Krister Stendahl, bishop of Stockholm

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As with Catholics, most Lutherans look to Europe for apostolic guidance and why most north American Lutherans are episcopacies.

I offer this segment of a memoriam on Krister Stendahl and how the Church of Sweden has shaped contemporary Lutheranism:
Krister Stendahl, New Testament scholar, ecumenist, former Dean of Harvard Divinity School, Bishop in the Church of Sweden, advocate for women and lesbian and gay people, and pioneer in Jewish-Christian relations, died on Tuesday, April 15 in Boston. A memorial service for Bishop Stendahl will be held at Harvard’s Memorial Church on Friday, May 16 at 3:00 p.m.
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At his core, Krister Stendahl was a priest. A reverent and exquisite presider, he celebrated a weekly Eucharist at Harvard Divinity School, early in the morning on a weekday, with a cluster of students and a handful of faculty and administrators whose affiliations ranged from Unitarian Universalist to Roman Catholic. He did this when he was Dean and again when he returned to the faculty after his time as Bishop of Stockholm, faithfully. He preached short, beautiful homilies, choosing his words well, always giving time to silence
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episcopalcafe.com/daily/people/in_memoriam_krister_stendahl.php

Any thoughts?
 
Krister Stendahl, New Testament scholar, ecumenist, former Dean of Harvard Divinity School, Bishop in the Church of Sweden, advocate for women and lesbian and gay people, and pioneer in Jewish-Christian relations, died on Tuesday, April 15 in Boston. A memorial service for Bishop Stendahl will be held at Harvard’s Memorial Church on Friday, May 16 at 3:00 p.m.
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At his core, Krister Stendahl was a priest. A reverent and exquisite presider, he celebrated a weekly Eucharist at Harvard Divinity School, early in the morning on a weekday, with a cluster of students and a handful of faculty and administrators whose affiliations ranged from Unitarian Universalist to Roman Catholic. He did this when he was Dean and again when he returned to the faculty after his time as Bishop of Stockholm, faithfully. He preached short, beautiful homilies, choosing his words well, always giving time to silence
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You lost me at the bold. 😦
 
Another post from EvangleCatholic promoting ordination of people engaging in persistent sin contrary to Catholic (and historic Lutheran) teaching.

:hmmm:
 
As I point out, I am not well-versed in women ordination and gay ordination/ marriage. What I hope to do with this info on Bishop Stendahl is expose readers to Christian theologians who seek discernment in Scripture and God’s Will.

Also those unfamiliar with the ELCA may gain insight by understanding our bishops.
his 1958 (Eng. 1966) book, The Bible and the Role of Women, written in the Swedish context of the debate on women’s ordination, Krister Stendahl addresses the argument that because Jesus called only male apostles, only males may become priests. “By what right is this act made binding in ministry and interpreted that only males may serve in ministry?” he asks. In the cultural context in which apostles were identified with the 12 tribes of Israel, he notes, what other cultural alternative was there? He confessed in a talk to a gathering of new bishops at General Theological Seminary that he was tempted to ask Cardinal Joseph Bernardin how many Catholic priests were Jews. Wouldn’t Jesus’ Jewishness, he asked, rank more highly than his maleness in traits of the incarnation?
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Why I Love the Bible
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“The first “no” is the one which became the watershed in my love story with the Bible: It is not about me. In Galatians 3 it says that the law became, as many people translated, the tutor unto Christ. And I had learned, in good Lutheran theology—and John Wesley was on that line, too—that the law was for the preparation of my conscience. The law was the tutor, and tutored me so that I could fully understand not only what I should do, but also that I couldn’t live up to it, and hence needed a savior. The law was a tutor unto Christ, preparing, tendering my conscience, so that my need for forgiveness would become so great”
hds.harvard.edu/news-events/harvard-divinity-bulletin/articles/why-i-love-the-bible.
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EvangelCatholic said:
As I point out, I am not well-versed in women ordination and gay ordination/ marriage.
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That’s doesn’t jibe with your posting history - you persistently post threads about the topic. Frankly, as a guest to these good Catholics and their forums, for myself I would never post threads knowing that their subject and tone go against the teaching of the Catholic church.

If was in their shoes I would not be so generous in giving a guest a platform to persistently bring up modern teaching that is contrary to historic Christianity. I tend to be a quite worried about leading others away from the cross, so perhaps that’s my own standard.
 
benjohnson said:
That’s doesn’t jibe with your posting history - you persistently post threads about the topic. Frankly, as a guest to these good Catholics and their forums, for myself I would never post threads knowing that their subject and tone go against the teaching of the Catholic church.

If was in their shoes I would not be so generous in giving a guest a platform to persistently bring up modern teaching that is contrary to historic Christianity. I tend to be a quite worried about leading others away from the cross, so perhaps that’s my own standard.
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To each their own
 
EvangelCatholic said:
As with Catholics, most Lutherans look to Europe for apostolic guidance and why most north American Lutherans are episcopacies.

I offer this segment of a memoriam on Krister Stendahl and how the Church of Sweden has shaped contemporary Lutheranism:

Any thoughts?
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Yes. I am far more interested in making sure historic Lutheranism shapes contemporary Lutheranism. I am far more interested in making sure that contemporary Lutheranism is steadfastly guarded against modernist, liberal innovations. I am far more interested in seeing contemporary Lutheranism preach the word and administer the sacraments, that we care for the least of God’s children.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Yes. I am far more interested in making sure historic Lutheranism shapes contemporary Lutheranism. I am far more interested in making sure that contemporary Lutheranism is steadfastly guarded against modernist, liberal innovations. I am far more interested in seeing contemporary Lutheranism preach the word and administer the sacraments, that we care for the least of God’s children.

Jon
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One only need look up the number of synods/ dioceses with female pastors. The Lutheranism you insist on is relative and fully acceptable as a certain belief but not as a polity. All my LCMS family are warmly invited to commune in my parish. We are attached in the most holy Sacrament. That is where we start.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
One only need look up the number of synods/ dioceses with female pastors. The Lutheranism you insist on is relative and fully acceptable as a certain belief but not as a polity. All my LCMS family are warmly invited to commune in my parish. We are attached in the most holy Sacrament. That is where we start.
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Oh, this is not an issue of polity, but one of doctrine. It is not a Lutheranism I insist on that matters. It is the Lutheranism insisted on by scripture and the confessions.

So, I ask the question I asked you on another thread, which you referred to this one:

if you, indeed, are a Lutheran, and your synod practices sola scriptura, and reads scripture in the light of the Lutheran confessions, then you should be able to support from scripture and the confessions what you post here, not only about ordination, but about human sexual behavior.
In short, where does scripture say, or at least not contradict the statement, that homosexuality is a moral behavior? Where is the innovation of ordaining women supported in scripture or Lutheran orthodoxy?

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Oh, this is not an issue of polity, but one of doctrine. It is not a Lutheranism I insist on that matters. It is the Lutheranism insisted on by scripture and the confessions.

So, I ask the question I asked you on another thread, which you referred to this one:

if you, indeed, are a Lutheran, and your synod practices sola scriptura, and reads scripture in the light of the Lutheran confessions, then you should be able to support from scripture and the confessions what you post here, not only about ordination, but about human sexual behavior.
In short, where does scripture say, or at least not contradict the statement, that homosexuality is a moral behavior? Where is the innovation of ordaining women supported in scripture or Lutheran orthodoxy?

Jon
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🍿
 
EvangelCatholic said:
As I point out, I am not well-versed in women ordination and gay ordination/ marriage. What I hope to do with this info on Bishop Stendahl is expose readers to Christian theologians who seek discernment in Scripture and God’s Will.
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And yet it is the Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth, not “Christian theologians”. Your statement implies that you wish to expose us to something we have not yet experienced: “theologians who seek discernment in Scripture and God’s will.” Do you believe this is somehow unique to your brand of Lutheranism? When “Christian theologians” make personal interpretations apart from the faith that produced the Scriptures they inevitably fall into error, as did poor Bishop Stendahl.
EvangelCatholic said:
Also those unfamiliar with the ELCA may gain insight by understanding our bishops.
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Yes, thank you. I have gained insight and am very happy that I am not a part of the faith tradition that calls themselves ELCA.
 
To understand Bishop Stendahl wisdom, devotion and humility:
One Good Friday in the 1980s or early 1990s, Krister preached the entire Seven Last Words of Jesus service at Harvard’s Memorial Church. After the service, one of us asked him whether he might be willing to part with a copy of his text. “I had no notes,” he said simply.
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Two months ago, barely mobile and already on the short road to death, Krister Stendahl presided at the memorial service of Dead Sea Scrolls scholar John Strugnell, who had been his colleague at Harvard. In attendance was Archbishop Demetrios, Primate of the Greek Orthodox Church in America, who as Demetrios Trakatellis had been a graduate student in New Testament during Stendahl’s tenure. Krister, scheduled to give the final benediction, spontaneously ceded the place to the Archbishop and placed him at the center of the celebration, a small but powerful gesture, typical of Krister, ecumenical and gracious to the end.
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JonNC said:
That’s great. We as Lutherans need to continue closer ties to Orthodoxy.

Jon
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Yes, Stendahl was a priest, bishop, scholar.

What is your response to Bishop Stendahl
“argument that because Jesus called only male apostles, only males may become priests. “By what right is this act made binding in ministry and interpreted that only males may serve in ministry?” he asks. In the cultural context in which apostles were identified with the 12 tribes of Israel, he notes, what other cultural alternative was there? He confessed in a talk to a gathering of new bishops at General Theological Seminary that he was tempted to ask Cardinal Joseph Bernardin how many Catholic priests were Jews. Wouldn’t Jesus’ Jewishness, he asked, rank more highly than his maleness in traits of the incarnation?”
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EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, Stendahl was a priest, bishop, scholar.

What is your response to Bishop Stendahl
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Sounds like a lot of “what if” going on. What if there was never a resurrection? Would we still have mercy from the death of Christ? No need to answer that. My point is this, was there ever a time in all of the Sacred Scriptures did you ever read about a female priest? Is there anywhere in Scripture we can read the homosexuality is a moral and just act?

I am sure Mr. Stendahl is a God loving man, yet guiding people away from the cross will make me question his teachings. 🤷
 
Krister Stendahl:
Ultimately, I came to learn that that there are at least three quite distinct symbol systems, or paradigms, for Christian theology coming out of the Bible. One is dominated by the idea of God as the judge, and what is going to happen to us on the day of judgment. Everything circles around God’s judgment, and sin and forgiveness and redemption and the cross—that’s Western Christendom in Catholicism and Lutheranism. Then there is God as Lord. And that has to do with God as Lord and we as subject, and the world is full of covenants—that’s Calvin and also the Jewish tradition. And that model gave the basic model for the federal structure of the United States; foedus in Latin means covenant. It’s the sociopolitical model of God.

And then there is the third, the Johannine. It’s all about life. Sin is sickness, not primary guilt. It’s not about obedience and Lordship. It’s life: He came that they should have life, and have it abundantly. In him was life. Out of his innermost parts, streams of living water will flow (John 7). And everything is to be born anew, born out of water and blood (John 3). That’s John, and that’s Eastern Christendom. There is no crucifix in an Eastern church; there is the icon, where the divine life shines through the human image.
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hds.harvard.edu/news-events/harvard-divinity-bulletin/articles/why-i-love-the-bible
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, Stendahl was a priest, bishop, scholar.

What is your response to Bishop Stendahl
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My response is simple. Good Bishop, in the nearly 2000 years of the Church, be it east of west, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, or Evangelical Catholic, no where does the historic Church interpret Christ’s actions in the way you do here, sir. The universal Church with unanimity professes that His clergy reflect His choice, that as males. Further, St. Paul makes no distinction about which race can or cannot speak in the Church, but only the appropriate role of each gender in the Church.
Even if there were a chance that, maybe, women could be ordained without evidence from scripture or the Tradition of the Church, including our confessions, why would we not err on the side of caution, to protect the validity of our clergy and the word and sacraments He calls them to pronounce and provide in His name?

Jon

EC,
I’ve answered yours. Please answer mine.
 
"These are three different ways of thinking about God. What a richness. And you don’t see them until you lay them apart. Of course they flow into one another, in all our traditions. But it is by studying the scriptures to get the integrity of each of these that they come to life. It is a little like the Gospels: if you mix them, you don’t get the feel of how many theologies there are in scripture . . .
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Do you remember how it is with the oneness in John 17, where Jesus prays that they all be one? And you, father, are in me, and I am in you, and they are in us. It’s like the biological world: Everything is interdependent. It’s a giving and a receiving. It’s a oneness that is not a glob, but a living interplay. Plural."
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JonNC said:
I’ve answered yours. Please answer mine.
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EC, I’d like to hear your answer as well. While you’re good at telling others to change from their historic teaching, explanations on why this change is a better Gospel haven’t been forthcoming.
 
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