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his pledge breaks only to his own harm, and whosoever fulfills what he has covenanted with Allah, He will bestow on him a great reward. S. 48:8-10

It is idolatory to say ‘succour Him, and reverence Him, and that you may give Him glory at the dawn and in the evening’ about Muhammad, since glory should be given to God alone. It is also wrong to make such a statement with reference to God, since God is not in need for succour or help.

what is this chaos about?

 

[Montalban]

You are quoting an Ahmadiyya site. My Sunni and Shia colleagues have said that your sect is not true Islam and that it is not even one of he four major denominations. In actual fact, according to world statistics, your sect comprises less than 0.7 % of total the Muslim population (i.e <0.7%, not even 1%). That is why most cannot use sites such as yours as reference. the fact of the matter is that your sect is a minority in Islam, and not acknowledged by The Sunni and Shia.

paarsurrey’s not here to debate. But here he offers what must be the opposite of a vox populii fallacy - that is, it’s true, because so few of them believe it!

 

[inJESUS]

I came across this link that talks about the Arabic language before Islam and how Muslims changed the meaning of the words by saying they mean x in this or that language so they must mean the same in Arabic, all this to resolve the grammatical and meaning-wise mistakes of the Quran. All quotes taken from Islamic sources.

I quote:

We have seen that wine means vinegar and it also means grapes. Below means abdomen. To despair means to know and inside means outside. To buy is to sell. Behind means in front, before is after, last is first and first is last.

answering-islam.org/Authors/Newton/inventions.html