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Kreeft: Pro-Abort Catholics More Damaging than Sex-Abuse Scandal
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Oren
Guest
Yeah, I just watched his speech on video. It was a really great speech. His writings are great too. Some of the stuff he says about Muslims and his overall attitude about it is questionable in my opinion, but other than that he knows what’s what.
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BVM_1221
Guest
Oh really? I must have missed all the news stories about the millions of dollars paid out by the Catholic Church because of the actions of the pro-abortion Catholics.
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DihydrogenOxide
Guest
That’s a pretty snarky stance for a catholic. Money isn’t the point, souls are.Oh really? I must have missed all the news stories about the millions of dollars paid out by the Catholic Church because of the actions of the pro-abortion Catholics.
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LiveCatholic
Guest
No, good question, there.Oh really? I must have missed all the news stories about the millions of dollars paid out by the Catholic Church because of the actions of the pro-abortion Catholics.
How much money, time, and effort do you think the Catholic Church doles out in support of Pro-Life or anti-abortion causes? How many hundreds of thousands of hours have lay Catholics spent canvassing, writing politicians, waiting outside of abortion clinics, &c? How much do you reckon?
…and then we have these Catholic Quislings, sitting in government, and enabling this monstrosity. Not only this, but the sense we take away, that there is another kind of Catholic–a Catholic who can have his cake and eat it, too. Who can get to have a marriage, baptism, &c. in a great church edifice, but who can flout true religion and appear ‘progressive’ to their friends.
People like this completely dilute all of the efforts made by people actually walking the walk.
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BVM_1221
Guest
:tsktsk:
Do you have any documentation as to which issue causes more to leave the church, or not join in the first place? The issue of abortion or the sex scandles? :coffeeread:
Oh yes, and a precise definition of what is meant by “damaging” in this context might also help.
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I might also point out that the huge amounts of money for sex abuse payouts reduces that amount of money for othergood works…feeding the hungry, medical help for the poor, schooling assisstence, etc etc etc
Not to mention educating Catholics as to exactly where the Church stands on abortion, and other anti-abortion efforts financed by the Church
By any chance would your comment about souls apply to those who flee the Church, or refuse to join, because of the sex scandles?That’s a pretty snarky stance for a catholic. Money isn’t the point, souls are.
Do you have any documentation as to which issue causes more to leave the church, or not join in the first place? The issue of abortion or the sex scandles? :coffeeread:
Oh yes, and a precise definition of what is meant by “damaging” in this context might also help.
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I might also point out that the huge amounts of money for sex abuse payouts reduces that amount of money for othergood works…feeding the hungry, medical help for the poor, schooling assisstence, etc etc etc
Not to mention educating Catholics as to exactly where the Church stands on abortion, and other anti-abortion efforts financed by the Church
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LiveCatholic
Guest
This post was quite unique… I’ve never seen so many moving icons during my entire time on CAF!:tsktsk:
By any chance would your comment about souls apply to those who flee the Church, or refuse to join, because of the sex scandles?
Do you have any documentation as to which issue causes more to leave the church, or not join in the first place? The issue of abortion or the sex scandles? :coffeeread:
Oh yes, and a precise definition of what is meant by “damaging” in this context might also help.
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I might also point out that the huge amounts of money for sex abuse payouts reduces that amount of money for othergood works…feeding the hungry, medical help for the poor, schooling assisstence, etc etc etc
Not to mention educating Catholics as to exactly where the Church stands on abortion, and other anti-abortion efforts financed by the Church
In any case, I can tell you for a fact that people are far more willing to overlook a rogue cleric than the fact that there seems to be two different kinds of Catholics–Catholics who live by the Church’s teaching, and those that openly disobey it. Both are accepted as ‘Catholics.’
This isn’t to say they should be put on the rack, but we should be calling a spade, a spade, here.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Not having a Catholic backround from birth onwards, allows me the chance to reach out to you beyond the emocitions you hide behind if you will.:tsktsk:
By any chance would your comment about souls apply to those who flee the Church, or refuse to join, because of the sex scandles?
Do you have any documentation as to which issue causes more to leave the church, or not join in the first place? The issue of abortion or the sex scandles? :coffeeread:
Oh yes, and a precise definition of what is meant by “damaging” in this context might also help.
@@@@@@@@@@@
I might also point out that the huge amounts of money for sex abuse payouts reduces that amount of money for othergood works…feeding the hungry, medical help for the poor, schooling assisstence, etc etc etc
Not to mention educating Catholics as to exactly where the Church stands on abortion, and other anti-abortion efforts financed by the Church
Regarding the objections you raise regarding the sex scandals.
If you have the time or inclination to make an argument about how the Catholic Church has made error in matters of faith or of morals you must do so.
If the Catholic Church ever promised you that your priests or Bishops would be upstanding moral people in all times and places, then I think you are morally bound to hold the Catholic Church up to the lamplight.
However, your post is rather dull in the sense that you make no case on your own.
You find something Kreeft said yet you safeguard yourself by not openly stating your view on the matter. Kreeft is not the final say on any matter in the Catholic Church, no matter how interesting his arguments are.
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LiveCatholic
Guest
Wow, I’ve got to completely agree with you on this one, 'berry.
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OriginalJS
Guest
The speaker made an argument, but did not support it with evidence. What damage is he referring to? What is the extent of the damage? How is this damage measured? What examples of such damage can be observed by the everyday Catholic? His is a personal opinion of a very complex issue, nothing more.
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
I can’t agree with Kreeft. It is widely known and understood that the Catholic Church is against abortion. When prominent public Catholics come out in favor of abortion, that reflects on them individually. The sex scandals indicted the institution and integrity of the Church - a far broader source of damage.
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Birdpreacher
Guest
I pray for the end of abortion like every other Catholic but to say that Politics trump child abuse is just sickening.
I mean when it comes to voting, a 18 year old will exercise their free will and hopefully vote w/ their conscious as the Church teaches. If someone who does not speak for the Church confuses them on pro-life issues that is sad but not tragic as the **clergy **can correct the mistake
When it comes to sex-scandal, a** child**, who cant exercise his conscious fully is dependent on adults to learn ethics. The child must trust the clergy completely as he/she is being taught that all truth comes from the Church. This fundamental abuse of trust of the most innocent is far more nauseating when compared to the inability of the Church to effectively communicate its pro-life teachings.
I mean when it comes to voting, a 18 year old will exercise their free will and hopefully vote w/ their conscious as the Church teaches. If someone who does not speak for the Church confuses them on pro-life issues that is sad but not tragic as the **clergy **can correct the mistake
When it comes to sex-scandal, a** child**, who cant exercise his conscious fully is dependent on adults to learn ethics. The child must trust the clergy completely as he/she is being taught that all truth comes from the Church. This fundamental abuse of trust of the most innocent is far more nauseating when compared to the inability of the Church to effectively communicate its pro-life teachings.
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GraceSofia
Guest
To understand where Dr. Kreeft is coming from, it is useful to look at how certain American Catholic politicians used the faith to cover for their pro-abort political ends. Here is Father Zuhlsdorf:
The 1964 Hyannisport Conclave: Catholic leaders teaching Catholic pols how to ignore evil
The 1964 Hyannisport Conclave: Catholic leaders teaching Catholic pols how to ignore evil
No Catholic would ever say that sexual abuse is acceptable, and no Catholic *should *ever say that abortion is acceptable, but… well, there you have it. So the damage done is insidious, like termites eating a house.
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Sarahforgiven
Guest
Both abortion and sexual abuse destroy children. I can see where Dr. K is coming from. It is almost more sick that the politicians openly support abortion. I mean no one would openly support child abuse as a right.
I think it is all really sad.
I think it is all really sad.
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mommamia
Guest
I don’t even quite know what to say.
IMO, this comes off as somehow trying to “play down” the seriousness of the sex abuse.
You can in no way say that what the lay people do reflect on the Church nearly as much as what our supposed leaders have done.
IMO, this comes off as somehow trying to “play down” the seriousness of the sex abuse.
You can in no way say that what the lay people do reflect on the Church nearly as much as what our supposed leaders have done.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Both abortion and sexual abuse of children are intrinsic evils.
How you can say one is more damaging than the other is an attempt in denial of the damage done.
Jim
How you can say one is more damaging than the other is an attempt in denial of the damage done.
Jim
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estesbob
Guest
Both intrinsic evils and both extremely damaging and yet we constantly seek Catholics twisting themselves into knots explaining why it’s okay to support politicians who support abortion.
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BVM_1221
Guest
Maybe, perhaps, because they know something you and many others in these forums refuse to accept and understand.
“Intrinsic” does not mean “infinite”. :dts:
It is another way of saying "alway"s. Boiling oil is intrinsicly/always hot. But although boiling oil is intrinsicly hot, it is not infinitely hot.:tsktsk:
Which means you cannot understand that when most Catholics vote Democrat, they are NOT voting for abortion. They are voting for a wide range of issues supported by the Democrats and opposed by the Republicans.
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estesbob
Guest
Would you vote for a canidate who supported pediophilia if you agreed with them on all other issues? If not why do you have a lower standard for Abortion than pediophilia?Maybe, perhaps, because they know something you and many others in these forums refuse to accept and understand.
“Intrinsic” does not mean “infinite”. :dts:
It is another way of saying "alway"s. Boiling oil is intrinsicly/always hot. But although boiling oil is intrinsicly hot, it is not infinitely hot.:tsktsk:
Which means you cannot understand that when most Catholics vote Democrat, they are NOT voting for abortion. They are voting for a wide range of issues supported by the Democrats and opposed by the Republicans.
Archbishop Chaput descibes this rationale as moral gymnastcis wotrhy of of olympic gold medal
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BVM_1221
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I was wondering how long it would take for SOMEBODY to drag in child molesters into this arguement. Well, given the Catholic Church’s record in covering up, shoelding, and stonewalling for its own child molesting priests, why should I pay attention to the moral teachings of the Catholic Church?:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk:
(Well, I do, because I know full well that the Church itself cannot sin, but we do have sinners, and that can include Bishops. But many non-Catholics do not understand that, and regard the Church as full of hipocrits.):crying:
And now that the child molesters have been dragged in, can Hitler, the Nazis, and the word :holocaust" be far behind?
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