La ilaha illAllah - No God except Allah?

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** I could give an example of what happened to the message of Jesus. It was passed on correctly to the public. Later the devil came in the form of paul and tried to uproot the message. He was partially successful in reversing the message of Jesus.

Later Allah sent Muhammad to re-establish the true message of Jesus. Please note that it was one of the four things promised to Jesus after his prayer in the garden before arrest. Allah sent an angel to Jesus to assure him that:
  1. He will not die on the cross. But he will die a natural death.
  2. He (his soul) will be raised in ranks near to Allah.
  3. Allah will remove all the blames that are put on Jesus by any one.
  4. Allah will make those who believe (friends of Jesus) in Jesus to prevail upon his enemies till the day of Judgement.
Please note that number three above is the one which is to eradicate the bad works of Jesus. Thanks.**
 
**According to bible, satan tempted Jesus and took him around for 40 days. That was bad enough. Chritsians think that was a good thing… Surely not. It is surprising that the Devil is tempting and trying a god. We never heard before that Devil could come near God? Your god is a funny god.

1.He is tempted by the Devil. ( Thanks for reminding us).
2. Your God prays too. We never heard of any god praying.
3. Your god dies too nd goes to hell for three days. (Surpirse)
Forget about our Allah. Please look after your god.

According to our Quran, Devil never came near Jesus or Mary or Muhammad. So we are happy.
**
mohammed got tempted by a devil - then he called it the angel Gabriel and brought hades to earth. It is called islam. and mohammed is still in hades especially after all the things that he did! One cannot just slaughter people, enslave them, steal from them, etc and not be sent to hades. Jesus went there to suffer for our sins and left it after a very, short time, mohammed is still suffering for his sins. One cannot redefine sin as mohammed did and think that it will be ok to just do what he did. mohammed would have been better off if he just stayed a pagan because at least that religion wasn’t such a blood bath of a religion.

You won’t let us forget about allah - your da’wa on these threads is very apparent. All you do for me is bring me closer to Jesus and His teachings.

No allah is not god, allah is mohammed’s alter ego. The alter ego of a guy who was a looter, a mass murderer, a marauding gangster, a pedophile, an assasin, a lustful womanizer, a liar, an enslaver, and what not. But, take note that muslims don’t care about that - they actually only worry about that no one knows the origins of mohammed and his moon god. And all their deception about Jesus is very clear since the truth is coming out what they think about Jesus in these posts from planten.

A good book to read is ‘Understanding muhammad, A Psychobiography’. It was written by an Iranian ex-muslim, Ali Sina.
 
Lets not get carried away falling into an argument that has no end. The point i want to make is that the Catechism states that muslims worship the same God. Maybe it is time to review that. Not only muslims do not share this belief but they reject God and replace him with an idol.

Do not forget that THE GREAT I AM said this:

Isaiah 46:9-10
9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

May 14th 1948. Does this date sound familiar?

Your ultimate goal is to vanish the Jews from the face of the earth but that will never happen.

Isaiah 49:13-17
13Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
14But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

Almighty GOD and an idol the same? Really?
 
But you forget that Adam was not god. Please show where Satan is tempting god.
This was not the point you had brought up in your previous post! You are not being consistent, dear Planten! Let’s see what you stated and bragged about with regard to the notion of temptation in Islam:
**
According to our Quran, Devil never came near Jesus or Mary or Muhammad. So we are happy.**
Do you believe that Mary is God? Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you believe that Mohammad is God??? Please decide about your faith. I had to remind you of Adam’s dialogue with Iblees (Satan) and his failure in temptation since you falsely alleged that in Islam Satan cannot approach messengers or holy people with the purpose of temptation. Now that your allegation is debunked, you are trying to change your stand. Not honest! :rolleyes:
**
You are misinterpretting. The message comes safe. It is announced to followers. The Satan comes to oppose it in its implementation and tries to rub off the message or distort it. But Allah does not allow that too and re-establishes His message back on sound footing.

It is not understood why Satan had to tempt your god? How could he?**
This is an irrational interpretation of the verse with a statement that contradicts what you deny! If Allah does not allow the distortion of His supposed revelations temporarily, how is it possible for Him to “RE-ESTABLISH” His message???

According to that verse in the Koran, Satan systematically manages to distort God’s message, and the distortion remains effective until God intervenes to efface the Satanic verses and give the corrected version of the message.
 
** I could give an example of what happened to the message of Jesus. It was passed on correctly to the public. Later the devil came in the form of paul and tried to uproot the message. He was partially successful in reversing the message of Jesus.

Later Allah sent Muhammad to re-establish the true message of Jesus. Please note that it was one of the four things promised to Jesus after his prayer in the garden before arrest. Allah sent an angel to Jesus to assure him that:
  1. He will not die on the cross. But he will die a natural death.
  2. He (his soul) will be raised in ranks near to Allah.
  3. Allah will remove all the blames that are put on Jesus by any one.
  4. Allah will make those who believe (friends of Jesus) in Jesus to prevail upon his enemies till the day of Judgement.
Please note that number three above is the one which is to eradicate the bad works of Jesus. Thanks.**
If what you state about Paul and Jesus’ message is true, the following verse of the Koran is erroneous:

Surah 61:14
O ye who believe! Be Allah’s helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah ? They said: We are Allah’s helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then **We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost. **

Please get this corrected soon or it will make you a liar 😃
 
This was not the point you had brought up in your previous post! You are not being consistent, dear Planten! Let’s see what you stated and bragged about with regard to the notion of temptation in Islam:
My whole point was “Does Satan tempt God?” You started to discuss the temptation of Adam, when he was not yet appointed as a prophet of god.
Do you believe that Mary is God? Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you believe that Mohammad is God??? Please decide about your faith. I had to remind you of Adam’s dialogue with Iblees (Satan) and his failure in temptation since you falsely alleged that in Islam Satan cannot approach messengers or holy people with the purpose of temptation. Now that your allegation is debunked, you are trying to change your stand. Not honest! :rolleyes:
**Did I say Mary is God? Or Muhammad is God Never. When we Muslims do not believe that prophets are tempted then how can we believe that God can be tempted by the Devil? You do not know what youare talking about. I mean you never understand anything. **
This is an irrational interpretation of the verse with a statement that contradicts what you deny! If Allah does not allow the distortion of His supposed revelations temporarily, how is it possible for Him to “RE-ESTABLISH” His message???
Again you did not understand. The whole thing was explained that the message is never corrupted to the prophet by the Satan. He passes it to the public very well. Then Satan tries to corrupt it or opposes its implementation. Allah doe snot allow that too.
 
If what you state about Paul and Jesus’ message is true, the following verse of the Koran is erroneous:

Surah 61:14
O ye who believe! Be Allah’s helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah ? They said: We are Allah’s helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then **We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost. **

Please get this corrected soon or it will make you a liar 😃
**No mistake. It is perfect description of what happened to Jesus. His disciples were steadfast and did not desert him. That is by the Quran. And paul was never a disciple. Jesus while was alive and working (preaching) had severe opposition so much that he came to know the bad plans of the Jews against him of killing him on the cross.

At that time, he called for help and asked who was his helper in the way of Allah. Paul was no where there. He was the enemy at that time, the persecutor of the Followers of Jesus. So Paul never replied that he was the helper in the way of Allah.

It was the other disciples of Jesus. They confirmed that they were with Jesus. Then Quran is telling that those who believed in Jesus overcame the enemies of Jesus. It is all true and correct. What do you find wrong with it?**
 
Lets not get carried away falling into an argument that has no end. The point i want to make is that the Catechism states that muslims worship the same God. Maybe it is time to review that. Not only muslims do not share this belief but they reject God and replace him with an idol.

Do not forget that THE GREAT I AM said this:

Isaiah 46:9-10
9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

May 14th 1948. Does this date sound familiar?

Your ultimate goal is to vanish the Jews from the face of the earth but that will never happen.

Isaiah 49:13-17
13Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
14But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

Almighty GOD and an idol the same? Really?
Muslims worship God. That’s a Church teaching. Look it up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or in the Lumen Gentium (§16), or in Nostra Aetate (§3). I hope this adequently explains the whole “God or Allah?” argument.
 
My whole point was “Does Satan tempt God?” You started to discuss the temptation of Adam, when he was not yet appointed as a prophet of god.
Dear Planten, you are a funny guy indeed! 😃

You are still denying your primary point and contradicting your previous post. You first said and bragged that Islam did not allow Satan to approach God’s messengers and holy people, which I rebutted with the help of the Koran verses relating Adam’s temptation and fall.

Now you are looking for a way out of my hands by presuming that Adam had not been appointed a prophet before his temptation. Where in the Koran is it written that Adam started his prophetic mission after his temptation and fall? The Koran designates Adam as God’s viceroy on earth! It also says that God’s first viceroy, who could talk to God in heaven, was tempted by Satan and fell. This is an undeniable fact. 🙂
Did I say Mary is God? Or Muhammad is God Never. When we Muslims do not believe that prophets are tempted then how can we believe that God can be tempted by the Devil? You do not know what youare talking about. I mean you never understand anything.
I understand that you inevitably and eventually resort to denying yourself when you are in trouble. Are you serious when you tell me you do not understand why I mentioned Jesus and Mary to you and asked you if you considered them deities?

You are once more contradicting the Koran: Adam, who is believed in Islam to be God’s first messenger and viceroy on earth was tempted by Satan and lost to him! I see that you do not believe in all verses of the Islamic scripture.
Again you did not understand. The whole thing was explained that the message is never corrupted to the prophet by the Satan. He passes it to the public very well. Then Satan tries to corrupt it or opposes its implementation. Allah doe snot allow that too.
This does not change the fact that Satan IS ALLOWED to approach every messenger of Allah and distort Allah’s message temporarily! Your allegation that Satan cannot approach messengers or holy people in Islam is proven false again.
 
**No mistake. It is perfect description of what happened to Jesus. His disciples were steadfast and did not desert him. That is by the Quran. And paul was never a disciple. Jesus while was alive and working (preaching) had severe opposition so much that he came to know the bad plans of the Jews against him of killing him on the cross.

At that time, he called for help and asked who was his helper in the way of Allah. Paul was no where there. He was the enemy at that time, the persecutor of the Followers of Jesus. So Paul never replied that he was the helper in the way of Allah.

It was the other disciples of Jesus. They confirmed that they were with Jesus. Then Quran is telling that those who believed in Jesus overcame the enemies of Jesus. It is all true and correct. What do you find wrong with it?**
Could you please inform me of the Koran verse that gives the number of Jesus’ disciples? Could you please show me the Koran verse where Jesus’ disciples are named and Paul not considered a disciple??? You might have a different Koran indeed!

The quoted verse refutes the claim that Jesus’ enemies defeated His followers. Your baseless allegation that Paul distorted Jesus’ message and became triumphant against Jesus’ disciples cannot be true if this verse is authentic and reliable. :rolleyes:
 
Lets not get carried away falling into an argument that has no end. The point i want to make is that the Catechism states that muslims worship the same God. Maybe it is time to review that. Not only muslims do not share this belief but they reject God and replace him with an idol.

Do not forget that THE GREAT I AM said this:

Isaiah 46:9-10
9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

May 14th 1948. Does this date sound familiar?

Your ultimate goal is to vanish the Jews from the face of the earth but that will never happen.

Isaiah 49:13-17
13Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
14But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

Almighty GOD and an idol the same? Really?
Oh, I wasn’t really arguing to try to win over planten. I wanted to get him to reveal himself more to me. The twisted logic of islam in reference to Jesus was coming out more and more. Other threads he, and other muslims, give us the hogwash that they honor Jesus, but it is apparent by his writings that was just more deception the koran sanctions for muslims to do to us while practicing da’wa.

I will stop since you are getting tired of it. But, I am sure you will see what I am talking about if you post on these threads with muslims more often.
 
Muslims worship God. That’s a Church teaching. Look it up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or in the Lumen Gentium (§16), or in Nostra Aetate (§3). I hope this adequently explains the whole “God or Allah?” argument.
Nickkname, the history of islam, allah and mohammed shows us that they do NOT follow the same God. Those docs you wrote are NOT docs of infallibility. Whoever wrote those docs did not do indepth study of islam, know its history, or do basically anything else. Way too often the Church has tried to appease muslims or just take at face value what muslims told them about islam. Even though the muslim history, and texts, do not bear out that they worship anything close to the God of Israel.

The moon god, allah, is not Abrahaimic or anything else Jewish or Christian. If you read the koran and peruse the hadiths you will find out for yourself. The most that can be said about allah is that it is mohammed’s alter ego, the most you can say about it is that it is a moon god - of a pantheon of gods and goddesses mohammed just got rid of the others.

he almost put in allah’s 3 daughters, but was advised to take them out. There was a statue of allah on the kabaa (and that stone is also of mohammed’s pagan religion - that is why they worship it) and mohammed destroyed that so as to make his new thought up ‘religion’ more like the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity, and also Zorastrianism (of which muslims successfully wiped out).

bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

Some books besides the koran (which is more of a book of battle tactics against us than anything else!)
-The Life and Religion of mohammed
-The Truth About mohammed
-Understanding muhammad, A Psychobiography

It would have been better if mohammed never messed with the pagan’s idea of allah because the people who followed that idea of allah were able to get along with each other, overall. At least it wasn’t a blood bath if you disagreed with mohammed’s remake of allah. Basically, what you see in islam you also see in other fascisms such as communism. It is a ‘either you are with us or you are against us’ mentality.

mohammed had to redefine sin - basically they do not follow the 10 commandments - they are not even in the koran. They have rules in halal and haram, and they cannot do shirk. Anything done to non-muslims is a-ok. That is what I have written time and again.

Our current Pope realizes there is a problem and I have just ordered a writeup on what he is planning to do, it is just that I have not received it yet.

What you want us to do is to blindly accept something without thought. Unlike islam, in Christianity we are able to think and question. And I will not follow something that is wrong.
 
This is another absurd approach from you!
**LOL… When you and your Bibles fail to answer my/other Muslim posters’ questions you reply with the word ‘absurd’ and think you will get away with the serious questions raised. Then you also used the word ‘stupid’ too.

This all shows your frustration due to the lack of your knowledge and lack of evidence in your Bibles, as, the books that you carry in the name of Holy Bibles in your hands, are mostly works of unknown people and then the Chrurch appointed mysterious translators have palyed another misleadfing game while feeding you Pauline theology instead of Jesus’ theology.

in your Post# 173, you challanged that :


Then you must remember that the Bible relates the story of Adam’s CREATION in the book of Genesis and never teaches that Adam was born of God!
**

I knew for sure that your NT, does say that Adam was Son of God. But since laymen like you take the word ‘son’ literally then obviously from your own standpoint, you have given us your understanding from your literal reasoning that Adam was indeed son of God.

Then I quoted how Luke metioned the Geneology of Jesus:
Then Luke tells us:
23 When Jesus began his ministry he was about thirty years of age. He was the son, as was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,
24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, … … …
37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan,
38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the
son of God. – Luke 3

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PWM.HTM

In this geneology of Jesus (which is different from Matthews’ though…you can see the whole of it, in your Bible), Luke tells us that it was thought that Joseph is actual father of Jesus (most probably Jews did not accept Jesus’ miraculous birth) then Luke goes on to say that Joseph was the son of Heli…and then Heli was the son of Matthat…and… finally Seth was the son of Adam and ADAM was the Son of God. Luke did not say Adam was a son of God. If you say that Adam was a son of God like how you and we are then it does not make any sense to use the word ‘the’ instead of ‘a’. after mentioning sonships of all those in between people in literal sense.

So Adam is mentioned as 'the son of God" and not “the creation of God”.

Then Matthew informs us that Jesus says:

9 Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. —Matthew 23:9

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PVW.HTM

Otherwise you tell me when Jesus was refuting “divinity” (attributed by some Jews - John 10), by the expression “son of God” did Jesus mean it in literal sense?

When the fact of the matter was Jesus was only calling himself Son of God, in the same sense God ( in Pslam 81/82) called all Jews “You are gods–the sons of the Most High God”.

So what Jesus is saying in other words is: "if God called Jews as His sons and even as ‘gods’, and learned Jews did not have any problem with it, then why you are accusing me of blasephemy? I call my Son of God because I am too a Jew ( born to a Jewish mother), got circumcised like you, did’nt come to abolish the Law nor the Prophets, did not ask you to convert into any new religion, have been teaching right in your Synagogues and not in any new house of worship …and for Eternal Life /Salvation, I preach you to follow the Laws and Commandments of God. I also have declared that “Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven” and Father is actually your and mine God. With all this which is no different than the teachings of Law and the Prophets, how dare you bunch of Jews with little faith, snakes and brrod of vipers, progeny of killer of the Prophets, accuse me of blasephemy when I did not claim any divinity? I evwen quoted your Law.

But the problem with Jews was his strong insistance to follow the same Laws and Commandments plus additional hardships. They wanted to get rid of him by any means, even if they had to take his words literally purposely (just like how you Christians are playing games with the TRANSLATED words of books written by unknown writers…and attribute your FALSE understanding and reasoning to Jesus Christ and claim that this is what Jesus taught you, when the fact of the matter is: Jesus is FREE FROM WHAT you are TEACHING in his name. You Christians and those Jews who gave hard time to Jesus are on same level when it comes to deliberatly misunderstanding Jesus’ mission. For those Jews (with the rocks in their hands to stone Jesus), the actual problem was the fear of Romans, who could snatch their poltical power form their hands if they follow the Laws and Commandments of God, as, Man-made Roman Pagan Laws and Law of God cannot be followed at the same time. Both are opposites.

On the other hand, your issue is if you follow what actually Jesus taught in Gospels instead of Paul, then how can you get away with the Law and the Prophets? So here Saul/Paul comes to rescue you from the bondage of Law with his pro-Roman so-called apostleship which totally alien to Jesus’ Messiahship.​

cont…
 
**Angelos:

Again, my objection to Luke’s words “Adam-son of God” is because of your false claims. Because my belief is that he was created.

Surprisingly, your Catholic Bible commentators disagree with your false reasoning, so in the same Chapter (Luke 3) they made a shocking news in the footntote to verse 22 :

22 11 and the holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
Footnote: 11 [22] You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased: this is the best attested reading in the Greek manuscripts. The Western reading, “You are my Son, this day I have begotten you,” is derived from ⇒ Psalm 2:7.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PWM.HTM#$3IG**

Same verse in New Jerusalem Bible is:

‘You are my Son; today have I fathered you.’ *[Ps 2:7]

kofc.duq.edu/scripture/gluke.html

Did you see how the text of your Gospel was changed from “with you I am well pleased” to "this day I have begotten you in the Western readings through deliberate deriving ?

Let me give you another example of how Bible tTranslators play games with laymen like you who have no knowledge of SOURCES from where your Gospels are mistranslated in order to maintain fabricated church dogmas/Pauline views:

( The below example is of TWO DIFFERENT BIBLES of same Catholic Church):

In Douay Rheims Latin Vulgate Bible, Luke says:

And after the days of her [Mary’s] purification, according to the law of Moses, were accomplished, they carried him [Jesus] to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord: --Luke 2:2

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=2&l=22&f=s#x

But in an another Catholic New American Bible, Luke is telling something different:

22 8 When the days were completed for their purification 9 according to the law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord,

And the footnote by your learned commentators enlighten us the deception played here:

9 [2] Their purification: syntactically, their must refer to Mary and Joseph, even though the Mosaic law never mentions the purification of the husband. Recognizing the problem, some Western scribes have altered the text to read “his purification,” understanding the presentation of Jesus in the temple as a form of purification; the Vulgate version has a Latin form that could be either “his” or “her.”

According to the Mosaic law (⇒ Lev 12:2-8), the woman who gives birth to a boy is unable for forty days to touch anything sacred or to enter the temple area by reason of her legal impurity. At the end of this period she is required to offer a year-old lamb as a burnt offering and a turtledove or young pigeon as an expiation of sin. The woman who could not afford a lamb offered instead two turtledoves or two young pigeons, as Mary does here. They took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord: as the firstborn son (⇒ Luke 2:7) Jesus was consecrated to the Lord as the law required (⇒ Exodus 13:2, ⇒ 12), but there was no requirement that this be done at the temple. The concept of a presentation at the temple is probably derived from ⇒ 1 Sam 1:24-28, where Hannah offers the child Samuel for sanctuary services. The law further stipulated (⇒ Numbers 3:47-48) that the firstborn son should be redeemed by the parents through their payment of five shekels to a member of a priestly family. About this legal requirement Luke is silent.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PWL.HTM#$3I1

OOOOPS… again, did you see how translators/scribes easily change/replace the word from ‘her’ to ‘their’…and layman like you will never know if you have been just reading any one Bible.​
 
I find it ironic that you are concerned with this when your own koran is full of errors. It has abrogated surahs (it seems that mohammed couldn’t make up its, allah’s, mind).

biblestudymanuals.net/quran9e.htm

‘We **noted the haphazard means by which the Qur’an was collected, and were appalled by the many abrogations and errors which exist in this supposedly “perfect” word of Allah. We came to the conclusion that the book could be nothing more than a man-made piece of literature, which could not stand alongside the great literary compositions that we have in our possession today.’



‘When we read the Qur’an we are struck by the large number of Biblical stories within its pages. Yet, these stories have little parallel with that which we read in our Bible. The Qur’anic accounts include many distortions, amendments, and some bizarre additions to that which we have heard our parents read to us at devotional times.’



’ …that many of the corresponding stories which we find in the Qur’an are from a later date (towards the end of the eighth century, or 100-150 years after the death of Muhammad), and have little to do with Muhammad. They were possibly written by later Persian or Syrian redactors, who simply borrowed stories from their own oral traditions (Persian Zoroastrians, or Byzantine Christians) as well as stories from the apocryphal Jewish literature which would have been around at that time. They then simply telescoped back the stories onto the figure of Muhammad in the seventh century. Whatever is the case, the Qur’anic accounts do have interesting parallels with the Jewish apocryphal literature from the second century C.E.’**

It goes on and it is very interesting where mohammed might have gotten his stories from in relation to the Bible.

BUT!! There is indeed a good reason why mohammed had so many abrogations (or basically he forgot what he had said the previous day). Read the following.

No, allah is not the same God of the Jews and Christians - it is a god of greed, lust, hate, chaos, deception, etc. To me that sounds like the Prince of Lies which is Satan. Are you sure that mohammed saw the Angel Gabriel and not the Angel Lucifer? Since Lucifer is the Prince of lies - it seems more logical to me that is indeed what mohammed saw. but, did he see any angel at all is the real question or did he have frontal lobe epilepsy and only have a ‘fit’? It sounds more like having fits would be less attractive than saying that he was seeing angels and more acceptable of an explanation.

mohammed had suicidal thoughts and tried to commit suicide several times. And his so called hallucinations that he called them sounds more like temporal lobe epilepsy. (Sira Ibn Ishaq p.106) His explanation of how he felt Gabriel had grabbed him and squeezed him so hard until he felt excruciating pain in his abdomen that he thought he would die is a description of this type of epilepsy.

(page 109 - 119, in ‘Understanding muhammad, A Psychobiography’ really describes all the physical problems that sound like mohammed had via his chronoclers)

This hadith sounds like a seizure:
**Volume 2, Book 26, Number 652:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

When the Ka’ba was built, the Prophet and Abbas went to bring stones (for its construction). Al Abbas said to the Prophet, “Take off your waist sheet and put it on your neck.” (When the Prophet took it off) he fell on the ground with his eyes open towards the sky and said, “Give me my waist sheet.” And he covered himself with it.

**

Sometimes mohammed fell and sometimes he did, sometimes he lost consciousness and sometime he did not which indicates he had both partial and full seizures. And along with this epilepsy comes memory loss (which explains him forgetting what he said allah said from day to day).

mohammed was having these seizures since he was a child because his wet nurse gave mohammed back to his mother and described him as having strange behavior and strange fantasies (a symptom of temporal lobe epilepsy).
 
**
Same verse in New Jerusalem Bible** is:

‘You are my Son; today have I fathered you.’ *[Ps 2:7]

kofc.duq.edu/scripture/gluke.html

Did you see how the text of your Gospel was changed from “with you I am well pleased” to "this day I have begotten you in the Western readings through deliberate deriving ?

Let me give you another example of how Bible tTranslators play games with laymen like you who have no knowledge of SOURCES from where your Gospels are mistranslated in order to maintain fabricated church dogmas/Pauline views:

( The below example is of TWO DIFFERENT BIBLES of same Catholic Church):

In Douay Rheims Latin Vulgate Bible, Luke says:

And after the days of her [Mary’s] purification, according to the law of Moses, were accomplished, they carried him [Jesus] to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord: --Luke 2:2

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=2&l=22&f=s#x

But in an another Catholic New American Bible, Luke is telling something different:

22 8 When the days were completed for their purification 9 according to the law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord,

And the footnote by your learned commentators enlighten us the deception played here:

9 [2] Their purification: syntactically, their must refer to Mary and Joseph, even though the Mosaic law never mentions the purification of the husband. Recognizing the problem, some Western scribes have altered the text to read “his purification,” understanding the presentation of Jesus in the temple as a form of purification; the Vulgate version has a Latin form that could be either “his” or “her.”

According to the Mosaic law (⇒ Lev 12:2-8), the woman who gives birth to a boy is unable for forty days to touch anything sacred or to enter the temple area by reason of her legal impurity. At the end of this period she is required to offer a year-old lamb as a burnt offering and a turtledove or young pigeon as an expiation of sin. The woman who could not afford a lamb offered instead two turtledoves or two young pigeons, as Mary does here. They took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord: as the firstborn son (⇒ Luke 2:7) Jesus was consecrated to the Lord as the law required (⇒ Exodus 13:2, ⇒ 12), but there was no requirement that this be done at the temple. The concept of a presentation at the temple is probably derived from ⇒ 1 Sam 1:24-28, where Hannah offers the child Samuel for sanctuary services. The law further stipulated (⇒ Numbers 3:47-48) that the firstborn son should be redeemed by the parents through their payment of five shekels to a member of a priestly family. About this legal requirement Luke is silent.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PWL.HTM#$3I1

The more I respond to your absurdities and debunk your silly allegations, the angrier you get. The angrier you get, the more senseless your approach to the Christian scripture gets. All these are evident in your addiction to digression and repetition of the already rebutted claims. 😃

Maybe I am asking for something impossible, but you must learn to be relevant to the topic. I can only laugh at your posts if you refer to a textual problem in a certain group of ancient manuscripts while you are trying to prove the stupid claim that Luke denied Adam was created! Your posts are not coherent and consistent AT ALL!!!

We are aware of the scribal errors occurring in SOME of the manuscripts and we never try to hide those errors from Muslims or other non-Christians. The errors and textual problems you point at do not change the core tenets of our faith or make us dubious about the authenticity of the Gospels. This is because we have so many manuscripts to compare and find out the variations as well as the reasons underlying them.

You Muslims, however, have nothing of the sort. You do not have several manuscripts of the Koran although your book is younger than our scripture. You cannot even prove that the current Koran was authorised and canonised by Mohammad before his death. The Islamic hoax concerning the so-called preservation of the Koran is based on lies and presumptions.

Consequently, your Koran, which you claim to be in its original form, has several textual variations in the ONE supposed book of Allah. You are aware of those textual variations, but try to hide them since they prove that the men who supposedly memorised and recited the Koran so as to preserve it suffered from short memory and made many mistakes. Here is an example:

Surah 20:70
Then the wizards were (all) flung down prostrate, crying: We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses.

Surah 26:46-48
And the wizards were flung prostrate, Crying: We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron.

Surah 7:120-122
And the wizards fell down prostrate, Crying: We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron.

I wonder whose mistake it was to modify the wizards’ statement. The reciter of Surah 20 somehow recited the same verse in a different way. He forgot to add the phrase “the Lord of the Worlds” and used a different order while talking of the Lord of Moses and Aaron (Aaron and Moses!). How can you explain this mistake in your so-called perfectly preserved book? :rolleyes:
 
We are aware of the scribal errors occurring in SOME of the manuscripts and we never try to hide those errors from Muslims or other non-Christians. The errors and textual problems you point at do not change the core tenets of our faith or make us dubious about the authenticity of the Gospels. This is because we have so many manuscripts to compare and find out the variations as well as the reasons underlying them.


Consequently, your Koran, which you claim to be in its original form, has several textual variations in the ONE supposed book of Allah. You are aware of those textual variations, but try to hide them since they prove that the men who supposedly memorised and recited the Koran so as to preserve it suffered from short memory and made many mistakes. Here is an example:

Surah 20:70
Then the wizards were (all) flung down prostrate, crying: We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses.

Surah 26:46-48
And the wizards were flung prostrate, Crying: We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron.

Surah 7:120-122
And the wizards fell down prostrate, Crying: We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron.

I wonder whose mistake it was to modify the wizards’ statement. The reciter of Surah 20 somehow recited the same verse in a different way. He forgot to add the phrase “the Lord of the Worlds” and used a different order while talking of the Lord of Moses and Aaron (Aaron and Moses!). How can you explain this mistake in your so-called perfectly preserved book? :rolleyes:
** It is your mistake angelos. The magicians fell down prostrate and believed in the Lord of the worlds. That is also the Lord of Moses and Aaron too. There is no mistake. It is your mistake to purpose fully misunderstand things. All the three verses carry the same meaning except one has further strengthened the meaning for people like you if you tried to make mischief.**
 
** It is your mistake angelos. The magicians fell down prostrate and believed in the Lord of the worlds. That is also the Lord of Moses and Aaron too. There is no mistake. It is your mistake to purpose fully misunderstand things. All the three verses carry the same meaning except one has further strengthened the meaning for people like you if you tried to make mischief.**
😃

I still wonder why the guy reciting the verse in Surah 20 did not remember to add that additional phrase and keep faithful to the exact order of the verse in the other two Surahs?
 
😃

I still wonder why the guy reciting the verse in Surah 20 did not remember to add that additional phrase and keep faithful to the exact order of the verse in the other two Surahs?
It will be corrected. Islam has a way with words. Ever wondered how certain surahs from the old Arabic copies of the Qur’an suddenly disappear with modern words? Such things like “beat your wife” now means “reprimand/admonish your wife”? Oh the Qur’an never changes they say:
**
QURAN 4:34** - “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme.

**Wife Beating in Islam - The Rules (Click to watch Muslim cleric explain how it must be done the right way) **
 
It will be corrected. Islam has a way with words. Ever wondered how certain surahs from the old Arabic copies of the Qur’an suddenly disappear with modern words? Such things like “beat your wife” now means “reprimand/admonish your wife”? Oh the Qur’an never changes they say:
**
QURAN 4:34** - “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme.

Wife Beating in Islam - The Rules (Click to watch Muslim cleric explain how it must be done the right way)
Perhaps you are talking about the translations of the Quran. They are just like your bible being translated and improved daily. You should try to show any difference in the original Arabic text of the Quran. There will be no change found in that for the last 1400 years.
 
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