La ilaha illAllah - No God except Allah?

[Analyzer]

Jesus prayed to God, His Father, as the Son in flesh.

**Exactly, Jesus did pray to his metaphorical Father (God) because Jesus was not his own Father (God). Was he, then? If yes then you are not a Catholic.

The Father = God Almighty
Jesus’ Father is Father of Adam, you me and all too.
Jesus is Son in Flesh (metaphorically) as Adam and all Jews are sons of God.
All Jews are called gods by God in OT ( Book Of Psalms

• Pslam 81:6 of Douay Rheims Latin Catholic Bible):

" I [God] have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High"**

drbo.org/chapter/21081.htm

Even Jesus quoted this to refute the false charge of divinity posed by a bunch of lying Jews (John 10: 23-39)​

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Multiple face Muslim poster (maybe I should call you half Jewish because of the nick Aaronjo), I hope one day you will learn to make a point by whatever you write. The things you copy and paste from some sites (these are all modern assumptions btw!) can prove nothing. This reference about the probable place of the Gospel’s composition has nothing to do with the authenticity of the written text.

I should also remind you that Mohammad’s scribes started to fabricate the Islamic scripture in Mecca, the center of Arabic paganism. LOL

Either Analyzer is not Aaronjo, or he’s learned something somewhere in the meantime. Same general nonsense, but now more coherent.

 

[Angelos]

Exactly, Jesus did pray to his metaphorical Father (God) because Jesus was not his own Father (God). Was he, then? If yes then you are not a Catholic.

The Father = God Almighty
Jesus’ Father is Father of Adam, you me and all too.
Jesus is Son in Flesh (metaphorically) as Adam and all Jews are sons of God.

This is a lie because Jesus always talked of God as His own Father and never referred to God as OUR Father. Jesus Is the only begotten of the Father:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Second, Jesus is the Son of God (Father). He is God the Son

All Jews are called gods by God in OT ( Book Of Psalms

• Pslam 81:6 of Douay Rheims Latin Catholic Bible):

6 I [God] have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most Highhttp://www.drbo.org/chapter/21081.htm

Even Jesus quoted this to refute the false charge of divinity posed by a bunch of lying Jews (John 10: 23-39

Jesus made the following statements to refute the silly comments and allegations of a bunch of lying Muslims:

John 10:37-38
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father.

John 8:58
Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made,** I AM.**

John 5: 21-23
For as the Father raiseth up the dead and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. For neither does the Father judge any man: but hath given all judgment to the Son. That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father. He who honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father who hath sent him.

 

[Angelos]

Either Analyzer is not Aaronjo, or he’s learned something somewhere in the meantime. Same general nonsense, but now more coherent.

I am choosing the second option.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

You have to know atleast the translation of what he exactly said rather than assuming he could have called something that mean something like this or this. And if possible, its always better to go as deep as possible, trace his gestures and facial expressions while he was saying something. We know

again, how do you know that?

that Jesus (a) never said clearly that he is God or asked to worship him. Instead, the gospel says he pointed to his God and our God. But still you claim that Jesus (a) mentioned his divinity in his sayings like ‘I am the way, truth and life’ or ‘I and my father are one’ or ‘neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him’ when you don’t know and YOU DON’T CARE to know what exactly Jesus (a) said.

I am not worried about any association. Does the word ‘Lord’ and ‘Master of the House’ mean the same thing? Simple logic, Unless you know the notion, how could you be so sure of the meaning?

To get rid of this fixation: Aramaic “Master of the House”
ܗ ܕܒܝܬܐܡܪ

Aramaic “Lord”
ܐܡܪ

Even if you can’t read Aramaic, can you see that they are the SAME WORD? It’s the same in Arabic, so I don’t know what your problem is, except the obvious.

If they were free to determine the vocabulary, plot, literary figures, etc., even in assuming situations, where do you think the control and inspiration of God worked?

The Truth of the story.

It is not a ‘must be’, it is natural to expect that quote in all gospels. Because from the very beginning, not only his disciples but jews also was looking for one quote as claim of divinity. If the passsages like ‘I am the way, truth and life’ or ‘I and my father are one’ are truly claim of his divinity as the christians hold today, why wasn’t it an issue among the disciples and how come any of the scenoptic gospel writers didn’t feel like to write about such contraversial issues? So we assume, it is highly possible that such issue never existed, because Jesus (a) never made such claims to mention his divinity. Again if it indeed claim of his divinity as the christians hold today. You said,

“this by no means implies that those Christians had been unaware of the teachings in John’s Gospel”

If so, then the writers did know about these claims but they never thought these claims as evidence of the divinity of Jesus (a) and they never felt it is something that should be written down.

St. Mark starts “The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God”
St. Matthew records St. Peter saying (and Christ praising) "You are the Christ the Son of the Living God).
St. Luke records that St. Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, calls Mary “the mother of My Lord.”

I could go on, but you obviously can’t see.

See, you have to assume the divinity of Jesus (a) from any of his sayings. These words can be said by any messenger of God. Tell me where did you find the claim divinity? What he said in the original language is another question which you already said you don’t know and you don’t care.

The development of the story over time could result the same effect.

The very monotheistic faith of Jesus (a) is what missing in the gospels. When OT says, all the prophets before him said about One God, when the gospels in one hand says, Jesus (a) himself repeated the same teaching about One God many times, when Jesus (a) worshiped and prayed to his God, the vary same gospels gives a developed picture of the same Jesus (a) in the other hand. And the later books in the NT confirms it like in 1 Jn 5:7.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**Exactly, Jesus did pray to his metaphorical Father (God) because Jesus was not his own Father (God). Was he, then? If yes then you are not a Catholic.

The Father = God Almighty
Jesus’ Father is Father of Adam, you me and all too.
Jesus is Son in Flesh (metaphorically) as Adam and all Jews are sons of God.
All Jews are called gods by God in OT ( Book Of Psalms

• Pslam 81:6 of Douay Rheims Latin Catholic Bible):

" I [God] have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High"**

drbo.org/chapter/21081.htm

Even Jesus quoted this to refute the false charge of divinity posed by a bunch of lying Jews (John 10: 23-39)​

We’ve gone over this before: He didn’t refute the Jews’ understanding of what He said, He refuted their acusation of blasphemy. Look at John 10:35-6

 

[Analyzer]

This is a lie because Jesus always talked of God as His own Father and never referred to God as OUR Father. Jesus Is the only begotten of the Father:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Second, Jesus is the Son of God (Father). He is God the Son

**You mean the Father (God Almighty) who somehow “gave birth” to your God (Jesus), is not OUR FATHER ?

How many Fathers are there BTW so far? Because to you the Father of Jesus and the Father of you and all gentiles seem not the same one. Then keep in mind, all Jews are sons of the Most High too…and gods as well, I should remind you.

And if you don’t mind telling us, how old is now Jesus (God)…as of September 2008?**

 

[Analyzer]

**If Adam was not born, then Mary too would not have been born. Then your God (Jesus) too would not have born as a Jew.

So at some point/time in the history of whole universe, Jesus was born/came into existence, as such before his birth as a Jew, there were ONLY TWO so-called DISTINCT PERSONS, as such there was no TRINITY at that time. Jesus to be called an another so-called DISTINCT PERSON of your trinity’s so-called THREE DISTINCT PERSONS, he must born as a man with flesh and bones.

If you say Jesus existed even before his birth, then he was not a DISTINCT PERSON at that time…so again Trinity formula fails.**

 

[Angelos]

**You mean the Father (God Almighty) who somehow “gave birth” to your God (Jesus), is not OUR FATHER ?

How many Fathers are there BTW so far? Because to you the Father of Jesus and the Father of you and all gentiles seem not the same one. Then keep in mind, all Jews are sons of the Most High too…and gods as well, I should remind you.

And if you don’t mind telling us, how old is now Jesus (God)…as of September 2008?**

I wonder when you will stop talking through your Muslim hat. LOL Since I do not use the phrase “GIVE BIRTH TO” while talking of Jesus and God, your argument is aborted. You must be a guy who likes talking to himself for the sake of entertainment

As for your second question regarding the number of fathers, I am once more replying to you with an absurd question. I see that you like these responses of mine and ask for more as a person addicted to absurdities.

How many gods are there according to Islam? The Lord of the universe is different than the Lord of Moses and Aaron in the Koran. Every prophet has his personal Lord too. Muslims have their own Lord. So there are many lords and gods.

Jesus has no age. He IS. So simple.

 

[Angelos]

If Adam was not born, then Mary too would not have been born. Then your God (Jesus) too would not have born as a Jew.

What do you mean? Do you believe that Adam was BORN or CREATED? As far as I remember, your scripture relates the story of Adam’s direct CREATION by God with no human existing before him. Picture this! I am teaching you your own scripture now since you somehow seem to forget it. I hope your confusion is temporary and your statement can be blamed on a slippery tongue.

**
So at some point/time in the history of whole universe, Jesus was born/came into existence, as such before his birth as a Jew, there were ONLY TWO so-called DISTINCT PERSONS, as such there was no TRINITY at that time. Jesus to be called an another so-called DISTINCT PERSON of your trinity’s so-called THREE DISTINCT PERSONS, he must born as a man with flesh and bones.**

LOL I hope you are kidding. If not, I shall start worrying that you have some form of mental disability or psychological problems. Maybe you should consult a doctor.

**
If you say Jesus existed even before his birth, then he was not a DISTINCT PERSON at that time…so again Trinity formula fails.**

I see that your brain cells have failed. Please do not harm yourself. You will hopefully overcome this crisis.

 

[Khalfan]

we care about what the evangelist wanted to say since they surely know more that muhammad…and we read what the evangelists’ disciples believed in as well…now if we prove that Jesus claimed divinity, you will shout “corruption” so it is of no use…and if we prove that the NT and tradition preached the crucifixion, you will still deny it…why? because some spirit made you doubt God’s words…

“For the Message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are on the way to perdition, but it is the power of God to those whom He is saving”

anything is foolishness to you as long as you do not believe God is Faithful and that passage was written long before muhammad.

Now if you want to read where Jesus claimed divinity, you will have to tell me first what do you understand from a man telling a bunch of al-azhar sheikhs that he is the Rahman the Raheem

couldn’t follow the question well? Pls clarify.

how does this cast doubt about who Jesus is??

Thats not the answer for my question.

in the message since after all, inspiration does not mean the authors are robots, that is not one prophet in the Bible writes exactly the same words…letters kill, says God.?

So, you don’t know how the so said spiritual inspiration exactly worked in the gospel writing. Do you?

And yes the NT teaches monothesism as well since the Father and his Word (Jesus) are One whereas Islam teaches that Allah and the Quran are 2 ternal uncreated entities…polytheism?

Remember we discussed it for long time and you were unable to prove how can God be complete without his wisdom? Quran is part of wisdom of God.

 

[Analyzer]

What do you mean? Do you believe that Adam was BORN or CREATED? As far as I remember, your scripture relates the story of Adam’s direct CREATION by God with no human existing before him. Picture this! I am teaching you your own scripture now since you somehow seem to forget it. I hope your confusion is temporary and your statement can be blamed on a slippery tongue.

**You seem to forgot that I am teaching/responding you based on your Catholic Bibles/perspective. You are not done yet with your Bibles yet, before coming to Scriptures of other faith.

No, I did not forget what my Holy Scriptures says about the CREATION of Prophet Adam. (PBUH).

I was talking to you from Biblical pointview.

By now I am sure you know that all Jews were once called by God of the OT as “gods”** and even your Jesus too called them “gods” and even to those Jews of his time who were falsely accusing him of blasphemy. Jews are also called sons of the most High in the OT:

Psalm 81:6
6 I [God] have said: You [Jews] are gods and all of you the sons of the most High – Book Of Psalms - Psalm 81:6

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=81&l=6&f=s#x

Obviously “the most High” means God Almighty not Jesus Christ. Otherwise all Jews become sons of Jesus Christ, then. Even from your Trinitarian standpoint, since Jesus despite being SECOND and DISTINCT PERSON, is ONE with the FATHER (as you will say Jesus and Father are one) and furthermore, since to you, Jesus is UNCREATED then: Jews are basically the sons of Jesus Christ at the time when he (Jesus) was not born as a Jew.

If you say, no, then please tell me, are there TWO UNCREATED GODS then?:

The one UNCREATED GOD who said: “all Jews are gods and sons of the most High”

and

the other UNCREATED GOD is Jesus Christ, who gave birth to no Jewish son or daughter but once born HIMELF or with the aide of HOLY GHOST through HIS own female CREATION- Mary, then?

Is this conculsion, my own creation? No. I am simply analyzing your Trinity and those verses of your Catholic Bible you Catholics often quote to prove the so-called Divinity of Jesus.

No wonder why people from Christiandom are discarding Trinity as a fabrication/un-BIblical.

If all Jews were sons of God (in Biblical terms), then why not Adam be called an another son of God? Was he different than Jews? Or are Jews not progeny of same Adam?

ISo Biblcially speaking, if Adam can be called Son of God, then was he (Adam) actually CREATED or BORN, then? (in Biblical terms/standpoint)​

 

[Angelos]

You seem to forgot that I am teaching/responding you based on your Catholic Bibles/perspective. You are not done yet with your Bibles yet, before coming to Scriptures of other faith.

You seem to forget that we have already and repetitively rebutted silly allegations derived from your deliberate misunderstanding and aim to distort our scripture. You have lost so many rounds here and made yourself a dishonest Muslim poster.

No, I did not forget what my Holy Scriptures says about the CREATION of Prophet Adam. (PBUH).

I was talking to you from Biblical pointview.

Then you must remember that the Bible relates the story of Adam’s CREATION in the book of Genesis and never teaches that Adam was born of God! It is unbelievable that you are still resorting to lies and denial when everything is so clear!

By now I am sure you know that all Jews were once called by God of the OT as “gods” and even your Jesus too called them “gods” and even to those Jews of his time who were falsely accusing him of blasphemy. Jews are also called sons of the most High in the OT:

Psalm 81:6
6 I [God] have said: You [Jews] are gods and all of you the sons of the most High – Book Of Psalms - Psalm 81:6

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=81&l=6&f=s#x

Obviously “the most High” means God Almighty not Jesus Christ. Otherwise all Jews become sons of Jesus Christ, then. Even from your Trinitarian standpoint, since Jesus despite being SECOND and DISTINCT PERSON, is ONE with the FATHER (as you will say Jesus and Father are one) and furthermore, since to you, Jesus is UNCREATED then: Jews are basically the sons of Jesus Christ at the time when he (Jesus) was not born as a Jew.

I am repeating this for the third time: Jesus did NOT refer to Holy Scripture to deny His divine personality, but to teach people that His claims are confirmed by God. Who endorses the teaching that Jesus is His only begotten Son is God Himself, as a result of which those Jews cannot consider Jesus blasphemous. Jesus never made a concession, but insisted that He was in the Father and the Father was in Him. So simple!

If you say, no, then please tell me, are there TWO UNCREATED GODS then?:

The one UNCREATED GOD who said: “all Jews are gods and sons of the most High”

and

the other UNCREATED GOD is Jesus Christ, who gave birth to no Jewish son or daughter but once born HIMELF or with the aide of HOLY GHOST through HIS own female CREATION- Mary, then?

Is this conculsion, my own creation? No. I am simply analyzing your Trinity and those verses of your Catholic Bible you Catholics often quote to prove the so-called Divinity of Jesus.

LOL Oh my gracious Lord! You are in the grip of another crisis now.

Since what you state about the Trinitarian doctrine and Jesus’ divinity goes against the teachings of Jesus’ Church, you are apparently a liar. Your stupid conclusions make us laugh anyway. Thanks.

No wonder why people from Christiandom are discarding Trinity as a fabrication/un-BIblical.

Well, this is a pointless argument LOL I also know many “Muslims” who consider the Koran a clear fabrication and Mohammad a liar. What does this prove? Nothing. I am a Christian who believes in the most holy Trinity. What some other so-called Christians supposedly believe is of no importance.

If all Jews were sons of God (in Biblical terms), then why not Adam be called an another son of God? Was he different than Jews? Or are Jews not progeny of same Adam?

ISo Biblcially speaking, if Adam can be called Son of God, then was he (Adam) actually CREATED or BORN, then? (in Biblical terms/standpoint)

Here is another crisis you are going through.

Adam was not born of God since he was not the eternal and uncreated Word (Logos), through whom all things were made. The phrase “Son of God” denotes divinity only when applied to Jesus, who is the uncreated Logos in flesh.

 

[cathopologist]

**They are foolish. They won’t listen to me at all and may punish me too. But how long they can stop people from chosing their faith. A mUslim is a Muslim who wants to be a Muslim. A christian is a christian who wants to be a Christian. That is the fact. Those bad laws won’t help any one. That will damage the cause of the Malayasion government. That is not Islamic law. It is the Malayan law. **

I didn’t know you had friends in the Malaysian government?

It is the Sha’ria courts of Malaysia that destroys the hopes and lives of Muslim converts to Christianity. The Malaysian (secular) government doesn’t do anything but instead make situations worse when Muslim parliament officials support the bias decisions of the Sha’ria court. I didn’t know Sha’ria law was borne in Malaysia?

Malaysian law integrates Islamic laws and teachings alongside Colonial laws. Didn’t you know that?

 

[cathopologist]

Re: La ilaha illAllah - No God except Allah?
[

Both ‘Ibn Jurayi (d. 767) and ‘Ata ‘ibn Abi Rabah (d.732) wrote:

"I saw the prophet when I was a pagan. He was saying to the people, ‘if you want to save yourselves, accept that there is no God but Allahhe is a sabihe has become a Sabian**(97)http://www.geocities.com/mandaeans/Sabians8.html
**‘Abd al-Rahman ‘ibn Zayd (d. 798 AD) wrote:
**The Sabians say that their religion is a religion to itself and they live near Mosul (jazirat al-mawsil) and believe in only one God. He also wrote that they have no prophet, no scriptures, and no cult yet their main belief is “there is no god but Godthe Sabians did not believe in the Prophet Mohammed(129)
‘Abu Muhammad ‘ibn ‘Ahmad ‘ibn Hazm al-Qurtubi (lived 994 - 1063) states:The Sabians are star and idol worshippersThat is whyGod sent Mohammed and Islam to change the religion back to the way it was before the fabrication(143)**%between%](http://www.geocities.com/mandaeans/Sabians8.html)

 

[dolphinlove]

**You mean the Father (God Almighty) who somehow “gave birth” to your God (Jesus), is not OUR FATHER ?

How many Fathers are there BTW so far? Because to you the Father of Jesus and the Father of you and all gentiles seem not the same one. Then keep in mind, all Jews are sons of the Most High too…and gods as well, I should remind you.

And if you don’t mind telling us, how old is now Jesus (God)…as of September 2008?**

Seriously, what planet are you on? How simple do us Christians have to keep explaining this to you?

 

[inJESUS]

couldn’t follow the question well? Pls clarify.

i didn’t ask a question. I replied to your statement about what we “care” about.

Thats not the answer for my question.

 

[planten]

Seriously, what planet are you on? How simple do us Christians have to keep explaining this to you?

It is your duty to explain the present age of your God. He was born on earth.

 

[R_not]

**They are foolish. They won’t listen to me at all and may punish me too. But how long they can stop people from chosing their faith. A mUslim is a Muslim who wants to be a Muslim. A christian is a christian who wants to be a Christian. That is the fact. Those bad laws won’t help any one. That will damage the cause of the Malayasion government. That is not Islamic law. It is the Malayan law. **

One problem with that premise is the fact that too many muslims in our Western nations are demanding sharia laws to be included in our laws. The inferior sharia laws - the same sharia laws that are attributed to human right’s abuses - that allow the beating of women, the marrying of children, the over concern with going to the potty, etc.

 

[Angelos]

It is your duty to explain the present age of your God. He was born on earth.

Planten, it is your duty to stop asking these ridiculous questions and wasting your precious time